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Old 4th June 2010, 21:14   #31
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I guess at a subconscious level, may be we feel our cars (and bikes) reflect our personality/individuality. Hence one feels touchy when someone else takes a dig at the brand. During the previous centuries perhaps men used to have this kind of relationship with their horses, now vehicles fill this void!

I don't think anyone flares up if his choice of AC or TV is made fun of. They are just commodities!
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Old 5th June 2010, 07:11   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I guess at a subconscious level, may be we feel our cars (and bikes) reflect our personality/individuality. Hence one feels touchy when someone else takes a dig at the brand. During the previous centuries perhaps men used to have this kind of relationship with their horses, now vehicles fill this void!

I don't think anyone flares up if his choice of AC or TV is made fun of. They are just commodities!
Agreed sir,

probably TV and AC prices has come down so drastically that they now are more or less commodities.
However car is still a luxury for middle class (most people in India)
During my teens, i was a Suzuki and Honda Fanboy (used to get in lame and mindless arguments with my friends) But now as i mature, I get to understand that, any car that can serve your need / requirements is a good car. I ultimately ended up buying an i10 as no other car in that price bracket could satisfy my need.

I think everyone will go through this phase of being a eccentric fanboy. But, sooner or later they realize that, irrespective of you being a fan or not, car manufacturers continue to sell cars and make profit/loss out of it. And as this maturity takes over, common sense and practicality will be more important attributes than brand image and fanboy'ism
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Old 5th June 2010, 08:24   #33
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With respect to the thread, enough people are there to argue about it. The fanboy posts are irritating at times. That's about it.

Coming to this point of yours -
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post

1. My car has a soul, it speaks to me when I drive it.
My reply : I have no idea what you're talking about.
That is because, Hyundais steering is lifeless so your i10 doesn't have a soul.

Last edited by kiku007 : 5th June 2010 at 08:32.
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Old 5th June 2010, 08:50   #34
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Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
With respect to the thread, enough people are there to argue about it. The fanboy posts are irritating at times. That's about it.

Coming to this point of yours -


That is because, Hyundais steering is lifeless so your i10 doesn't have a soul.
This thread really is a pointless thread. Cars are an emotive subject, and it is obvious that people might have strong opinions about it. What teambhp provides is a platform where all people can voice their "strong" opinion in a more balanced way.

With that, I am out of this thread.
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Old 5th June 2010, 09:13   #35
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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
How do you know that that person is a fanboy? Maybe he got a Swift that really doesn't rattle! I'm not trying to criticize you or anything but I doubt if Maruti really has that inexplicable brand loyalty. I think most customers are really very happy with them
Like I said, I was loosely quoting some posts from the forum. I agree that Swift is nothing short of a legendary car in the Indian market, inspite of its questionable quality of plastics.

There is nothing wrong with having a few rattles in a car at this price range. What irritates me is that the owners do not accept these flaws, however minor they may be, and would go to any extent to prove that their car is perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I guess at a subconscious level, may be we feel our cars (and bikes) reflect our personality/individuality. Hence one feels touchy when someone else takes a dig at the brand. During the previous centuries perhaps men used to have this kind of relationship with their horses, now vehicles fill this void!

I don't think anyone flares up if his choice of AC or TV is made fun of. They are just commodities!
So you are basically saying that Maruti owners are cheap (who value low cost of ownership), Tata owners are fat (who need that extra space) and Fiat owners are maniacs (who value high speed handling over anything else).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
That is because, Hyundais steering is lifeless so your i10 doesn't have a soul.
At the expense of sounding like a Hyundai fanboy, I would like to say that I actually prefer to have a light steering. It is a boon for parking in congested places.

IMHO, steering feedback is an issue blown out of proportion. Not everyone is an enthusiastic driver who needs precise steering feedback. Even Maruti Swift (which is touted as the ultimate enthusiast car) has a super-light toy-like EPS. Nobody says that Swift doesn't have a soul.

Rohan
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Old 5th June 2010, 09:59   #36
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Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
Who says WagonR is not suitable for highways ? I have driven my Waggy at 120+ on highways, I didn't have any problems.
What to do, the speedo on WagonR does show above 120. Ive seen it myself. And my cousin who was driving thought all cars behave like this at 120+. But I wont still call him a Maruti fanboy.
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Old 5th June 2010, 10:21   #37
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While I prefer certain brands, I don't retaliate if I hear about its demerits, there are ups & downs in every company in every year. Some good models fail, some new models are quickly discontinued. The only thing that matters is that you know everything about the car/brand you want to buy.

I bought the Alto despite knowing that it suffers power loss on A/C & I bought the Palio knowing it was a Phiyat car with bad resale/build etc. Still, I don't know why, FIAT cars have something inexplicable in them. I mean, I covered close to a lakh kms in the Palio & whenever I drive any other car, even if its SX4,Fabia or the Alto, I compare it to the Palio.

Marutis are cheap, Nokias are reliable, Toyotas are robust, Mercs are like tanks is simply gossip. All you need to know is what model suits you on what budget & what features. Brands come later on for me.

