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Old 9th June 2010, 11:36   #121
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Originally Posted by Gooney View Post
This is indeed a nice topic; but wrong choice of words. Why use the word unnecessary. We are discussing passion after all. And passion varies from null to zealous.

I dreamt of a Bullet since my ears started recognizing the thump of the cast iron engine. I curse my bike at traffic, my girlfriend is tired of the oil stains on my right trouser leg, I hate the fact that most of my Saturdays are spent in the garage.

But would I recommend a Bullet to my friend who is not passionate about motorcycles and just needs one to get her to office and back? No.

Same logic (rather illogic) while buying my car. It is infamous as a gas-guzzler and a maintenance nightmare. "No one in their sane mind buys an used Ford Ikon.", is what most people told me; but I did. Because for me the driving pleasure was the foremost criteria and in my scheme of things, outweighted everything else.
The point I am trying to make is that I have noticed some people having such excessive passive towards their brand that they refuse to accept the shortcomings in their car/brand. This is just my personal opinion, but I have noticed this trend mostly in some Maruti, Tata and Fiat owners on this forum.

Not saying that other brand owners are not passionate enough. For example, just like you, I have noticed several RE and Ford owners on this forum who mention both the pros and cons of buying a bullet or Ford Ikon. And they generally do not get offended if someone points out the shortcomings in these products. These owners are also passionate towards their brands, but have not been blinded by this passion.

Hence I used the word unnecessary to emphasise the excessive passion which some owners have towards their brand.

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Actually it is much more than that - they are proving your point right. By debating heatedly over cars that they had not driven and maybe not even seen in the flesh (metal), they are proving your point that passion is unexplainable.
At least someone agrees that I have made a point.
And yes, their heated discussion does give an idea about their passion towards certain brands.

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
A trouble free Bullet is a myth.
That was really funny, especially coming from a Bullet owner.
But I can bet that if some non-owner made that statement, the humour would have been misinterpreted as hatred towards RE and the member who made such a statement would have been thrashed on this forum by RE fans.

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
One suggestion for rohan_iitr, start a thread Unneccassary and unexplainable passion for Bullets in the Motorcycles Thread. We will have a party
Because of the reasons mentioned above, it would be better if a Bullet owner starts such a thread.

I don't want to be labeled as a Yamaha fanboy (since I own a Yamaha RXZ) or a Bullet hater.

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
But coming back to the topic. If you can call a spade a spade we would be living in a far better automotive world.
This is exactly the point I was trying to make, but your choice of words makes it crystal clear.

Rohan
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Old 9th June 2010, 12:18   #122
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Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
... but I have noticed this trend mostly in some Maruti, Tata and Fiat owners on this forum.
Let me give my hypothesis about the Maruti and Tata car owners. I hope you will agree that Maruti, Tata and Hyundai combined represents 70% (ball park figure) of the Indian automotive market. So, it will be safe to assume that picking up a random sample of Maruti and Tata vehicle owners would represent a random population of the Indian diaspora. Now if you would permit, I will extrapolate to say that these random owners would represent characteristics and mentality of people in general.

Now, buying a car is one of the many social indicators that say, "Look, I am investing a year's worth of hard earned money in ONE commodity from a choice of similar HUNDRED commodities." This in turn translates to saying, "My decision making faculties are reflected in the properties and the image of the brand I choose." Most of us would feel slightly offended, if not murderous, if some bloke comes up to us and says, "Dude you blew away your sweat and blood on THAT!."

And since Maruti, Tata and Hyundai represent 7 out of 10 cars you see on Indian roads, you will see many owners being defensive about their vehicles. Add to it the fact that Maruti and Tata are Indians brands against a Korean brand whose name many people can't even pronounce.

Fiat owners, on the other hand, are of two types - the ones duped into buying it (you won't find many here), the others who are passionate about the Italian company. These people love the brand Fiat and they are aware of the fact that Fiat has always been the dark horse of the automotive industry. It has SO MUCH potential, but poor fellas always miss the train by a minute when it comes to quality issues with their vehicles. Come on, they make among the best engines in the world!

