Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


View Poll Results: Would you still buy a Diesel car?
Yes 527 45.16%
No 551 47.22%
Don't Know 89 7.63%
Voters: 1167. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st January 2013, 23:41   #361
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,449
Thanked: 6,438 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

I will prefer a diesel if the car is fun to drive & still gives a better FE & there is reasonable gap in the pricing. Also I will make sure I have a pre-worshipped FTD petrol car (Palio 1.6, Fiesta 1.6S, Linea T-Jet) also in my garage for those rare occassions.
swiftnfurious is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 00:08   #362
BHPian
 
DexterMorgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto,ON
Posts: 78
Thanked: 40 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

I voted No.
No, i will not buy diesel car if diesel fuel is priced closer to petrol.
I may reconsider if diesel cars dont demand such huge premium over their petrol siblings as they do today and if diesel sibling has better tech specs compared to petrol.

Reasons (with respect to my current ride, Laura TSI):
1) Agreed Diesel cars have more torque, but after driving experience of turbos like Laura TSI is unmatched.
2) I am yet to experience overall smootheness, NVH, and finesse a petrol car delivers in a diesel sibling (same make and model)
3) today's petrol cars are efficient too, i have achieved around 17kpl in my Laura TSI, which is just amazing considering its size and power.
DexterMorgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 08:09   #363
Senior - BHPian
 
KarthikK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,918
Thanked: 3,495 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
Turbo increases the cost of petrol engines too. I guess turbo petrol engined cars would not have any big price advantage over their turbo diesel engined siblings. Case in point - Linea Tjet, priced higher than MJD Linea when it was launched.

So the premium, if any, paid for the diesel version may be nullified quite easily given the FE advantage of the diesel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by naut View Post

However, I would disagree with you on the last part of the argument. Agreed, most petrols are naturally aspirated and lack a turbo, an inter-cooler et al and hence aren't comparable to the diesels in terms of what they bring to the table.

But the moment you add them to a petrol won't they cost more? So, a turbo petrol may cost just as much as a diesel because it is precisely these additions which make the diesels cost more. Ain't it? You paid more for your tjet as compared to a Linea Multijet right.
The T-Jet engine was totally imported from Italy, while the MultiJet was manufactured locally. This was the reason why the T-Jet engine costed more than the MultiJet. It was a one-off case where a turbo petrol was costlier than a turbo diesel variant.

If both engines are assembled here (or both follow same route), the turbo petrol would still be cheaper to manufacture than a turbo diesel, simply because a diesel engine totally differs in construction and working, from a petrol engine. A proper comparison for turbo petrol v/s turbo diesel cost would be the Laura TSI v/s Laura TDI, where the diesel is at least 1.5-2L costlier, or even its elder sibling Superb TSI v/s Superb TDI where the cost advantage runs into 3-4L difference (also one of the reasons why the Superb TSI is lapping so much numbers on the sales chart)

Quote:
So, I feel, even then diesel would hold it's edge because of the efficiency. Or will the petrols with these technology additions be more economical? I do not have more data on this aspect. May be even maintenance of such turbo petrol engines will be just as expensive as maintaining turbo diesels. You should have better data here.
I would still stick to my stand - diesels are just more efficient in that they run more kilometres per litre of fuel consumed. Everywhere else turbo petrols can beat them left, right and centre. If both fuels are priced same, a diesel makes sense only if the running is so high that the FE advantage runs into considerable cost savings, say, around 50-60+ km per day where a diesel will easily save 2 litres of fuel for the same distance.

Maintenance of modern turbo petrols would be almost same as that of a NA petrol. Unless you are looking at turbo replacement or some such big repair (which is also very, very rare), the maintenance cost difference is negligible, which is also why we see the world gradually shifting to smaller displacement turbo-petrol engines which can offer the benefits of both (petrol and diesel) worlds.

A diesel engine is totally different in construction and working principles, which is why it costs more to manufacture than a petrol. A mere addition of turbocharger to a petrol engine doesn't take the costs up to a diesel's standards. Like in the case of TSI v/s TDI, the 1-2L cost difference is still evident between petrol and diesel in spite of both of them being turbocharged.

Last edited by KarthikK : 22nd January 2013 at 08:13.
KarthikK is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 10:40   #364
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: EU - Nordic
Posts: 1,563
Thanked: 953 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
The T-Jet engine was totally imported from Italy, while the MultiJet was manufactured locally. This was the reason why the T-Jet engine costed more than the MultiJet. It was a one-off case where a turbo petrol was costlier than a turbo diesel variant.

If both engines are assembled here (or both follow same route), the turbo petrol would still be cheaper to manufacture than a turbo diesel, simply because a diesel engine totally differs in construction and working, from a petrol engine. A proper comparison for turbo petrol v/s turbo diesel cost would be the Laura TSI v/s Laura TDI, where the diesel is at least 1.5-2L costlier, or even its elder sibling Superb TSI v/s Superb TDI where the cost advantage runs into 3-4L difference (also one of the reasons why the Superb TSI is lapping so much numbers on the sales chart)
I think the only comparable TSI/TDI variants for the Laura are the Ambition TSI/TDI manual where the TSI is more expensive than the TDI by 10K. Yes, the Laura TSI has a cheaper Active variant which the TDI does not have, so it's not fair to simply compare the cheapest petrol variant to the cheapest diesel variant.