Last edited by JustCause : 5th June 2010 at 10:24.
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Old 5th June 2010, 12:14   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
At the expense of sounding like a Hyundai fanboy, I would like to say that I actually prefer to have a light steering. It is a boon for parking in congested places.

IMHO, steering feedback is an issue blown out of proportion. Not everyone is an enthusiastic driver who needs precise steering feedback. Even Maruti Swift (which is touted as the ultimate enthusiast car) has a super-light toy-like EPS. Nobody says that Swift doesn't have a soul.

Rohan
Absolutely. So why should you have to pick on when someone says their cars talk to them. Individual choices vary. So what's the point of this thread?
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Old 5th June 2010, 13:37   #39
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Unexplainable passion? Yes! Unnecessary? I don't think so.

For some, buying a car is like buying some commodity. For others it is an emotional thing. And these emotional buyers will be loyal to their brand.

I totally understand you when you say that you dont understand people saying " My car has a soul, it speaks to me when I drive it." But do respect people who believe that. Sometimes there is a tendency to only believe what we think is right as the gospel truth.

Ipersonally like Fiat and Mitsubishi cars. I don't really know why. Thinking more deeply, I don't really care. Emotionally liking something is a matter of the heart. And trying to justifying it with reasoning and logic is something you do with your head. Is it fair for the head to justify what the heart has chosen?

Example: When you are looking around for a girl to get married to, your head tell you - she should be good looking, sexy, fair, tall, courteous, hard-working, presentable to friends, well qualified, well earning, etc. But it is perfectly possible that you fall in love with someone who has all the opposite values in these parameters. Then you try to justify. Oh, I like the way she smiles, i like her attitude, etc. And your friends think what's wrong with you?

People who are not very emotional about their cars tend to buy Hyundais and Marutis. Maruti fanboys are more of Zen, Esteem, Baleno and Swift lovers.

And of course there are Honda fanboys. My father-in-law is one of them. They are willing to pay a couple of lakhs extra for that 'peace'. Who can argue with them? They are willing to pay for what is important for them, and are happy about that. We might not understand them, but we need to understand that it is right for them.

At least for Fiat, I believe they are priced lower than what they deserve cos of market conditions, and there is no 'loss' in buying Fiat cars.

BTW, my wife has an i10 and my dad a GP 1.2 Active. I am currently drafting a comparison between these 2 cars that i have driven quite extensively.
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Old 5th June 2010, 14:29   #40
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This thread is quite pointless. And the thread starter seems to be contradicting himself by staunchly defending his choice of car.

Besides, reading through 3 pages of this thread has been more painful than any of the fan-boy comments.
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Old 5th June 2010, 14:38   #41
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Quote:
My reply : I don't care how well the car handles, but I ain't buying it if the door handles come off within 2 months. (pun intended)
Thats just your opinion. I would rather buy a car that handles well than be very worried that handles might come off. I can always fix my handles back, but not my handling.
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Old 5th June 2010, 15:22   #42
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Well.... you tend to be opinionated/passionate about something you own if it's significantly better than the pack at something (that may be anything at all but it has to be the best at/for something)

A "Jack of all trades" is not something you can ever be passionate about, but a master craftsman (be it a tailor or a carpenter or a mechanic) is always loved and talked about ie: someone people can relate to and thus be passionate about.

I would prefer a grubby oily mechanic who knows and does his job well and drinks himself silly every night, over a slick worker who tightens a few bolts and runs to wash his hands so that he can be presentable to a client.

My mum would probably never understand why, simply because mechanics are not her area of interest. Similarly I'm always confounded by the fact that she has to dig out some master tailor a couple of 100km away in some god forsaken alley...

So there to sum up:
A Fiat is undoubtedly the best at handling - Inspires Passion amongst people who drive on the twisties
Maruti's give one immense peace of mind and are generally (with the possible exception of the A-star) cars you can't go wrong with - Peace of mind is enough to be passionate about
Tata cars have huge interior space again the best in class by far, gives people a special factor to feel good about - Again reason enough for owners to feel their car is special "Passion"

And to confess, I own an i10 Kappa, and though I do agree with the criticism w.r.t lifeless steering, I was looking to buy a hatch with comfortable contemporary interiors and one which would be the quickest of a red-light, and I do think that my car fits the bill perfectly - and I'm a Passionate Hyundai owner
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Old 5th June 2010, 15:59   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr
There is nothing wrong with having a few rattles in a car at this price range.
Aren't you doing the same as what you accused the Tata fanboys of ? What makes you think rattles are acceptable in a 5lakh car ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr
What irritates me is that the owners do not accept these flaws, however minor they may be, and would go to any extent to prove that their car is perfect.
The owners who have rattles in their cars do accept it - infact there is poll-based thread just for that. But does that mean every Swift owner has to say his car rattles (even when it doesn't) just to humour you ? My Dad has a Swift and it doesn't rattle. But there are other things about the car which I don't like and which I have never hesitated to mention here. And no car is perfect BTW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr
At the expense of sounding like a Hyundai fanboy, I would like to say that I actually prefer to have a light steering. It is a boon for parking in congested places. IMHO, steering feedback is an issue blown out of proportion.
You are not sounding like one. You are one. See how you have turned a flaw (light-steering) in your car into something which you say is an advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr
Even Maruti Swift (which is touted as the ultimate enthusiast car) has a super-light toy-like EPS. Nobody says that Swift doesn't have a soul.
Who said the Swift has a soul ? I recently drove a Fiat and I did not find a soul in it either. I don't think any car has a soul - the car's soul is the driver.