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Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
... But I can bet that if some non-owner made that statement, the humour would have been misinterpreted as hatred towards RE and the member who made such a statement would have been thrashed on this forum by RE fans.
I beg to differ Rohan. The Bullet owners are among the most level-headed and passionate abberations of nature. Make a valid point and they always take it in the right spirit, though not without the initial arguements.
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Old 9th June 2010, 12:32   #123
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Originally Posted by Gooney View Post
The Bullet owners are among the most level-headed and passionate abberations of nature. Make a valid point and they always take it in the right spirit, though not without the initial arguements.
Oh you dont want me to get started on this

@Rohan: I did the trampling over the toes of the Bulleters. Got the only infraction ever and I am wiser now
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Old 9th June 2010, 12:39   #124
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Oh you dont want me to get started on this

@Rohan: I did the trampling over the toes of the Bulleters. Got the only infraction ever and I am wiser now
Definitely not Spitfire. Bullets are best left in the garages and the roads, no point discussing them here. It can be quite draining
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Old 9th June 2010, 13:41   #125
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Originally Posted by Grafin View Post
F60 the F1 car duh.
If i meant the Enzo i wouldve written the same.

Im not looking at the 360 just for its looks(although i like it), but as a complete upgrade over the 355. Beauty is also subjective if i may mention and differs from eye to eye(or generation).

For me the the ugliest is the Ferrari 400i Meera . A total eyesore.

Lambos are good. Correction, they were great until VW took over.
Now everything is done the same German way the rest of the cars in VW's marque are dealt with. Some how the lunacy has been lost in the buy over by VW.
The Gallardo and the R8 are same underneath and the rest of the cars have the same Quattro system Audi developed.
Although i must admit, the Balboni is a gem and the SV a total mad hat super car.
But they nevertheless have toned down from a lunatic super car maker they once were, to Audi/VW's sublime and articulate way of building cars.

According to me , Ferrari has the richest heritage in building cars and sticking to the the same old principles and goals, in addition to evolving with time to make some amazing cars which im sure is not pleasing your senses in any way but is appealing to people like me.

Cheers and i hope that ends the debate we are having, indulging in a subject way off topic to the thread, but nevertheless was interesting to me at least.
yeah ! well , nicely taken !
views may differ so are the loyalties and so is the perciption of the brand . i was a ferrari fanatic but now i am not but you are .
appriciable views about the lambo , i think the same of mine for ferrari ! anyway , a good indulgence though ! hope to continue in some other thread1
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Old 9th June 2010, 14:46   #126
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Originally Posted by Gooney View Post
"My decision making faculties are reflected in the properties and the image of the brand I choose." Most of us would feel slightly offended, if not murderous, if some bloke comes up to us and says, "Dude you blew away your sweat and blood on THAT!."
To a certain extent, I can understand Tata and Fiat owners defending their cars till the last breath because buying a Tata / Fiat car is considered somewhat unconventional, especially for first time buyers. I can understand their frustration when their friends repeatedly ask them the same question - Why did you buy a Tata / Fiat instead of the conventional Maruti / Hyundai ?

But what do Maruti owners have to defend themselves against ? Maruti is the best selling car brand in India, inspite of certain shortcomings in some models.

I can understand that a certain ego factor comes into the picture when people are discussing their cars in real life with other people. But in an online forum, where I don't know you and you don't know me, why should ego factor or excessive passion come in the way of a healthy discussion ?

That's the best part of being in an online forum, we can share our thoughts openly without having to worry about what the other person would think about me.

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Originally Posted by Gooney View Post
I beg to differ Rohan. The Bullet owners are among the most level-headed and passionate abberations of nature. Make a valid point and they always take it in the right spirit, though not without the initial arguements.
Yes you are right. I somehow contradicted myself in my previous post. First I mentioned that RE owners are level-headed who accept their bullets for its pros and cons. Then I somehow got carried away (by my bashing on this thread) and wrote that RE owners would also bash someone who mentions the shortcomings of their bullet.

RE owners are indeed level-headed. At least that is what I have noticed on this forum.

Rohan
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Old 9th June 2010, 17:48   #127
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Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
But what do Maruti owners have to defend themselves against ? Maruti is the best selling car brand in India, inspite of certain shortcomings in some models.
They honestly don't have to. But I hope you agree with me when we talk about Maruti we are basically talking about the Alto, Ritz, Estilo and the Swift and not about the SX4, Dezire and the Baleno. Ok now, cars in India are still a luxury item, they have aspirational value. Owning a Swift in 2010 does not turn heads, but an 800 in 1984 did. We are hypocrites, but sadly in India, bigger is still better. To cut it short, driving around in an Alto does not get you noticed, but in an SX4 would.

