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Old 23rd June 2010, 19:29   #31
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Very well put Sid!!

yes VGT would certainly boost overall performance rather than just plain acceleration. We are talking of new technologies...right?

I'm quite sure that the FE would be better than the 75 hp version..
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Old 23rd June 2010, 19:46   #32
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Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
I didn't care the hell of that 16.1 second 0-100 kmph timing on a "preproduction car that is not in final spec and is being more fine tuned."

Frankly, does an average driver care? No. VGT will improve the characteristics of this engine and will make for a good optimised all round of a diesel hatch for Indian roads.

Want 0-100 in 13 seconds? Go, hire a cab driver.
I agree with not caring for the 0-100 times. However, I don't think we should read too much into the "not the final spec" line. The reasons: 1. Given that the launch is due in 2nd week of July, it is unlikely that Fiat is still planning any major changes. 2. Why would Fiat give ACI to test a car if they had any intentions of making any significant changes? It serves no good to anybody by testing and publishing results for the car which is just a "draft version".

I believe since Fiat gave the car to ACI for "exclusive first drive" fully knowing the amount of publicity this report will get, it must be close to final spec. All they will do now will be minor cosmetic changes and/or some minor feature addition/deletion. Also, it is very likely that ACI mentioned the "not the final spec" line purely as a disclaimer that will give Fiat some room for some last minute minor changes and ACI a leeway in case they got something wrong.

It is extremely unlikely that there will be any changes to engine or gearbox from now till mid-July. In fact, it will be a logistical nightmare not to have the absolute final version ready just 3 weeks before the launch.

Further, if indeed Fiat has any intentions of still improving this car in a major way, they would not have give this current car to ACI. It severely hurts their publicity campaign if the initial results are more negative than they should be. Why would they walk into unnecessary negative publicity and negative first impression if they still had plans to improve the car?

Anyway, this is just my guess and I will be happy to be proven wrong if Fiat gives us a better engine or a better grearbox than what they gave ACI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrack View Post

yes VGT would certainly boost overall performance rather than just plain acceleration. We are talking of new technologies...right?
VGT is supposed to boost overall performance in terms of reduced turbo lag and flatter torque curve which improves driveability. However, ACI report says that there is a big turbo lag and the driveability has improved only marginally. So there is something not quite very right here. But let us not blindly say that things must be good because we are talking technologies. For every technology, there are ways to mess up things and not get the desired results in the end

Last edited by Dr.AD : 23rd June 2010 at 19:50.
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Old 23rd June 2010, 19:59   #33
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Well! 90 odd Italian Horses helped by Pete's can do the trick and turn this little dot to an exclamation mark. Whaddya say?

Last edited by inreverse : 23rd June 2010 at 20:00.
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Old 23rd June 2010, 20:39   #34
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15 sec 0-100; Mr.Jeremy wont like

Still its a big shame,if its true, when one will have to pay 7lac up for such a car.

sidman; how can a cab driver help ???

Last edited by jkdas : 23rd June 2010 at 20:40.
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Old 23rd June 2010, 20:39   #35
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shoot i wish i had waited for this. but then again i can pete my punto.

guys i think if at all the ACI timings for the normal and 90hp punto are off it will be only by a bit. and im quite sure the terrible 0-100 times are purely BECAUSE OF THE GEARBOX.

the first 2 gears are too short so the extra 15hp in the 90hp punto cant really make much of a difference. i think it shaves off the 1.5s in the 0-100 in the third gear. after that in 4th gear you can see there is almost a 4 second difference to 120kmph between the normal and 90hp.

thats just my conclusion
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Old 23rd June 2010, 21:03   #36
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^^ Well, that could indeed be correct, but the fact of the matter is that the gearbox is the sameas the one used in the Linea (with a 0-100 at 15 seconds, pre BS III, now should be even better). Which is why the numbers are suspect.
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Old 23rd June 2010, 21:12   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.AD View Post
The ACI title is not misleading. Nowhere (either in title or in the article) have they called it Punto Sport. They only refer to it as Punto 90HP.

ACI title is not misleading? Well I don't think so:

Punto Sport test drive, review | Autocar India

Guys, pardon my ignorance, there must be some subtle difference between Punto and Linea in suspension, exhaust, aerodynamics etc etc, and could this affect the GP adversely?

Secondly, were they (ACI/OD) used the same "pro" driver for testing both the cars? Driving style could affect the performance and even headwind, though the latter will not create this much of a margin unless you are driving against a typhoon I guess.

Just my 2c.

Last edited by sandeepmdas : 23rd June 2010 at 21:28.
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Old 23rd June 2010, 21:26   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
^^ Well, that could indeed be correct, but the fact of the matter is that the gearbox is the sameas the one used in the Linea (with a 0-100 at 15 seconds, pre BS III, now should be even better). Which is why the numbers are suspect.
again the engine might be totally new and not run in. ive noticed with my punto that even after 500kms of usage there is quite a big difference in the engine in terms of smoothness and acceleration.
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Old 23rd June 2010, 21:35   #39
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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
again the engine might be totally new and not run in. ive noticed with my punto that even after 500kms of usage there is quite a big difference in the engine in terms of smoothness and acceleration.
That is indeed what might be the only thing that may be different, which is why it should be ACI's duty to clarify. For people who drive cars as a profession, they should take care of such details.