@rohan, if you are looking for an auto-enthusiast who is detached from his cars and is able to look at all cars impartially, you would be lucky if you find even 1% of them among the folks here. Almost all of us here have a special liking for certain brands of cars either from our experience or aspiration and that stays irrespective of all the denials about not being fanboys. Case in point being you yourself - you start off as impartial, but then it just takes a few barbs from others to reveal your leaning towards the slanted-H.
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Old 5th June 2010, 17:42   #44
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Originally Posted by burnt. View Post
This thread is quite pointless. And the thread starter seems to be contradicting himself by staunchly defending his choice of car.

Besides, reading through 3 pages of this thread has been more painful than any of the fan-boy comments.
Sorry to have wasted your time, but nobody forced you to read all 3 pages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Aren't you doing the same as what you accused the Tata fanboys of ? What makes you think rattles are acceptable in a 5lakh car ?

The owners who have rattles in their cars do accept it - infact there is poll-based thread just for that. But does that mean every Swift owner has to say his car rattles (even when it doesn't) just to humour you ? My Dad has a Swift and it doesn't rattle. But there are other things about the car which I don't like and which I have never hesitated to mention here. And no car is perfect BTW.
Please don't take offense by my comments on rattles in Swifts. I am aware of the thread dedicated to this topic.

Like you said, there is no perfect car. When we buy a car, we have to make some compromises.

Everyone has a personal opinion on what compromise is acceptable and what is not acceptable. My personal opinion is that rattles are acceptable but oil leaks and plastic parts falling off are not acceptable.

Cost cutting should not be made at the expense of quality control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
You are not sounding like one. You are one. See how you have turned a flaw (light-steering) in your car into something which you say is an advantage.
EPS vs HPS is an endless debate, and its a personal opinion whether one likes a light steering or a steering with feedback.

Also, EPS vs HPS is a design choice made by engineers, I would not call it a design flaw.

I would never defend a flaw in Hyundai cars in any discussion. Why should I ? Its not like my father-in-law owns that company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
@rohan, if you are looking for an auto-enthusiast who is detached from his cars and is able to look at all cars impartially, you would be lucky if you find even 1% of them among the folks here. Almost all of us here have a special liking for certain brands of cars either from our experience or aspiration and that stays irrespective of all the denials about not being fanboys. Case in point being you yourself - you start off as impartial, but then it just takes a few barbs from others to reveal your leaning towards the slanted-H.
Like someone mentioned above, i10 is a Jack of all Trades. It would be very difficult for a customer to feel passionate about such a product and such a brand.

I've owned this car for just 1 year, it will take more than that for me to develop passion and bonding towards my car and my brand.

In fact, I may never develop that kind of passion towards my car because I no car enthusiast. A car is just a means of transport for me. Unlike many people here, I think of my car as a machine, not as a family member. (I think I am one of those 1% you mentioned)

Rohan
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Old 5th June 2010, 19:12   #45
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So do you accept that Hyundai cars e.g. Santro, i10, Getz, i20 (since only hatchbacks are in question) have...
1. Light steering with poor feedback
2. Ride in all these cars is bumpy
3. They are not as good handlers as say Figo, Palio, Punto

I think every buyer has own specific requirements. Not all of them start the buying process by keeping a brand in mind. If that was the case we wouldn't have had so many threads in "What Car" section.

Just like you believe that Hyundai's "light" steering is good for city driving, some other car owners believe that Punto's steering gives better feedback than other hatchbacks. That doesn't make other hatchbacks any lesser cars. Its a matter of preferences. No one is forcing a buyer at gunpoint to buy a particular brand.

When I bought a Punto I knew what I was getting into...
1. After sales service related issues at TATA service centers
2. Falling body parts (Although nothing has fallen off so far)
3. Non availability of parts

By god's grace (read Tata and Fiat), I haven't faced any of these issues with the car or the service center. So on one of those "Fiat bashing" threads, if I talk about not facing these issues does that make me a Fiat fanboy?

Do I repent my bold decision of buying a Fiat Punto? - No
Will my next car be a Fiat? - Not Necessarily. The car that best suits my requirements would win. It could be a Fiat though.
Do I love (emotions??) my car? - Yes
Am I Fiat fan boy? - No

Last edited by Rock 'n' rollz : 5th June 2010 at 19:17.
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