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Old 14th February 2013, 09:15   #16
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Default Re: "Who will tie the bell?" - A question on road safety & discipline

I知 sure many of you might have noticed, that for the entry level hatchbacks, there is no rear view mirror fitted on the left side of the cars. Is it not mandatory (as per RTO rules) to have mirrors on both sides of the car? How can the auto manufacturers assume there will be no safety risk, especially when cars usually are driven on the right most lane? I can稚 believe the auto manufacturers can stoop to such levels just to cut cost. Don稚 they realize that it poses risk to other road users, and also pedestrians? I really find it very difficult to reverse and park if I知 not looking at the left hand side mirror. Absence of the mirror also poses risk of damaging own and other cars as well.

I think its high time for the RTO to crack down on the auto manufacturers who do not provide material as basic as this.
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Old 14th February 2013, 18:53   #17
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It is about the actual punishment. Disciplined policing is required.

Which requires a top down approach. and personnel training.

In Chandigarh everyone follows traffic rules cause policing is strict and bribe culture is comparatively less prevalent.

But as soon as people cross the border into mohali (Punjab) ,the same people become maniacal drivers!

I think the goal of Punjab traffic police is to fill the coffers for their salaries and budgets. There is usually no checking for 4-5 months. Then suddenly for 10 days they start challaning everybody for everything.

Seat belts, high beam in city,pollution certificate,

Pollution certificate challan is a scam anyway as you're supposed to pay a fine only if the vehicle is polluting.

But all things aside ,if the traffic police guys implement fines and make people visit the RTO office evetytime they slip up it will go a long way to ensure compliance.

Our road infrastructure is poor and Bullock carts to Mercedes cars ply on our roads, we need efficient policing and more patrolling by the police.

The so called upgraded roads ' 4-6 laning ' is already obsolete. What with 18-22 wheel trucks and wide body tippers with massive engines bullying everyone on the road
Same is the case with new Volvo and Mercedes buses. the drivers drive like f 1 drivers and routinely push cars off the road!
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Old 15th February 2013, 09:01   #18
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Default Re: "Who will tie the bell?" - A question on road safety & discipline

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Originally Posted by deechan View Post
I知 sure many of you might have noticed, that for the entry level hatchbacks, there is no rear view mirror fitted on the left side of the cars. Is it not mandatory (as per RTO rules) to have mirrors on both sides of the car?
No....

By, AIS Standards (No. 002 - Mirror Installations), either having Driver side ORVM & IRVM or Driver & Co Driver side ORVMs is sufficient for the vehicle.

RTO rules are mandates added over and above these regulations. These are done only when an serious issue / conformance is sought after an thorough investigation is done in tragedies. RTO rules are added by respective state governments (like speed governors, doors for emergency hatches, etc.) after observing lapses. The same are prescribed to the AIS committee that may or may not add in Advance drafts for future regulations or amendments.

Usually any regulation will come into force by at least 3 years after the final draft of the standard is released in consensus with respective industry bodies and are for compliance by the manufacturer. RTOs' issues rules more toward end user compliance.
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Old 15th February 2013, 22:50   #19
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Default Re: "Who will tie the bell?" - A question on road safety & discipline

Who will tie the bell? (around the cats neck?). Mice against the cat.

But there is no cat. But plenty of mice, with suits an ties or other costumes. I suggest the mice first tie a bell around their big heads.

If every mouse followed simple rules there might not be a need for a bell. Or a cat.

All this hogwash about policing and stricter enforcement etc etc is just plain and simple excuses.

The bell starts with everyone on the road.

Everytime you want to jump a red if it rings and you stop, that is a start.

The others can wear the bell around their necks like sheep.

Hmm Perhaps it might really work if we had a dozen hungry Ninja cats?

Only thing Ive seen work around here is self preservation.

Last edited by YaeJay : 15th February 2013 at 22:52.
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Old 16th February 2013, 09:00   #20
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Default Re: "Who will tie the bell?" - A question on road safety & discipline

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The bell starts with everyone on the road.
I totally agree with this.

But you know what, several times I tried to go at a slower pace and if you see some space in front of my car there will be lots of honks from the behind. I got shoutings from the cabs for not taking a left turn (no it was not a free left) when the traffic is less etc.

There is also other proverb saying be a Roman when in Rome. So, which one to follow?
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Old 16th February 2013, 20:00   #21
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Default Re: "Who will tie the bell?" - A question on road safety & discipline

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I totally agree with this.