Though you are absolutely right, the 1.3 MJD takes a while to settle down.
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Old 23rd June 2010, 21:49   #40
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Owners of MJD and 1.4 Punto's, I think it would be amazing if someone could do a test on 0-100 timings for these and post a video of the same, ofcourse with a properly run in engine. This would clarify many things regarding the confusion over the timings published for these in the magazines.

I hope Punto Sports is truly another model with the said sun roof and the goodies, with even more power for the enthusiasts.
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Old 23rd June 2010, 21:53   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmdas View Post
ACI title is not misleading? Well I don't think so:

Punto Sport test drive, review | Autocar India
Oh! I see. I was referring to the actual print version in the July 2010 issue (just got that yesterday), and in that they do not use the word Punto Sports anywhere. They just call it Punto 90HP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmdas View Post

Secondly, were they (ACI/OD) used the same "pro" driver for testing both the cars? Driving style could affect the performance and even headwind, though the latter will not create this much of a margin unless you are driving against a typhoon I guess.

Just my 2c.
If they use drivers which are not pro, and which are so bad as to add 3 or 4 seconds to the 0-100 times of a car, then we immediately need to stop reading these reports at all. I hope (and am pretty sure) this is not the case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
That is indeed what might be the only thing that may be different, which is why it should be ACI's duty to clarify. For people who drive cars as a profession, they should take care of such details.

Though you are absolutely right, the 1.3 MJD takes a while to settle down.
Well, it is generally true for all cars that they improve after the engine is run in. It may be the same case for Linea times (and many Linea owners have reported this on the forums). So this does not answer our basic puzzle. While the absolute times may change, why should a new Punto be slower than a new Linea?

Further, we can't blame anybody for not taking care of such "detail". All auto magazines pretty much all over the world often test brand new cars, and their numbers almost always are for a brand new car. So the absolute numbers may change (even then, only slightly) once the engine are run in, but comparative numbers should not.
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Old 23rd June 2010, 23:16   #42
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This is car is a Huge disappointment in terms of performance, even a stock Santro is faster. They want us to pay more for this car, if ACI is to be believed Punto 90hp will be 15% more expensive than the current Punto 75hp in same trim levels, with this i do not see Punto's sales figures improving.

Let's accept the fact that Punto 90hp is not a fast car instead of blaming every magazine on sale. Anyone who has driven the Linea and Punto back to back properly knows the turbolag in Linea is more prominent than the Punto 75hp. Torque in 75hp FGT Punto version tails off after around 3100rpm but the Linea 90hp VGT keeps up all the way till redline.

The VGT does not help with turbolag here but does make for a peppy topend, if you have seen the torque figures its only a marginal improvement over the FGT version, only because of the VGT the engine keeps up the Torque up till redline hence 90BHP figure.

The slower acceleration times may be due to different gear ratios or state of tune done intentionally to keep the more expensive Linea superior.
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Old 23rd June 2010, 23:26   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
The slower acceleration times may be due to different gear ratios or state of tune done intentionally to keep the more expensive Linea superior.
I will buy this argument. After all, you are paying about a lakh plus more for a similarly specced Linea. You need to show that Linea is faster than Punto.
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Old 23rd June 2010, 23:45   #44
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It appears Fiat has answered the prayers of a die hard prospective Punto buyer. This is one car for those who WANT a Punto but felt the existing one was a tad low in power. Otherwise paying such a premium, one is better off looking for alternatives.
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Old 24th June 2010, 00:10   #45
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Dear Friends,

I believe we need to hold on our final comments till the official launch of the car and once the test drives start appearing in all the mags. There are reasons why these would definetely not be the final performance figures:

1. According to various mags, the following are the performance figures of Fiat Linea MJD:

AutoCar India 15.04 secs
Overdrive 15.60 secs
BSMotoring 15.92 secs
Car India 11.79 secs (!!!)
Auto Bild 14.30 secs
What Car 15.04 secs

(there's no info available on Zigwheels & Topgear car guide sections)

From the above, except for the CAR India's figs, all the others seem more believable and we can safely assume that a performance fig of 15.20 secs is practical for the VGT Multijet Linea. Going by ACI's article that Fiat has tweaked the very same tuning onto the Punto means that we can safely assume the Punto would do a min of the Linea's 15.20 secs 0-100 fig.

2. A very important point to be factored in is the kerb weight. The Linea tips the scales at 1290 kg and the Punto at 1191 kg. When the Linea can do 15 odd secs with a 100 kg disadvantage, I don't see any reason why the Punto should shave off nearly a sec of the time atleast.

That should give the Punto a more reaslitic time of 14.20 secs for the 0-100 run

3. Last, but not the least, the car ACI tested for all practical purposees wouldn't have been a run-in vehicle and as the article says is just a First Drive report and not a comprehensive test report. Lets wait till they get a run-in vehicle after the launch and then see how it stacks up.

The actual performance of the Punto 90 MJD would only be clear by July end/Sept by when the actual car would have been launched and all the car mags would have had a proper hands on the car with comprehensive reports and a possible face-off with its chief rival, the I20 diesel.

At present, most of the mags peg the i20 diesel to do a 0-100 fig of around 13 odd secs which means it would have a adv of around 1 sec over the Punto.

That 1 sec IMO is hardly a compromise for the dynamically more satisfying and obviously more good looking Punto which can be pushed to the limits.

For those who could go the extra yard, can always get it Pete'd or Kiirus'ed (see Pg. No.103 of ACI, July where the box has shaved 2.6 secs off the 75 bhp Punto for the 0-100 run!!! ) and marvel at the corner stringing abilities combined with the rejuvenated straight line abilites of the Punto...
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