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Old 29th June 2010, 15:32   #121
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I have one more question - Why is Fiat so adamant to not change the gear ratios?

Agreed, it is done for better fuel efficiency, but when it affects the driveability so much why not look for alternate means to improve fuel efficiency than to play with the main chord of the vehicle.

Fiat might argue that FE is what the Junta look for, but Fiat should also know that the Junta will be really disappointed when even the trucks and the volvo buses move ahead faster than their cars, from a traffic signal.
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Old 29th June 2010, 15:46   #122
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This is the Punto that Fiat should have launched initially. This could end up being too little too late. People didn't buy the Punto not because it has a 75bhp engine but because of the following main reasons -

1. So the general opinion people get is - the engine is noisy and the car is a dud with no pick-up at all.

2. Fit and finish - The last time I saw falling plastic bits was in our Amby in the 90s. When i saw them in the Punto, Imaginge how surprised one would have been.

3. A.S.S - Though some have got some good experiences with TASS recently. The majority is still having issues. Down south, the situation is very poor and shows no signs for improvement.

Though all the above 3 have been discussed to death, I feel Fiat should have concentrated on these things rather than just a '90hp' badge.

Sorry Fiat, you're getting the game All Wrong!!
I agree 100% with the above and I personally know at least 4 people who would love to own the Linea/ Punto including me, but don't because point two and three were/ are the main deterrents in all cases. Fiat India have two great cars with great features, handling and ride quality, but parts falling off is just too much to handle and to add to that Fiat have tied up with TATA for service. Having a bad track record in our country in the past doesn't seem to help them either.
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Old 29th June 2010, 16:15   #123
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@thar

I really don't believe that TATA has a bad track record when it comes to service in our country. It's only a few bad service centres which follow unethical practices and dupe a customer while servicing. I personally am pretty satisfied the after sales service, but am majorly disappointed with the quality of TATA vehicles. Absolute rubbish!!
Fiat had joined hands with TATA because TATA has a fantastic dealer/service network. TATA as a company is one of the most ethical companies to work with. They might make bad quality vehicles, (and by bad quality i mean interiors and all, technologically they are pretty good) they never over-charge you for it. The VFM of a TATA car is unparalleled.

Did any one notice that in this particular article they have also said that the bootspace of the Punto can barely hold more than a few backpacks. I am pretty sure it's boot is lot better than 90% of the hatchbacks available in the indian market today.

Well written article, more detailed than the ACI article, but still leaves you with the want of knowing more..
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Old 29th June 2010, 16:22   #124
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Originally Posted by samyakmodi View Post
@thar

I really don't believe that TATA has a bad track record when it comes to service in our country.
Sorry, sir, maybe I wasn't clear enough. What I meant is Fiat have a bad history in our country.
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Old 29th June 2010, 16:22   #125
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Originally Posted by superveloce View Post
Hey buddy, There isnt any tata assurance on the Puntos long life. The punto is designed, manufactured and assembled in India by FIAT INDIA. And the vehicle is just serviced in India by TML. Even warranty, vendors and service procedures are laid down by FIAT INDIA. So there is no point in bad mouthing TML.

The only similarity is that maybe the same person who services a TML vehicle would also service a FIAT vehicle in the service centre.
But mostly in all TATA-FIAT JV A.S.S there is a fiat team to handle fiat vehicles. And they are trained also by FIAT INDIA at Ranjangaon Training Facility.

If you are going to buy a punto then dont let your misconception stop you. But please dont bad mouth Indian Manufacturers. Oh and one more bit of information FIAT service was second from Last; in the last JD POWER CSI survey, While TML was 5th, above GM, FORD and HYUNDAI.
Hey. Thanks for that data. I love punto and its amazing and such vehicles don't actually need an A.S.S if not for regular check up.

But, what I mean to say is, if there is a problem and that involves a service - a physical touch from the A.S.S guys in doing something or communicating a problem or even getting to know if there is a problem that's where it all goes wrong. Replacing parts or sanction of warranty can be done by any A.S.S. But the quality of service is what I'm concerned with as it affects the health of the car.
Also, I say that with personal experience of my cousin's punto purchased at Concorde, Bangalore. It shakes up the whole faith of the product.
Also the Fiat team as you have mentioned are no good either. They cannot identify simple issues and there is never a time any service was completely addressed and there was never a time that he didn't have to go back to Fiat / TATA A.S.S more than once.
As for TATA, I admire the products they offer as I was a proud owner of a TATA Indica DLS before the A.S.S made junk out of my vehicle making me dispose the car at 66000 at ODO.

Brother, I'm not bad mouthing Indian products but about the A.S.S - less said, the better. I don't want to make any bold statements and I don't mean to insult any Punto owner or a potential buyer from my statements.

These are purely my views based on my experience.

As for the JD rating you mentioned, honestly I didn't know that and I'm surprised.
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Old 29th June 2010, 16:24   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samyakmodi View Post
@thar

TATA as a company is one of the most ethical companies to work with.

