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View Poll Results: Best driver's car below 5Lakhs (ex-showroom)
Figo - TDCi 58 17.68%
Swift - 1.2K series 111 33.84%
Figo - 1.2 petrol 12 3.66%
Swift - DDiS 120 36.59%
A-star 8 2.44%
Chevy Beat (Petrol) 19 5.79%
Voters: 328. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 27th June 2010, 10:29   #136
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Castrol and not cholestrol - good one!

But you're kidding when you say diesels are not for enthusiasts, right?

Or, you haven't really driven a Getz CRDI or a Swift DDiS?
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Old 27th June 2010, 11:29   #137
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Most of the cars mentioned above come over the 5+ lac category.

I think the poll has to be designed with the On-Road price in Mind.

Getz CRDi is the only car as per me which wins in being the Best comfortable family car as well as the Best Drivers car. A wonderful rocket.

Swift DDis could have been a good car but the cramped interiors.
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Old 27th June 2010, 11:31   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
Castrol and not cholestrol - good one!

But you're kidding when you say diesels are not for enthusiasts, right?

Or, you haven't really driven a Getz CRDI or a Swift DDiS?
The question is where do you want max torque?
Low RPM (below 2000), Mid RPM (2000-4000) or High rpm (above 4000)
In diesel you get max torque at around 2000Rpm and max power at 4000RPM.
So if you wish to take the advantage of downshifting (from 3rd gear to 2nd at lets say 50 KMPh) you loose out on torque.
However in petrol will not not only get the advantage of downshifting but also enjoy high torque in that high RPM range. That means petrol needs to be worked to perform. And if properly used give better results than diesels.

Diesels on the other hand offer better drivability. But that is an advantage to regular drivers and not enthusiasts.
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Old 27th June 2010, 11:40   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
The question is where do you want max torque?
Low RPM (below 2000), Mid RPM (2000-4000) or High rpm (above 4000)
In diesel you get max torque at around 2000Rpm and max power at 4000RPM.
So if you wish to take the advantage of downshifting (from 3rd gear to 2nd at lets say 50 KMPh) you loose out on torque.
However in petrol will not not only get the advantage of downshifting but also enjoy high torque in that high RPM range. That means petrol needs to be worked to perform. And if properly used give better results than diesels.

Diesels on the other hand offer better drivability. But that is an advantage to regular drivers and not enthusiasts.
Quite true. But the turbo more than compensates for it, doesn't it? If you keep the turbo alive i.e stay in the right revrange, then it gives a better acceleration than even downshifting in a petrol.
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Old 27th June 2010, 17:57   #140
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I never knew enthusiasts parameters did shift from torque and tendency not to shift.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
But you're kidding when you say diesels are not for enthusiasts, right?

Or, you haven't really driven a Getz CRDI or a Swift DDiS?
Getz Crdi with over 200nm of torque coupled with that chassis and steering...

I am no great driver, but know my apples from oranges

to each his own then.
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Old 27th June 2010, 18:51   #141
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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
You are so true over here,
For an enthusiast the engine's characteristic should be such that the engine should deliver its max power high up in the rev-range, i don't give a damn about horrific low end(below2.5K), terrible bottom end(2.5-5K), but all i care is for power over the 5000rpm mark, how the engine revs all the way to the red-line, doesn't struggle and should be on castrol not cholesterol which in no ways can a diesel engine belt out.

The insides to which have been very well penned by Mr. Shapur Kotwal asst ed- ACI(and it is his column so he needn't be diplomatic or biased over there).

