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View Poll Results: Would you still buy a Diesel car?
Yes 527 45.16%
No 551 47.22%
Don't Know 89 7.63%
Voters: 1167. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 8th July 2010, 17:01   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspur View Post
Deregulation is a necessary evil.
Yes! I agree! When most of the world is not getting any subsidies on fuel, why can't Indian economy survive it.

Found an article on the IMF site which says why fuel subsidies are not effective.

Source: IMF Survey: Problems Follow When Officials Set Fuel Prices

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/...007/011507.pdf

Who benefits?
Fuel subsidies affect households in two ways. First, they have a direct effect on the prices of the petroleum products that households consume. Second, they have an indirect effect on the prices of other goods and services that use petroleum products as inputs consumed by households.
For the five countries, the total welfare effectóthat is, the sum of the direct and indirect effectsóranged from 1.7 percent of total household consumption in Mali to 8.5 percent of total consumption in Ghana. The subsidies were progressive in that they represented a (slightly) higher proportion of total consumption for poorer households, but they were badly targeted. Richer households received a disproportionate share of the benefits, with the bottom 40 percent receiving between 15 percent (Bolivia) and 25 percent (Sri Lanka). At this level of leakage, for every unit of resources transferred to the poorest households, three to five or more units are transferred to better-off households.
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Old 9th July 2010, 14:24   #182
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Offroading / SUVs / MUVs = Diesel. Torque right where it matters. Better tank range. More robust. Excellent in load carrying applications.

European cars = Diesel. Euro petrols are lack lustre and suffer from poor reliability / more sensitive to petrol quality. Torque + durability + longer highway tank range.

Enthusiastic driving = Petrol. Petrol. Petrol. The fun of driving a diesel is over, moments after it barely starts! Working a sweet petrol engine to 7,000 - 8,000 rpms on a curvy highway is sheer bliss.

Maintenance : Petrol. Diesels require more frequent oil changes, our market consists mainly of N/A petrols vs crdis and thus there is the 1 minute turbo idling practice, while the long-term reliability of common rail fuel pumps is still suspect.

My answer to the poll : Depends on the intended application and varies from car to car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
From multiple sources I have learnt that for Swift Diesel (or for that matter any high torque Diesel engine) there's no much drop in mileage even if we put a/c. Though for the Petrol version, a/c does eat up a great portion of ur precious fuel.
Fact is, diesel engine FE is less sensitive to load than petrols. I can drive the pants off my diesel car all day, and still come home with only 10 - 15% higher consumption. With a petrol, say the OHC Vtec, I've seen the FE dip to 5 kpl (from a usual 9.5 - 10). Leaving aside this extreme comparison, you can drive a diesel car as you please, and still get respectable FE. Not so with petrols where you have to be conscious of shifting up early.
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Old 9th July 2010, 18:44   #183
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Default NO to Diesel car

Once the diesel prices are deregulated, the huge advantage that the Diesel cars had in Indian market will definitely come down -- although you cannot expect the manufacturers to reduce their prices or parts costs.

So my vote is NO.

Now I'm all the more happy that I didn't spend an additional 1.5L for i20 CRDi - though I would have preferred Hyundai offering a 1.4 Petrol & Manual variant in Indian market.

- ShanG
------------------------------
1991 Geo Metro (Sold)
2009 Hyundai i20 Asta
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Old 10th July 2010, 11:27   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
Oh!!!

Which is the specific petrol car you are talking about? And how long was that highway?
Any like to like petrols and diesels..say Swift ZXi and VDi. Most of the ZXi owners will tell you that though they have enjoyed nudging out VDis for first few seconds, but it is so not funny when a VDi smokes them on the highway at 100+ speeds
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Old 10th July 2010, 11:56   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieseling View Post
Any like to like petrols and diesels..say Swift ZXi and VDi.
The Swift Vdi has a turbo-charged engine, so they both aren't like to like

Quote:
Most of the ZXi owners will tell you that though they have enjoyed nudging out VDis for first few seconds, but it is so not funny when a VDi smokes them on the highway at 100+ speeds
And i have smoked many diesels in a Swift Petrol, so where all this leads to?

I certainly never indulge in road race and never would. The above statement was to point out that your argument is pretty lame and dangerous.

GTO's comments have summed up pretty well the diesel and petrol thingy.

Last edited by Sheel : 10th July 2010 at 12:00.
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Old 10th July 2010, 13:50   #186
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GTO's comments have summed up things pretty well.

I have only driven a diesel engine for 100 odd kms its good. But always like the petrol engine for its smoothness.

: One thing this thread has done successfully is

Splitting the fan boys vertically, now we are even having arguments between Swift Vxi and VDi, itself.
And all the Fiesta, Swift diesel guys have joined hands now.