But you know what, several times I tried to go at a slower pace and if you see some space in front of my car there will be lots of honks from the behind. I got shoutings from the cabs for not taking a left turn (no it was not a free left) when the traffic is less etc.

There is also other proverb saying be a Roman when in Rome. So, which one to follow?

This is what I do, I always have a peek at the mirrors, I always pullup on the leftmost lane for a red ( well as soon as green hits amber). And If there is a maniac at the wheels of a dump truck I move along. MTC are always held up. ( dump truck/tanker drivers have a faster sprint speed once they hit anything or anyone and always owned by ..) Moving to the left most lane helps at most times. Ive replaced my taillights a few times while parked ( parked, not sudden braking) at the red. Some nitwits on bikes misjudge the gap and the capacity of their brain and the bike. I do not know about roman rats! But when in India drifting towards the left helps. I guess we are giving rats a bad name
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Old 18th February 2013, 16:12   #22
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Default Re: "Who will tie the bell?" - A question on road safety & discipline

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It is about the actual punishment. Disciplined policing is required.

In Chandigarh everyone follows traffic rules cause policing is strict and bribe culture is comparatively less prevalent.

But as soon as people cross the border into mohali (Punjab) ,the same people become maniacal drivers!
I agree to this point. I have seen Indians- so disciplined and careful while driving in Europe and US. Simply because of :

1. Stringent Rules (with point system)
: Almost in all these countries, the driver is awarded with 3 points / stars, where on each major violation one star is gone. If somebody caught driving after loosing all the stars (unless its a genuine medical emergency), he will be behind bars. Also the insurance premium for each year is calculated based on the no of stars.

When India start think about introducing point system?

2. Uncorrupted Police Force: I never had a chance to see, somebody bribing or trying to bribe police for a traffic violation in Western countries. The Police is firm, but at the same time they are courteous too (unlike in India). They respect you as an individual and never harass personally to gain money. The objective is maintain the traffic rules for safety.

When will Indian police raise to this level?

3. Systems :
In most western cities, all major traffic signals are installed with cameras, speed limited zones will be installed with high tech speed sensors. Even though for small violations, nobody do the chasing, the bill will come to the residence with the proofs.

We boast we are getting technically advanced....true some of our major technical companies have key role in designing, implementing and maintaining these systems in western world...But why cant its not possible in India?

The story of implementing a new system in India (especially in the governmental level) will be long story.......I will put it in another post...
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Old 18th February 2013, 17:50   #23
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Default Re: "Who will tie the bell?" - A question on road safety & discipline

I feel the root cause is lack of civic sense.

if people cant even queue properly, spit on the road and throw their candy wrappers on the footpath, how can you expect them to behave themselves on the road?

Nowhere in the 'deep and mystic' cultural education most indians claim to posses, is the teaching of public conduct and civic sence given much importance.

The effort has to start in the homes from the age of 1.

Punishment can work but we Indians resent rules. Heavy fines will only work when a cop is in sight.

A better idea ( and its just an unresolved thought ) is embarrassment. Instead of cops, why not have roving squads of traffic warden - 'embarrassors'. And their job will be to get other road users involved in the embarrassment of the rule breaker.
Of course this is not going to work for serious crimes but the target is the majority of minor offenders who make everyone else's commute a royal pain.
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Old 19th February 2013, 14:15   #24
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Default Re: "Who will tie the bell?" - A question on road safety & discipline

Living in one of the worst areas of Bangalore (a.k.a Sarjapur Road area), I can sincerely say that we (including me) are aspiring idiots. We know exactly how to behave. We know ALL the traffic laws. We work in good companies with global exposure. Most of us have even driven regularly in other countries, following rules and regulations. But, when we are in a hurry, we cut across traffic, go and stand in opposing traffic etc. Now, when we are not in a hurry, we shout at another person doing the same and complain that "India is never going to improve".