^^An enthusiast car will always be unpractical so before guys cry hoarsely, they need to check the parameters.
I haven't thought about it in terms of low-end mid-end etc, but I think redlining isnt much fun for me. What I do know is that I find diesels super fun because of the WHOOMPH they can deliver within a single gear. Eg: so I am quietly motoring along in my diesel car in the traffic, when I see an overtaking opportunity or an empty patch of road. I downshift once, and WHOOMPH, I get an exhilarating nitrous-like kick and I am away! (this would typically happen in the 2nd or 3rd gear). Thats it then; in 3-4 heady seconds the gap has closed and I dont get to continue accelerating or upshift. Its all over in one gear. Now I go back to a commuter speed and quietly motor along - with a ear-to-ear grin though! Haven't ever experienced such a kick in the pants in a petrol. Guess the whoomph kicks in at higher revs for petrol engines. And then diesels often have turbos powering such adrenalin rushes
Gotta admit though, I do find the low end acceleration in diesels pretty poor (which is why I downshift before my whoomph I suppose).
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Old 27th June 2010, 19:51   #142
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Well nice poll there , i will go with the Swift ddis for its amazing feel and the rev sound it gives, not to forget its extremely powerful a/c, what it actually misses is nice rubber, the stock ones are really dangerous but i really miss the good old Zen , what a gem of a car.
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Old 28th June 2010, 02:14   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
Quite true. But the turbo more than compensates for it, doesn't it? If you keep the turbo alive i.e stay in the right revrange, then it gives a better acceleration than even downshifting in a petrol.
Does it? I highly doubt so. Well take for example the (0-100) for swift p and d from any magazine and come back. Once turbo kick in diesels are good but not as good as petrol.
(topic is highly debatable = Poll says so)
I prefer swift petrol than diesel (84BPH vs 75). But in figo its the diesel. As petrol is horrible.(68=70) But you have higher torque to enjoy and also minimal turbo lag.

Ever tried octavia RS. Petrol with Turbo. Beats the hell out of any diesel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NST440 View Post
Well nice poll there , i will go with the Swift ddis for its amazing feel and the rev sound it gives, not to forget its extremely powerful a/c, what it actually misses is nice rubber, the stock ones are really dangerous but i really miss the good old Zen , what a gem of a car.
I drive my zen regularly. Really gr8 car. But why missing it? Figo is the new and improved ZEN.
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Old 28th June 2010, 03:17   #144
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Its got to be the either of the Swift's (Petrol or Diesel) as the swift is not only fast but has great handling/economy as well !!

Last edited by maglev : 28th June 2010 at 03:19.
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Old 28th June 2010, 11:15   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
Does it? I highly doubt so. Well take for example the (0-100) for swift p and d from any magazine and come back. Once turbo kick in diesels are good but not as good as petrol.
(topic is highly debatable = Poll says so)
I prefer swift petrol than diesel (84BPH vs 75). But in figo its the diesel. As petrol is horrible.(68=70) But you have higher torque to enjoy and also minimal turbo lag.
Well I think 0-60 is more a paper figure, let me explain why. It involves launching the car from standstill, and a lot of the time taken is in the initial inertia to get the car moving. This is a very theoretical situation unless we are drag racing or something, because most of the time we are already in 3rd gear or something when we want to take up an overtaking maneuver, so the question of how quickly the car reacts from that point, is more relevant IMHO. It does vary from car to car and I would say in the Swift it is something of a tie between the petrol and diesel, and yes I agree in Figo there is no competition, diesel wins hands down.