Guess this thread is helping to bring in harmony between different fan boys of opposite sides.
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Old 10th July 2010, 14:50   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
The Swift Vdi has a turbo-charged engine, so they both aren't like to like
The argument is on premise of currently available cars. Surely I may also bring in the point the hydrogen charged swift will kick swift petrol turbo royally. Or you may also say that SwiftD weighs 60odd kgs more, so it isnt like to like. But it would be a useless argument in the end. All I am saying is that Swift petrol and diesel are pretty much like to like cars in the current scenario.

Surely, turbo charged petrol would make things interesting and give best of both worlds. Hence, i myself am waiting for Fiat's T-jet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
And i have smoked many diesels in a Swift Petrol, so where all this leads to?
It leads to nowhere, or perhaps you were a better driver. Don't take these things personally. What i have stated are pure facts. I don't own a SwiftD (yet!) but I have driven/ being driven in both versions. Once you are driving SwiftD in correct power band, it just becomes a monster, with oddles and oodles of torque. Effortless 100+ in 2500-3000 rpm range. You simply don't need 5k rpm, and hence engines are designed that way - more of a function of fuel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
I certainly never indulge in road race and never would. The above statement was to point out that your argument is pretty lame and dangerous.
First things first.

Now, who is talking about being rash and indulging in road race? I'm talking about 100+ cruising speeds and which car performs best at those speeds. If I had that argument, then surely would have gone with Palio 1.6S. Pocket Rocket. PERIOD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
GTO's comments have summed up pretty well the diesel and petrol thingy.
GTO said and I quote: "My answer to the poll : Depends on the intended application and varies from car to car."

It is a very generic statement. GTO this time, for god knows what reason, has given a very politically correct answer, and doesn't sum up the thingy

In the end, a petrol head will go for petrol, even when prices are 55 bucks a litre and going up, and a diesel fanboy will buy a diesel. Whether you like it or not OR believe it or not..but this thread is aimed at the fence sitters, and any other arguments will lead to petrol v/s diesel fight, which IMHO, is of no use and can be found aplently on this forum.
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Old 10th July 2010, 22:30   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieseling View Post
What i have stated are pure facts.
What you have stated are subjective opinions from different drivers (diesel & petrol). For every such subjective comments, there can be an equal number of opposite comments. These are not facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieseling View Post
I'm talking about 100+ cruising speeds and which car performs best at those speeds.
You keep harping about cruising at 100+ speeds effortlessly. I am really curious to know. I have a petrol Getz and regularly drive distances of ~800 kms in roughly 10 hours on NH7. I never felt that my car is puffing or huffing. I am typically in the speed range of 100, overtaking diesel/petrol vehicles. And at times, some other diesel/petrol vehicles overtake me.

Cruising at 100+ speeds for long distances is more about driving conditions (route, traffic, time of day, driver's experience, well maintained car etc). It is not a question of petrol vs diesel here, IMO.

Road traffic is not like rail traffic where once picked up, speed can be maintained for long distances. One would need to decelerate and keep picking up speed again and again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieseling View Post
GTO this time, for god knows what reason, has given a very politically correct answer, and doesn't sum up the thingy
Can you please elaborate why GTO's post does not sum up? I felt that was a crisp and precise post, giving excellent summary, bringing forth clear thinking.

Maintenance : GTO says petrol. Many have posted earlier that diesels are more expensive to maintain.
Enthusiastic driving : GTO says petrol. Why don't you take test drives of Skoda Superb 1.8 TSI/2.0 TDI and let us know. Till that time, I will go with GTO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieseling View Post
In the end, a petrol head will go for petrol, even when prices are 55 bucks a litre and going up, and a diesel fanboy will buy a diesel.
Not sure of petrol heads or diesel heads, but I think a sensible head should look at his needs/usage/budget and take that decision. Pragmatism is what matters.
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Old 11th July 2010, 01:44   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
What you have stated are subjective opinions from different drivers (diesel & petrol). For every such subjective comments, there can be an equal number of opposite comments. These are not facts.
We might agree to disagree, but cetris paribus - diesel will perform better than petrol on highway. You may call it personal opinion or subjective comment or howsoever you may wish to interpret it - totally upto you. I have taken both the cars on highways, and I know the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
Can you please elaborate why GTO's post does not sum up? I felt that was a crisp and precise post, giving excellent summary, bringing forth clear thinking.
As a mod of the forum, he's just doing his moral duty of wisdom sharing. I expected his answer to be emphatic petrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
Maintenance : GTO says petrol. Many have posted earlier that diesels are more expensive to maintain.
I have to disagree here. This was true in old diesel engines - and by old i mean as recent as ones used in Toyota Qualis 2003/2004 models, where diesel engine used to take in air and stop in middle of road. And that used to be painful. We did 3L kms on Qualis WITHOUT overhaul and with frequent ripping. Proves the point that if one takes proper care of diesels, they serve you well enough to recover all that extra maintenance cost in savings in fuel costs.