We have many options to choose from now a days and we have moved beyond the monopoly of Maruti. A decade back Maruti was THE option for a common man, now he has a lot to choose from and Maruti has become a value for money product for the entry level - a graduation from two-wheelers.

Please note I am not stereotyping all Maruti car owners, especially T-bhp members because I know for a fact that most of them are level-headed people. This is simply from practical observation of people outside T-bhp.

I do not know if I got it through, but just think of Onida's ad campaign - "Neighbors envy, owners pride". It captures the Indian consumers' psyche just about perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
I can understand that a certain ego factor comes into the picture when people are discussing their cars in real life with other people. But in an online forum, where I don't know you and you don't know me, why should ego factor or excessive passion come in the way of a healthy discussion ?
I do not have an "avatar" in T-bhp. I am pretty much the same in real life I do not compare T-bhp to other online forum and hence refrain from taking advantage of the anonymity online forums provide.

Last edited by Gooney : 9th June 2010 at 17:50.
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Old 1st September 2012, 13:29   #128
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Default Re: Unnecessary and unexplainable passion for a car brand

Interesting thread!!!

We can see that few cars have improved their images and few haven't.
Maruti - with Swift managed to improve the image of other cars, eg Ritz.
Hyundai - in terms of looks have taken a giant leap ahead, otherwise it remains the same.

Toyota, Skoda, Fiat, Tata are still the same.

If one looks at Mahindra, they seem to cut into the premium league with XUV but after Duster, we can see few bookings are shifted to phoren brand. Also I felt (we have one in our family) that XUV doesn't feel much premium inside, so it isn't a surprise to me if premium segment customers cancelling their bookings. VFM image is double-edged sword.

I love all my cars especially Fiat but still won't advise anyone to go and blindly purchase the car. I have that 'unexplainable' passion for the brand but certainly not 'unnecessary'.
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Old 1st September 2012, 22:12   #129
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Default Re: Unnecessary and unexplainable passion for a car brand

Interesting topic indeed !

Well i think its unfair to say that passion for these brands is unnecessary and unexplainable.

If you consider the Indian conditions (Roads,Infrastructure,Fuel quality) ,its is not one of the best if you compare globally. No doubt its improving. The quality of vehicles has no doubt improved but then a good after sales network is still crucial. Accidental repairs still fetch a major chunk of revenue for Indian Auto Companies as compared to other countries.Fluctuating fuel prices is yet another concern for Indian customers.Under these conditions dont you think that a brand which has lower parts prices, has a good after sales network will be always preferred? This is why Maruti has been a leader for so many years. More importantly a middle class customer can connect more with a brand like Maruti and Tata Motors. For majority customers its doesnt matter that his Wagon R's Gear lever is 50 Years old , what matters to him is how much does it cost him if it has a problem.When i say that a customer can connect to a brand I mean the customer feels that this brand meets his purpose ,makes what he wants and this converts to passion. Well thats how the concept of Brand positioning has gained so much importance!

Above is just my opinion and i may be wrong.

Finally , we all love our cars so much that it always pinches us if anyones gives a negative feedback about it.Ultimately , Passion is love for something even if it is not perfect! Be it that BMW owner or the auto rickshaw driver !
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Old 2nd September 2012, 01:36   #130
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Default Re: Unnecessary and unexplainable passion for a car brand

Fiats sure have soul. The thud when a door is shut speaks of build quality, the stability on tarmac at any speed speaks of a poised chassis, the rev-happy motor speaks of a spirited engine(checkout the in gear times of Linea/Punto), the steering lets your hands know every time it serves its purpose, the ample space inside gives a feeling that a last minute stretch of your journey won't be bothering the occupants being uncomfortable. And most of all the curves tell you that the 'facts' of the car have been well hidden under its beauty. The last one actually often saves time explaining to non petrol heads why one bought the car.

Even REs have souls and so do most humans.

This is my idea of having a soul, when one does not have to rely on just facts alone to prove one's mettle. The facts should be there but not only on a sheet of paper. The car should be able to deliver hints that they truly exist. Also, a sense is required to listen to that soul. That is why many don't understand, when a Fiat owner tells them that his car has a soul, what he is talking about. It is like throwing pearls to pigs!!

Last edited by Fuldagap : 2nd September 2012 at 02:06. Reason: Grammar check.
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Old 5th February 2015, 13:02   #131
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Default Are we Brand Loyal when buying Cars?

We do see it everywhere, while in discussion, in forums that we do tend to defend on bash depending on the loyalty of Brand we belong to.
This though trend is fading in India but still largely we seem to be brand loyal -committed to your brand and make repeat purchases over time regardless of convenience or price. And to ring fence a loyal customer Companies will often use different marketing strategies to retain loyal customers, be it is through loyalty programs (i.e. reward system, gifts ) trials or incentives.
Companies are breeding this trend because they get customers who in turn become brand ambassadors- This is free word-of-mouth marketing for the company and is often very effective.

So, is being loyal to a brand good? Not a bad idea and you reap benefits IF you get Quality, Consistency, Affordability, Availability and Flexibility at the Right Price.

Here is a study from the US - In the luxury segment, though, the top three criteria for purchase include performance, quality of workmanship and exterior styling.
Unnecessary and unexplainable passion for a car brand-pjbm147b_eyesr_g_20130122203608.jpg

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...57703957447498

Last edited by volkman10 : 5th February 2015 at 15:46.
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Old 6th February 2015, 14:46   #132
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Default Re: Unnecessary and unexplainable passion for a car brand

I'm not brand loyal at all. I care more about the product than the brand.

- Had 2 Marutis in the 90s (Zen & Esteem), but never returned to them after 1996.
- Bought a Mahindra in 1997, still own it. Love the Jeep, but not bought another Mahindra yet.
- A Mitsubishi Lancer in 2000. Loved the car, but didn't go back to the brand because they didn't have a product that excited me.
- Sold a Merc after 9 years of ownership. Not returning to them anytime soon.
- Bought a pre-owned City Vtec, then a Civic. Honda's current range of cars don't interest me at all.
- Hated Tata's lack of reliability & quality with the Indigo. Family won't approve any Tatas in the house anymore.
- Have a Nissan Sunny which we all love.

As you can see, there is no brand consistency in our house. Again, we care about the product only.

My next car will definitely be a brand that isn't on the list above.

Am an admirer of new Hyundais, but have yet to own one.

Last edited by GTO : 6th February 2015 at 14:48.
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Old 6th February 2015, 15:28   #133
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Default Re: Unnecessary and unexplainable passion for a car brand

I think it is not easy to define what is "unnecessary and unexplainable" loyalty to a brand. Afterall, all of us do not choose cars based on the same parameters, so what seems like a reasonable offering/compromise to me may not appear so to others. What may be "necessary" for some may seem "unnecessary" to others. What may seem "self-explanatory" to some may seem "unexplainable" to others.

I haven't read through the thread, but I guess that if I change the title of the thread to "Unnecessary and unexplainable hatred towards a car brand", most of the posts in this thread would still be on-topic.
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Old 6th February 2015, 20:08   #134
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Default Re: Unnecessary and unexplainable passion for a car brand

I am now into 6th car. First was an HM Ambassador - back in 1997 we didnt have much chance in diesel cars and within my budget. Bought a Bolero Camper in 2002 as I needed such vehicle. Incidentally, Camper was launched only a couple of months ago then. Followed it up with an Indica in 2003. That was the cheapest diesel car then.

In 2011 I went for Omni and six months later followed bought a Santro.

Of the 5 cars I bought till date, I didnt repeat a brand.

My sixth one is Tata Zest. This is the first time I have repeated a brand.

I considered Dzire, Xcent and Elite i 20 but finally gone for Zest. I never had problem with Indica. I have to admit that I have soft corner for Tata but while making a buying decision I was impartial.
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Old 6th February 2015, 21:34   #135
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Default Re: Unnecessary and unexplainable passion for a car brand

Good discussion. Recent study are showing that Indian car buyers are becoming more mature. Car buyers are now going for quality, reliability and good service rather than brand loyalty.

Remember reading an article in ET, link given below:

http://articles.economictimes.indiat...st-time-buyers

On personal front, brand loyalty has been on lower end in my car purchase. My first car was Maruti, second one was Hyundai and the third one being Toyota. Even in my bike purchase, it has been different brands which meets my purpose.
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