Well if you bring turbo petrol, then there's no further discussion. But this is just a sub-5 lakhs comparison isnt it?
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Old 28th June 2010, 11:38   #146
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Ahhh ... but I think differently. And, what about the straights?
In straights, yes, P1.6 will beat S1.3. IIRC 0-100 difference between both cars is 1/2 to 1 sec.
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Old 28th June 2010, 17:31   #147
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@sheel...you must get the OHC vtec. You'll love it!
Folks well let me share couple of insights, rather the transformation i have gone through. Right from the start i've always chased driver's cars. In my college days i used to drive OHC 1.5 which well you all know has a high revving petrol engine and torque comes alive after 4000 rpm till the redline. This car was an amazing drag machine and it went berserk when highly revved. I used to swear by this car and thought that driver's cars ought to have high revving engines. I was just mad about Hondas and their high revving engines. I never believed anything can better this phenomenon. Then the vRS happened and well i was overwhelmed by its brutal mid range and decent top end. For me the game shifted from 4K-6.5K rpm (OHC) to 3-6K rpm(vRS). It was at this time that i realized that a driver's car ought to give effortless performance as well rather then just outright performance. And in this regard vRS was way better thanks to its torque and meaty mid to top end band. Overtaking, drags and highway drives were such an eye openers. With OHC it was always a dramatic affair and too much effort to extract the juice out of the car and notwithstanding the fact that you cant redline this machine every time or everywhere. You need the right kind of traffic, gaps and the likes for such kind of maneuvers. With vRS, power was right at the disposal and torque was always present above 2500 rpm. Be it traffic, gaps, highways you just point this thing and shoot. Even if you dont reach the peaky power band, torque was always there to ensure that you complete the maneuver and the overall effort was much more relaxing and confident.
Then along came the Cruze. My first diesel and my first attempt at a diesel driver's car. Before this i always had doubts about diesels being a performance/driver's oriented choice of option. And boy i've been wronged. Diesel performers are like diamonds. Cruze has been like an effortless vRS for me. This had made me say a complete and thorough goodbye to my high revving peaky rpm days. The game starts at 2k rpm and continues till 4.5k rpm. And well such an effortless game it is now. And mind you i've not lost on pace or my ability to drive my cars fast. Its just that my driving characteristics have adapted themselves to torque abundance and power at tap. No more waiting for that peak power band, no more calculated risks, no more speculations. Just plain point and shoot and ensuring that i'm always in the turbo zone. Rest assured that the surroundings will always be in blurred.
Driver's cars are meant to be driven everyday as well and it is with this belief i say that diesel cars are no less then petrols now when it comes to performance, driving pleasure as well as their ability to make cars a sheer driver's delight. And rest is up to the driver, how well he/she utilizes it. Some might prefer the peaky power band, some might prefer the torquey low or mid end, anything which rocks your boat. And no matter how much we talk about performance, at the end of the day it always brings a smile to our face when our pockets are not as light as they are in driving the petrols. I would rather have a car which offers meaty performance which i can utilize daily and in almost all driving conditions and without me having pangs about the fuel consumed or the money burnt rather then having a car which has peaky/outright performance which i might not be able to utilize daily or everytime.
This becomes more relevant when we are talking about cars in 5 lacs segment. FE is a big factor here, even for performance seekers it would be a factor which would be too tough to ignore. And thus i feel swift D deserves the title here because it basically offers just about anything which a driver's car should have sans the outright peaky performance. But then it has what it takes to make your journey delightful, joyful, fast as well as lighter on pockets. I'm sure it is because of these thoughts that swift D is one of the favorites for the best 5 lacs driver's car.
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Old 28th June 2010, 22:34   #148
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@ashish22, perfectly put. And apart from the diesel experience, I can identify with the rest of what you said, though my experience was in reverse (Baleno first and then Swift-G). I want fun without too much drama and without exerting myself (read constant gear-shifts) and I want it at low revs. So, whenever I see the 'revv-friendly' tag associated with a car, it sounds to me more like a drawback, unless the owner is using the car mainly for drag-racing.

With the Swift-G, it is fun if you keep the revs high, but while it is fun to drive that way, most of the time I drive sedately and want power on tap, without any coaxing, which is not the Swift's forte. With the Baleno, I almost never exceed 2.5-3K rpm in the city, but that is because there is no need to. While overtaking manouevres require a downshift (or more) with the Swift, its just a tap on the A-pedal with the Baleno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daewood
There was a comparo done by BSM between the old 1.3 petrol and DDiS and the winner was the petrol.
Hmm. So inspite of Swift-D's blazing past my Swift-G on the highway, atleast I have boasting rights as consolation.
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Old 28th June 2010, 23:46   #149
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
With the Baleno, I almost never exceed 2.5-3K rpm in the city, but that is because there is no need to. While overtaking manouevres require a downshift (or more) with the Swift, its just a tap on the A-pedal with the Baleno.
That certainly brings back memories . I too have driven the two cars you've mentioned quite a bit (the Swift less so), and I completely agree.

Recently drove the Ritz, haven't driven the Swift with the same motor, and I quite liked the way the engine went up the rev-range so smoothly. Lower end torque is no great shakes, but it was quite fun to drive. I believe the Swift should be even more fun, with the lower centre of gravity (assumption). That being said, I liked the Figo's steering calibration, as well as the ride and handling balance more.
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Old 29th June 2010, 11:54   #150
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Only in india will a diesel powered car get the most votes for the best drivers car... Diesel Swift 95 votes, Petrol Swift 91.. but its not over yet ;-). Keep the votes coming hehehe
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