To me, the TSI/TDI Superb's pricing seems to be the one-off - considering Laura, Superb and many other VAG group cars use the same engines. It's probably the result of the company trying to make a killing on the diesel variant.
StarrySky is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 11:52   #365
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Santoshbhat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,791
Thanked: 3,035 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
I think the only comparable TSI/TDI variants for the Laura are the Ambition TSI/TDI manual where the TSI is more expensive than the TDI by 10K.
Nope, the TSI Ambition MT is cheaper than the TDI Ambition MT by about Rs. 1 Lac. That is as per the price list excluding generous discounts on offer on the petrol TSI which pushes the difference higher.
Santoshbhat is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 12:02   #366
Distinguished - BHPian
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 4,702
Thanked: 3,893 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
I think the only comparable TSI/TDI variants for the Laura are the Ambition TSI/TDI manual where the TSI is more expensive than the TDI by 10K. Yes, the Laura TSI has a cheaper Active variant which the TDI does not have, so it's not fair to simply compare the cheapest petrol variant to the cheapest diesel variant.

To me, the TSI/TDI Superb's pricing seems to be the one-off - considering Laura, Superb and many other VAG group cars use the same engines. It's probably the result of the company trying to make a killing on the diesel variant.
I did not get your comparison on the Laura TSI/TDI there. As of December, The TSI Ambition is 14.38 lakhs ex-showroom Kerala, whereas the TDI Ambition pricing stands at 14.78 lakhs and 15.99 lakhs respectively for the MT and AT. Meaning the 160bhp TSI is around 40K cheaper than 110bhp MT TDI. And the difference between Ambition TSI and Ambition TDI DSG (140bhp) is around 1.5 lakhs (the OTR difference will be around 2.5 to 3 lakhs, due to the difference in road tax). Only worth if someone is keen on the convenience of DSG + high mileage requirements.

Edit: And at this moment, petrol cars have better discounts

Last edited by vb-san : 22nd January 2013 at 12:03. Reason: comment added
vb-san is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 12:32   #367
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: EU - Nordic
Posts: 1,563
Thanked: 953 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Nope, the TSI Ambition MT is cheaper than the TDI Ambition MT by about Rs. 1 Lac. That is as per the price list excluding generous discounts on offer on the petrol TSI which pushes the difference higher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
I did not get your comparison on the Laura TSI/TDI there. As of December, The TSI Ambition is 14.38 lakhs ex-showroom Kerala, whereas the TDI Ambition pricing stands at 14.78 lakhs and 15.99 lakhs respectively for the MT and AT. Meaning the 160bhp TSI is around 40K cheaper than 110bhp MT TDI. And the difference between Ambition TSI and Ambition TDI DSG (140bhp) is around 1.5 lakhs (the OTR difference will be around 2.5 to 3 lakhs, due to the difference in road tax). Only worth if someone is keen on the convenience of DSG + high mileage requirements.

Edit: And at this moment, petrol cars have better discounts
My comment was based on the price listed in Skoda India website today (ex-showroom Kochi). The price quoted is 14,78,532 for Ambition TSI and 14,68,413 for Ambition TDI. Active TSI is quoted at Rs. 13,03,596.

I'm not aware of the discounts available on various Laura models. I think they are irrelevant to this discussion because my point was only that with turbo petrols, the price difference to turbo diesel versions of the same car won't be too big.

Discounts are generally higher on petrol models now due to the fuel pricing structure which favours diesel. As the price difference reduces and there is more demand for petrol versions, the discounts will go away.
StarrySky is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 12:56   #368
Distinguished - BHPian
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 4,702
Thanked: 3,893 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
My comment was based on the price listed in Skoda India website today (ex-showroom Kochi). The price quoted is 14,78,532 for Ambition TSI and 14,68,413 for Ambition TDI. Active TSI is quoted at Rs. 13,03,596.
OT: Got your point. I guess that’s because the pricing for Ambition TSI and TDI DSG models (all variants) are for MY2013 cars, whereas the TDI MT variants are still MY2012 (probably going to phase out). Active TSI pricing is also for MY2012.
vb-san is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 13:05   #369
Senior - BHPian
 
shuvc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,895
Thanked: 283 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

If prices of diesel and petrol were similar ...

and

If I had a 1 car garage - I would buy a petrol
If I had a 1+ car garage - I would have a 'fun' petrol and a high FE small diesel as a commuter.

I fall in the second category now. And that is exactly how my garage is.
shuvc is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 13:46   #370
Senior - BHPian
 
StarScream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Noida/Delhi
Posts: 1,247
Thanked: 633 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

One thing that is lost in this debate of prices and mileage is that our current pollution norms make diesel the dirtier fuel. No one factors in the cost (albeit invisible) of pollution in the air we breathe.