Did any one notice that in this particular article they have also said that the bootspace of the Punto can barely hold more than a few backpacks. I am pretty sure it's boot is lot better than 90% of the hatchbacks available in the indian market today.

.
Yes TATA is very very ethical company. Proud of them.

Punto boot space is very good. No doubts about that.

GTO'ji !!!! Where is your review? Waiting for it.
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Old 29th June 2010, 16:31   #127
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An excellent review by Motoroids. They have covered almost all aspects of the car. Those pics in the review are really awesome - drool material!

I'm hopefully waiting for the detailed test drive report of our GTO. He might be test driving the Punto right now. :-D

Amith.
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Old 29th June 2010, 16:40   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
I have one more question - Why is Fiat so adamant to not change the gear ratios?
....but when it affects the driveability so much why not look for alternate means to improve fuel efficiency than to play with the main chord of the vehicle.
On the contrary, I find the short gearing is a real boon in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Minimal throttle input and no clutch usage is possible without the danger of the vehicle going too fast and then having to use the brakes. It all depends on what your definition of "driveability" is.

Further, its only the 1st and 2nd gears that are really short. 3rd and 4th are quite good. Remember the Linea has better 20-80 kph (3rd gear) and 40-100 kph (4th gear) timings than even the Verna CRDI.

If you want best 0-100 figures, this is not the car for you.
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Old 29th June 2010, 17:05   #129
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Guys, I took delivery of a Punto MJD EP BS 4 yesterday evening. It has the same interiors shown by Motoroids; the manual is also ref. data of 90HP version along with my (75bhp) model. My car is a May '10 model, it seems, from the VIN.

I request your attention to this picture from the Motoroids article: the OEM audio is not BLAUPUNKT! In my car also it is not, though the Blue n me, USB etc are all working fine. I've noticed this only in today morning

Once I made the discovery I looked through all the documentation that came with my car. The Blue&Me manual is silent about Blaupunkt. At last I found a creditcard-size card that says BOSCH "passport" with an owner's code along with a small piece of paper. The paper has not even a single word in English. Obviously, its a Bosch system with USB support..

The audio quality is strictly average. Though this is not an issue for me (I'm no ICE guy ) But the ??? is, no more "bluepoint" in Punto ?
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Old 29th June 2010, 17:28   #130
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Hi Sandeep,

Blaupunkt OEM Car Radios are manufactured by BOSCH. You can say Blaupunkt is from BOSCH. Nothing to worry, the audio quality is great.
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Old 29th June 2010, 17:36   #131
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@yogeshnaik, thanks bro, in fact I am not worried at all - I use long drives to discuss/chat with my friends, colleagues, family. The point is having a Blaupunkt-labelled ICE helps Fiat to sell more Puntos. You are choking one more USP there.

They did exactly the same thing when they launched the Palio GTX with 32-bit ECU's; Maruti (or is it Hyundai?) began big-time advertising about a 16-bit processor an year after the GTX was launched, only then many a GTX owner realized that they are being driven by actually, 32 bits!

Last edited by sandeepmdas : 29th June 2010 at 17:38.
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Old 29th June 2010, 17:46   #132
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
What happens to the pricing then?
if you look at other FIAT markets.. they have this policy...same variant ,3 different types of engine... all features remaining the same...

an active MJD version will have 3 engine options one 75hp FGT, 2nd 90hp VGT & 3rd 105hp FGT....

its upto customers to decide what they want based on price difference of the engines...

infact, VGT is the most popular version owing to better mileage, driveability & also is more environment friendly with the particulate filter added...
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Old 29th June 2010, 17:50   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjaymugur View Post
if you look at other FIAT markets.. they have this policy...same variant ,3 different types of engine... all features remaining the same...

an active MJD version will have 3 engine options one 75hp FGT, 2nd 90hp VGT & 3rd 105hp FGT....

its upto customers to decide what they want based on price difference of the engines...

infact, VGT is the most popular version owing to better mileage, driveability & also is more environment friendly with the particulate filter added...
For a meager volume of 1200-1500 cars per month, I am not too sure Fiat would want to have so many variants. It just doesnt makes any economical sense.
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Old 29th June 2010, 19:04   #134
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The review from Motoroids was quite good. They good the photographs just right too, the Punto looks smashing.

A properly run-in Punto 90Hp will be a really good car to own, like someone else mentioned, most Fiat engines become a lot smoother and less noisy as the engine is run-in.
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Old 29th June 2010, 19:15   #135
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Quote:
. The first 2 gears being very short had played a big spoilsport.
Because, when people move the car in the first gear, they think that they would have to change gear at around 15-20kmph, but Punto's 1st gear doesn't go beyond 10kmph and the engine becomes very harsh if it is pushed further. This continues with the 2nd gear. So the general opinion people get is - the engine is noisy and the car is a dud with no pick-up at all.
cliffhanger you could not have put it better.the lesser said about the marketing the better.
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