Some suggestions:

1. CCTVs in all major traffic signals to monitor both traffic violators as well as the cops. Also, in all police stations (including the premises - not just inside the office)
2. Review traffic patterns and assign more cops to certain problematic junctions
3. Timed and synchronised signals - ensure free passage to vehicles flowing towards a particular signal
4. Heavy fines - 500Rs is chump-change for most people now-a-days. Minor violation (wrong parking, violating one-way etc) should carry a minimum of 5000Rs fine. Second instance, double the fine and third instance, take the vehicle.
5. Teens taught by schools to drive (no more taxi driver coaching) - special certificates of completion - eligible for discounts at dealers during first car purchase (or credits in school system)
6. Reduce traffic police involvement in escorting ministers / politicians - they anyways have their x-level security detail.
7. Increase traffic police salaries but reduce the overall workforce. They live a pathetic life and travel long distances to work. 6-8k a month, even some of our maids / drivers get more. And we expect them to take care of a hazardous junction teeming with uncaring motorists.
8. Train traffic policemen in interception. Very often, the violating vehicle speeds away and is never caught. Enough bikes with sirens / flashing lights .Each major intersection with at least 2 interceptor bikes and 2 traffic regulators. Pursue and capture. If captured, fine and arrest as necessary for not stopping at first instance.
9. Use our mobile phones to capture any bribes being taken / offered (even audio is ok). Upload on Youtube, send to TOI - they'll do the rest
10. Recognize the other person as a fellow citizen going somewhere and not as an obstacle that you should overcome. Please know that there could be a baby in the back seat of the car ahead of you which you are tailgating at high speed. Or an elder who doesn't have anyone else to care for him, trying to go about his errands when you are cutting across a red signal. Or even someone who's having a rough day.
11. When you obey, others may or may not follow suit. When you violate, others will surely follow suit.
12. More than all, love your car. Imagine if your car treated you the way you treated it. Imagine it making you run through pot-holes in full speed and constantly making you shout (honk) for no reason. Imagine your car took you to the worst places, put you in danger all the time and didn't care about other people around you and made you the spotlight for all the wrong reasons.

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Old 20th February 2013, 11:45   #25
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Default Re: "Who will tie the bell?" - A question on road safety & discipline

If your little kid or grandchild asks for the meaning of the word "Chaos", you may show the following video:



Courtesy : dariocane (YouTube)


I know its nothing new, most of us is seeing similar scenes, or even worse everyday.

See the buses and a black car parked in the middle of this horrible traffic.
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Old 20th February 2013, 15:40   #26
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Default Re: "Who will tie the bell?" - A question on road safety & discipline

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At least 13 people die every hour to road accidents in the country, the latest report of the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) reveals. In 2007, 1.14 lakh people in India lost their lives in road mishaps
I have a lot to say, so please bear.

Safety is not the only reason why our roads are to be cleaned today.
Should we not consider the road users' health? How much mental stress a person should go through, for his daily office commute?

We don't drive fast because we are in a hurry. But we drive fast and ugly, because we are competing with the fellow road user, in spite of having not seen the other guy ever.

I feel that driving through traffic should be a mundane, mechanical activity for a road user.
A person should get on his car/ bike, and as soon as he gets onto the road, look for the road sign for speed, and hover along exactly at that speed and on that particular lane
If, on an unmanned junction, look for the yield sign and let the person on the round about go through, and then carry on until the signal.
Hold onto the lane that would take you on the desired road after the signal, stop before the zebra crossing, and then continue as soon as the light turns green

Repeat the above steps a few times, and reach destination. Get off, lock doors, and now is the time to let one's mind do creative things. Not while on the road.


I will assume the best possible scenario from my house to office on my bike:
As I get off my house road and join the main road, I see that the main road has clearly marked my lane and also has a speed sign on 40 written on it.
I am sure that there is no parked car on my lane, and no person is trying to overtake me as we are all going at ~40.

Next is a turn left where I look right to see if any person on the right. If yes, I stop and calmly wait as the man behind me is not honking at me.
As I take my left and connect to the ring road, I keep to the right most lane which has bold paint on it saying 60-70. I am going to continue on this lane at this speed as there are no humps, for the next 5 Kms as I approach the KR Puram junction. All the while, I haven't been overtaken and I haven't overtaken anybody on my lane. But the ones to the left were the buses and the slower traffic, which bothered me very little. At the junction, I know that the traffic is a little high. So I still keep to my lane, and when the traffic stops, my bike has the gap between the cars or the buses to trundle ahead as they have kept their lanes very sincerely.

I hit the KR Puram railway junction where there are subways and overbridges for pedestrians to cross, and the buses are stopping at their own bays, one behind the other, and not spilling over to the left most lane.