I would buy a petrol until such time as India graduates to Euro 5 emission standards with its attendant benefits of ultra-low sulfur diesel and advanced engines with particulate matter filters. Then, I may consider diesel.
StarScream is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 15:24   #371
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 155
Thanked: 48 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

all things being equal would prefer a petrol simply for the driving ease of the engines, and the light and quite feel about petrol mills.
You can drive it peacefully when you want to, and just tap the accelerator for a surge (unless you are on a Wagon R) and feel the rush without having to worry about turbo lag etc.

petrol engines are simple, sweet and refined. diesels have improved over time, but they are still trying to catchup, isn't it?
amitayu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 15:59   #372
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ghaziabad
Posts: 1,007
Thanked: 760 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

Actually a moot point for me. All I care about is oodles of Low End Torque and that throws Petrols out the window.
roy_libran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2013, 19:40   #373
BHPian
 
Maverift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 48
Thanked: 10 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

Scores are even. You don't get polls closer than these.
My vote was for diesel. Simple reason, inside the city, I find driving diesel cars easier owing to their torque advantage.
Maverift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2013, 12:33   #374
Senior - BHPian
 
r_nairtvm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dubai/TRV/BLR
Posts: 1,718
Thanked: 1,526 Times
Default Diesel or Petrol

(I don’t know if this has been discussed before in the forum or not. If already discussed would request the Mods to please move this to the relevant thread as well).

Would like to start by quoting something I recently noticed in the print media and in the radios

“Diesel Prices to be Hiked Every Month"
Diesel prices will be hiked by 40-50 paise per liter every month till losses on the nation’s most used fuel are completely wiped out, Oil Minister M. Veerappa Moily said on Friday

http://www.indiawest.com/news/8850-v...ery-month.html

Any High School chemistry student can tell you that diesel requires less refining than petrol and less crude oil to produce. This was the reason of the heavy clouds of black smoke so characteristic of older generations of diesel vehicles. But, if that is the reality how come all the talk of the doing away with the subsidising of diesel fuel in about a year and a half or so, which is currently keeping the diesel prices well below that of Petrol

Part of the problem is that diesel isn't actually as cheap to produce as we tend to logically think, at least not the modern "clean" variant at least. Although diesel requires less crude oil per litre than petrol does to produce, newly established standards for lower sulphur diesel require a more complex refining process and hence, additional cost inputs.

The way things are going we will be soon in a situation of having to pay almost same price for petrol and diesel and going by international pricing levels we may even end up paying more for diesel

Given this scenario, for a person deciding on a new vehicle say in the next 12 to 18 months, what would make more sense – A Diesel Car or A Petrol Car

When diesel and petrol engines are being compared, it is important to remember one thing. One of the key attractions of a diesel powered vehicle is that its engine is generally much more efficient than a petrol run equivalent. That is why diesel cars are usually slightly more expensive. A good diesel engine in theory can deliver up to 50% more mileage per unit of fuel than that of a normal/petrol engine of same power out put.

It would appear that the diesel is more economical in the long run even though it is more expensive per litre. This is slowly changing though. The newest ULP engines are squeezing out more mileage per unit for the same amount of petrol. If petrol cars are soon likely to match the efficiency of their diesel counterparts, and the fuel prices being more or less equal, then what would make more sense – A Diesel Car or a Petrol Car? (Even the car producers could well find themselves having to think of new reasons why people need to buy diesel).

As things stand, going forward, that reason won't be for cheaper fuel. Current price trends don't seem to indicate diesel prices are going to remain at substantially lower levels than Petrol.

Would like to know the views of the people who are better informed.

Best Regards & Drive Ride Safe

Ram
r_nairtvm is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2013, 17:45   #375
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 37
Thanked: 22 Times
Default Re: Would you still buy a Diesel car if Diesel was priced closer to Petrol?

Have found this interesting thread and read all the fine posts. I find all are valid arguments, agree with each of them.

However one more point comes to my mind, not seen mentioned here. It is the mindset of frugality that we Indians share, irrespective of actual amount we may be ready to spend. Perhaps we do watch out for any financial slack to avoid.-- Finally boils down to Diesel choice.

To my observation : Cost of an already purchased car is a past event, and additional engine maintenace issues are things of future, both are slightly out of the day to day mental focus. But this is not so with the running fuel cost, which is an everpresent glaring reality.This seems to occupy much of the active mind. Calculations many a times show that real ownership cost is higher in a diesel variant, but average mind would habitually get directed to the daily fuel cost.

I personally would claerly vote for a diesel.

reasons : a) the cost confusion issue as above.
b) the torqe and solid feel, perhaps a secure feeling.
c) higher road hugging characteristic of a diesel variant.
d) study of the additional comlexities of design in modern diesels
[ petrol engines have remained much the same with fuel injection and turbocharging borrowed from diesels]

Best regards
SSanyal.
sanyal779 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Taman Negara - Getting Closer to Mother Nature advaitlele Travelogues 23 2nd March 2010 22:10
Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear. Why? beejay Technical Stuff 28 4th November 2009 14:30
if you were to buy, which one would you pick _Crazi4Speed_ The International Automotive Scene 4 3rd March 2004 06:41


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 04:42.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks