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Old 10th June 2010, 17:24   #16
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Originally Posted by WindRide View Post
Sorry to sound a dimwit, but what has maruti got to do with this?
Hey, I think you've explained it yourself. I tend to agree.

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Even they have been beaten black and blue in segments where bigger engines are a must (SUVs, sedans,etc).
It might sound ridiculous, but there might be a hint of truth in it. Restrictions on big engines would definitely help Maruti, atleast in theory.
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Old 10th June 2010, 17:28   #17
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I don't think tax benefits are the main issue, because difference is 4%(correct me if i am wrong). I know there aren't much market for bigger engine but there are few petrolhead who would like to have a bigger engine, or there absolutely no market for these cars. ?
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Old 10th June 2010, 17:40   #18
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Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
I don't think tax benefits are the main issue, because difference is 4%(correct me if i am wrong). I know there aren't much market for bigger engine but there are few petrolhead who would like to have a bigger engine, or there absolutely no market for these cars. ?
No. Excise duty for cars measuring below 4m in length and with cubic capacity less than 1200cc (petrol) and 1500cc (diesel) is 10%. (was 8% and was increased to 10% in the 2010 union budget). For other cars it is 20% or 22% (not sure). The difference is around 10% for sure.

So a bigger engine will immediately result in a 10% increase in price, plus the increase in cost of the bigger engine. I don't see higher capacity engines coming into the market. Manufacturers would try turbocharging or supercharging existing 1.2L engines for more power

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 10th June 2010 at 17:42.
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Old 10th June 2010, 17:44   #19
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Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
...but there are few petrolhead who would like to have a bigger engine, or there absolutely no market for these cars. ?
Rahulkool the difference is between niche market and mass market. V6 was mass market in the US; it is gradually shifting towards 1.8L-ish inline 4s there. 1.3 - 2.0 L diesels are mass market in Europe. In India 0.8 - 1.3 L has always been mass market.

There are petrolheads everywhere and by definition a petrolhead almost never finds her car in the dealership.
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Old 10th June 2010, 17:45   #20
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Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
No. Excise duty for cars measuring below 4m in length and with cubic capacity less than 1200cc (petrol) and 1500cc (diesel) is 10%. (was 8% and was increased to 10% in the 2010 union budget). For other cars it is 20% or 22% (not sure). The difference is around 10% for sure.

So a bigger engine will immediately result in a 10% increase in price, plus the increase in cost of the bigger engine. I don't see higher capacity engines coming into the market. Manufacturers would try turbocharging or supercharging existing 1.2L engines for more power
that means for 5 lac car difference will be 50K, then what about the cars converted to this segment like swift and dezire ? they are pocketing all that money rather than giving it to the customers :o .
i won't mind paying 1lac more for a more performance oriented variant of a car, if i am in market for a new car, and i am sure there are more people who will be.
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Old 10th June 2010, 17:51   #21
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Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
that means for 5 lac car difference will be 50K, then what about the cars converted to this segment like swift and dezire ? they are pocketing all that money rather than giving it to the customers :o .
i won't mind paying 1lac more for a more performance oriented variant of a car, if i am in market for a new car, and i am sure there are more people who will be.
Dont think it would be on the car, it would be on the components imported or something similar.
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Old 10th June 2010, 17:54   #22
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Originally Posted by flyingspur View Post
What happens when you stick with the 1.2 ? The i20 M/T = Sir, there is a two-month waiting period.

What happens with you go beyond 1.2 ? The i20 A/T = Sure Sir, ready delivery
Not true. The i20 A/T in Bangalore has a 3-4 week waiting list. Same as 1.2 M/T
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Old 10th June 2010, 18:36   #23
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There is news of VW Polo with 1.6L diesel engine coming to market by Sept.
Agreed they have the Polo Cup and all that. But oil burner is just that an oil burner, Performance = Petrol.

Don't let anyone make you think otherwise.

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i won't mind paying 1lac more for a more performance oriented variant of a car, if i am in market for a new car, and i am sure there are more people who will be.
To be fair a "hot hatch" in the true sense of the word, you might end up paying much more than 1L. Just compare the price of the 1.6 Swift and you'll see what I mean. Sale volume will be very low compared to the "lesser" model.So that means customer will end up paying more.

Again just by plonking a bigger engine does't make it "perform". All the other stuff need to be there too. Better (not just stiffer) suspension, brakes, sharper steering, a better "sound", bigger wheels and matching rubber to list a few.

My 2 paisa
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Old 10th June 2010, 20:22   #24
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I think there is a chink in the law. Turbo-charging, is the name.
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Old 10th June 2010, 20:22   #25
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While there is no replacement for displacement, if a lower-cc engine can be fun to drive for the majority (enthusiasts are a minority) who form the buyers, I think its not a bad idea. Eg, the 1.2K series, which is a treat to drive. And to me, much better than the 1.3 which it replaced.

Regarding why manufacturers won't launch performance hatches, well they know that the segment is niche and won't do volumes worth the effort.

To take an example : I guess some 10K Swifts sell a month today. If 1.6l Swift is launched, how many of these customers would go for that variant ? As it is Petrol variant is maybe only 4K of the 10K. So a bigger engine (lesser FE) would maybe bring in max 10% (too optimistic) of this 4K. Not worth the effort for the makers.

@Rahulkool, be glad that you got to buy a true performance hatch before it was discontinued.
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Old 10th June 2010, 21:24   #26
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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I think there is a chink in the law. Turbo-charging, is the name.
Turbo-charged Swift. 0-100 in 14-point something?

Turbocharged, in this context, means not as bad as it would have been without it!

The point to me is choice. Buying a car in UK is almost baffling. You want slow and cheap to run? fine! You want to leave rubber marks at every traffic signal, buy lots of petrol and gets lots of speeding fines? Certainly! And in between... 1.2; 1.4; 1.6; 1.8; 2.0... a vast amount of choice. If you can't get the engine size in the car you want, you can be sure there will be something similar made by another company that will give it to you.

India does small engines; India does big[ish] engines... but almost nothing in between!
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Old 10th June 2010, 22:15   #27
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Turbo-charged Swift. 0-100 in 14-point something?

Turbocharged, in this context, means not as bad as it would have been without it!

...
Imagine a turbocharged or supercharged 1.2 K series Swift.
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Old 10th June 2010, 22:20   #28
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Watching the technology trend in engines, it is moving in the direction of smaller capacity forced induction (turbocharged/supercharged). Which, in my opinion, is a very good thing. For one, you begin to get the same low down torque and supreme driveability as a diesel.

VW has a very nice forced induction 1.2, FIAT/Alfa Romeo has a superlative 1.4 (which, in top tune, puts out 170+ bhp!). Ever driven one? You should. It is a fantastic experience.

So, the 1.2 norm is fine. Let it be. Give it a few years, and I am sure the forced induction engines will make their way into India. Can't wait ...
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Old 10th June 2010, 22:47   #29
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two words, Exercise benefits and FE.
and the general conception of people that smaller engines=more FE(which is true most of the time)
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Old 10th June 2010, 23:34   #30
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Autocar had a snippet about future engines being 600cc with twin turbos running upto 2.5 bar. Anyway japanese city cars are low capacity ones right?
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