All along, I was on 3 laned roads and now am entering a 2 laned Whitfield road.
Its easy even here, as there are no lorries or tempo's parked on the left lanes, and the bus stops are carved out of the footpaths so that they are not spilling over to the left lane while stopping. I am on the right lane and travelling a little slower here as there are many intersections where oncoming traffic takes right turns. And for every person taking a right turn, I am slowing down/stopping to give way to the person turning.
Not every turn has a U turn, and there are U turns for every One Km where the roads widen to three lanes each side. There are underpasses and skywalks every 500mts for the pedestrians crossing, and they don't interfere with traffic as well. Office spaces and big buildings have Merging lanes on the left so that they don't join the opposite road as soon as they come out of their buildings.

I am at the Hoodi signal now, and have kept to the left most lane which has been left empty by the buses, cars and AutoRikshaws. I cross this signal, continue further and now the big apartment complex to the left has built a Clover for the vehicles coming out to join the opposite side. And I enter my office building which has a speed limit of only 30. I now park my vehicle, and am all refreshed after the pleasant ride, and all geared up for my work.

I was a little irritated by a person who overtook my from the left, and the other autorikshaw that spewed excess smoke. But am sure that they were caught at the next police outpost and were handed hefty fines.


Now is this all possible in India? Bangalore?
I guess yes. Install cameras at all junctions. They detect high beams, speeds and smoke levels from Automobiles.
Install cameras all along the ring roads. One every 1 Km, and not fixed to one place.
Have a college grad part timer, man 20 cameras.
Have traffic policemen at suitable places so that they have enough time to slow an offender (the part time college grad passed the offender information to the policeman at the next outpost in advance) and fine them without hampering other traffic.
Bribes?
All camera information available on the internet live. The police outpost also has a camera that monitors the policeman behaviour towards the offender.
In this age of cloud, making 1-lakh camera streams at low data rate available to general public might not be a very difficult thing.

Moral public sense and police sense can take us all a long way

And is this costly for a country like India?
I guess not.
My bike averages 35Kmpl. 2 rupees every Km. If 25% of fuel price is tax, then (I am paying 50 Paise to travel the same 1Km stretch of road, every day)
That is for my bike. The same for a petrol car is around 7 Rupees per Km, and a diesel one is 4 Rupees per Km.
Does this not all add up for a handsome amount?
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Old 22nd February 2013, 23:47   #27
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Default Re: "Who will tie the bell?" - A question on road safety & discipline

Hi everybody.
The lack of road discipline in motorists and pedestrians is widespread.To such an extent that it is more of a gamble than anything else to be walking or driving.
Here is an article from today's Mumbai Mirror.A great point made,which everybody knows yet dont follow,is that not following rules hurts some innocent being.
A pedestrian who jumps a divider and cant be bothered to walk to the next signal crossing is equally culpable.
http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Defau...&ViewMode=HTML
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Old 24th February 2013, 20:15   #28
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Default Re: "Who will tie the bell?" - A question on road safety & discipline

I dont think a few of us got the message..

We talk about policing, enforcement and all that nonsense.

I brake for stray dogs (chased by humans), Cattle on Gqz, I also drive at a speed that makes me stop in time but also not over speed. I can brake and anticipate things.

About 4m this evening, a dog and me on my hh zmr braked at the same time. He wanted to cross. ( they sure do got some pads on their feet I tell you).

I was'nt running naked across the street.

the point is, its time to own up and start being an educated adult. In India, even at the most remote corner.

Whats with this bunch of ppl that always like to complain and crib all the time?

Nothing will change. no amount of policing or what ever. Its the mice. very selfish at that. If one can read he can follow rules.
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Old 6th March 2013, 20:08   #29
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Default Re: "Who will tie the bell?" - A question on road safety & discipline

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I dont think a few of us got the message..

I brake for stray dogs (chased by humans), Cattle on Gqz, I also drive at a speed that makes me stop in time but also not over speed. I can brake and anticipate things.

About 4m this evening, a dog and me on my hh zmr braked at the same time. He wanted to cross. ( they sure do got some pads on their feet I tell you).

Yes YaeJay, its a good point....In other countries, there are many accidents happening because of wild animals like deer, moose, elephants etc.

But India its mostly stay dogs and cattle.

Most of them are innocent, but in many Indian highways, there are people who deliberately use these poor animals for creating petty accidents and make money...(if you hit).

Last edited by sunil8089 : 6th March 2013 at 20:09.
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