Cut to today, with MJD and likes, the operational maintenance is not more than few hundred bucks per servicing (per 10k). Do the math - you will end up saving lot may times more in fuel costs in those every 10k kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
Enthusiastic driving : GTO says petrol. Why don't you take test drives of Skoda Superb 1.8 TSI/2.0 TDI and let us know. Till that time, I will go with GTO.
See, that what i meant. Surely for enthusiasts, the petrol will give more rush. Even in the beginning of this argument, I said that for me the rush is in sustenance of the speeds and higher torque in cruising, not in initial 0-100kmph stage. Though i havent driven it, but have heard quite rave reviews about the TSI

I'm not saying I hate them, but let me say, i'm not impressed by them too much. Even the K-series didnt impress me as much as VDi's MJD heart has. One long TD (highway + city) in both and I decided on VDi (DO tomorrow and delivery next week). I'm waiting for T-jet to impress me, and for me to park my money on next car. But by then, a small corner in my heart also wishes that Fiat should bring their 1.9 and 2.0 Multijets to India as well !!


Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
Not sure of petrol heads or diesel heads, but I think a sensible head should look at his needs/usage/budget and take that decision. Pragmatism is what matters.
There you go buddy..you said it. I was trying to make the same point that petrol heads and diesel heads will follow their hearts. But it is for fence-sitters, or you may call them sensible heads who will decide the fate of the car. They are the ones who form the majority of car buyers. If it had been otherwise, Palio 1.6 would have given back to Alto, WagonR etc royally, and Fiesta would have jacked up Cities, SX4 etc. I'm buy VDi because I like the way it responds to me and the turbo kick is indeed addictive. My annual run would be less than 10k, and it will take me good 5yrs to recover costs, maybe more if diesel shoots up further.


In the end, i'm sure govt will not totally deregulate the diesel prices. They will just play the game to please everyone and increase the price of diesel by another couple of bucks. But yes, if such move results in price correction of diesel models, why not !

Regards

Dieseling
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Old 11th July 2010, 03:54   #190
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guys the assumption that diesel prices will be closer to petrol is itself wrong. The present deregulation is done for 2/- and if at all any deregulation is done its going to be around 2/- more. There will always be a difference of 10-13 /- between diesel and petrol.
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Old 11th July 2010, 22:57   #191
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I would like to get opinions on this: which is better for hill driving? Does diesel pull better because of torque, or is petrol actually better because it can be revved and power extracted as needed? Which is overall better for hill driving both uphill and downhill?
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Old 12th July 2010, 09:33   #192
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@ raju: diesels. i have experienced this. forget hills, even in normal flyovers, a petrol cars loses a bit of momentum or needs more effort to climb whereas a diesel car, owning to its torque, accelerates easily.
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Old 12th July 2010, 10:31   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
I would like to get opinions on this: which is better for hill driving? Does diesel pull better because of torque, or is petrol actually better because it can be revved and power extracted as needed? Which is overall better for hill driving both uphill and downhill?
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
@ raju: diesels. i have experienced this. forget hills, even in normal flyovers, a petrol cars loses a bit of momentum or needs more effort to climb whereas a diesel car, owning to its torque, accelerates easily.
+1 on that. It is a pleasure to drive a Diesel, where-ever Torque is required.

Petrol engines deliver peak torque at a higher RPM. Therefore, it needs to be revved to extract the best. Not so, with the Diesel engines.

I do not understand how this can be treated as a negative point, WRT the Diesel engines.

Fun quotient one gets in terms of revving an engine, is a different thing all together. That should not be confused with Drivibility.
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Old 12th July 2010, 11:05   #194
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Having more turbo petrols will surely make it interesting. For the joy of driving, you need petrol.
If subsidies are taken away, both petrol and diesel will cost almost the same. Then it becomes just a choice of mileage with high initial cost for diesels. Petrol might be more beneficial.
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Old 12th July 2010, 11:26   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Having more turbo petrols will surely make it interesting. For the joy of driving, you need petrol.
If subsidies are taken away, both petrol and diesel will cost almost the same. Then it becomes just a choice of mileage with high initial cost for diesels. Petrol might be more beneficial.
Nowhere it mentions that Diesel price will become equal to petrol. I dont think it is possible at all in India where the economy rides on Diesel.. Think of another 10% increase in inflation figures which will make any government fall. So Diesel is and will always remain cost effective
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