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Old 7th July 2011, 22:34   #31
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
...and its design will not resemble any of Fiatís other models. The new small car, according to Kapoor (quoted on January 2011) will target Maruti Alto buyers and the companyís R&D team is working to develop this car to best meet the customersí needs.
...so, no European design cues, rather developed by an Indian design team. I am not sure if I should feel proud or scared.
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Old 7th July 2011, 22:45   #32
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

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...so, no European design cues, rather developed by an Indian design team. I am not sure if I should feel proud or scared.
Run for the hills I say. The beauty of palio and now punto is the italian design.

Throwing it away for an unknown vague design ethic - that is truly scary.

Though I hope they do us well and make something truly worth buying
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Old 7th July 2011, 23:32   #33
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Alto is on its last legs of existence. Maruti is lucky that they could sell this contraption for this long in the country. The Alto might not even stay that long to compete with the Fiats new car.

Atleast we get to see some entry level cars from the Fiats.

Well, Best of luck Fiat.
Actually, Alto should be the benchmark to target and beat, for FIAT, in the small car arena. This is *the* car for city. I have owned 4 hatchbacks - Santro, Alto, i10 and currently own a Punto 90HP. Alto is the most comfortable and fun to drive in the city. From my experience, in case of Maruti cars, Maruti (petrol) engines become better as they age. It was a 2004 Alto and had 42k on the odo when I bought it (2009) and was sold off at 50k kms. It was a Maruti True Value second hand, I owned it for one and half years and I spent Rs.50/- (fifty) only for the whole tenure over it's maintenance. It was really fast and agile in Bangalore roads. When I sold it to the TATA showroom for exchange on the Punto, I was dropped off home in that car only - and the way the driver was pushing the car - it was obvious he was having fun.

A few months back I was on a countryside tour for a month and had a second/third hand (I don't know) Maruti 800 to keep me company. Every piece of that car was falling off. The odo was stuck at 97k. The car had not seen a Maruti service center for ages - was only handled by a "private mechanic". But even then, the engine was pulling really good (at least, according to me) and the engine note was pleasant to hear. Though I could feel a hint or two of misfires. In that condition, I could travel a roundtrip of 44 kms to and from airport to get an airline misplaced baggage. Later (another 30 kms later), I found out Brake fluid was leaking, engine oil was below minimum. After some quick home based fixup, I could even take cross country shortcuts with the car. In one such trip, one tyre burst and there was no spare, so I had to drag it in that condition to the nearest tyre shop 2 kms away. Had to throw away the tyre. When I was returning, I drove the car to the airport with my brother-in-law, midway the car broke down. Somehow I managed to get a Taxi. Later when I called up my BIL, he said that the engine had moved down in the engine bay (well, that was the local diagnosis). It had to be towed, but the bottom line is that the only fix done was a Rs.500/- (five hundred) welding job and the car is up and running.
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Old 8th July 2011, 09:50   #34
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

Fiat can never launch a small car and make it click in the near future leave alone take on Alto or the like. See the sales charts of FIAT and it is heard that they are getting down from TATA's back and going to do it alone soon. FIAT can only go on experimenting with other optioms as well and can only dream about achieving even a 25% satisfaction levels of Alto owners. Best way for FIAT is to now convince Suzuki to piggyback on Maruti in India.
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Old 8th July 2011, 10:56   #35
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

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Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
Fiat can never launch a small car and make it click in the near future leave alone take on Alto or the like. See the sales charts of FIAT and it is heard that they are getting down from TATA's back and going to do it alone soon. FIAT can only go on experimenting with other optioms as well and can only dream about achieving even a 25% satisfaction levels of Alto owners. Best way for FIAT is to now convince Suzuki to piggyback on Maruti in India.
That's a pretty sweeping statement in bold above. any basis for that?

as for split between tata's & fiat goes, only future will tell. let's not speculate. they may not be selling like pop corns but GP is doing consistent 1100 + no's for past a year or so against the like of I20 & swift .

As for satisfaction level of Alto owners goes, let us not discuss that here in this thread & by piggy backing on MSIL, FIAT will be doing another mistake like they did in the past ( tata / premier ). Need of the hour is to go solo & they must think on those lines IMO .
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Old 8th July 2011, 11:03   #36
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

@sourav21 - there is a very good reason my signature line is what it is

That apart, I really think that FIAT would be better off designing a small car on the Panda platform to compete with Alto. Stick to your Italian roots and make the car uber-cute please?
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Old 8th July 2011, 11:23   #37
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

i don't know why people think that the New small car will not be a looker like punto.

we Might be designing it but root will be italian. so i expect the design clues from one of the existing fiat;s . are we so bad in designing that people are running to hills or is it so that FIAT has developed a new platform for this small car
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Old 8th July 2011, 11:35   #38
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

Maruti with Alto will stay in its place, at no. 1. But there is enough space for a no. 2 in the Alto price range and that is where Fiat's new car will fit in.
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Old 8th July 2011, 12:00   #39
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
i don't know why people think that the New small car will not be a looker like punto.
Just have a look at the other Fiat cars on sale in the UK.
Fiat New Cars & Used Cars | View New Fiat Car Models | Fiat

The Fiat Panda
The Fiat Qubo
The Fiat Multipla
The Fiat Doblo

The Punto and the Bravo are the only two cars that look good for an Indian Buyer.
And if the new small car is to be based on the Panda, then god save the new small car

And for me, this is the best time to compete with the Alto.
Maruti has been enjoying the cream from this segment for a long time now and has it cared for the buyer? I say no.

The Alto quality has come down over the years.
I have driven all three generation Altos. (Own the 2008 Alto Gen 2)
And I would say, the Alto on sale today is of the poorest quality.

Whilst keeping prices low, the quality has been compromised with each version.
My second gen Alto has pathetic plastics. The door lock sticks broke after 1 month. The clutch pedal went bad as early as 9K Kms. (Clutch sheddering)
My friends First gen Alto was way better. The clutch pedal held close to 20K kms. There is a cost cutting done on each and every part. From the interiors to the moving parts. They are taking the Indian buyer to a ride
And the latest Alto, Auto-rickshaws have better seats. The instrument console is cheaply done.

I feel, this is the right time to hit the segment. You could offer a better quality car at the same price while keeping a few features out and still win the segment.
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Old 8th July 2011, 14:35   #40
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
Need of the hour is to go solo & they must think on those lines IMO .
+1000 to that. Please get out of the loss making JV with TATA.

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Originally Posted by KiloAlpha View Post

I really think that FIAT would be better off designing a small car on the Panda platform to compete with Alto. Stick to your Italian roots and make the car uber-cute please?
While the FIAT design school dishes out some of the most good looking cars, I doubt if those designs have a mass appeal. The Punto looks gorgeous to one & a the same time look overly bold to another. A neutral design language like that of the Palio is needed for it to be a mass market product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinya_jag View Post
And I would say, the Alto on sale today is of the poorest quality.

I feel, this is the right time to hit the segment. You could offer a better quality car at the same price while keeping a few features out and still win the segment.
I agree that the Alto's quality has been diluted over the years, but it still scores very highly on reliability & city driveability. It is a winning formula & that is the reason it does 30K+ units a month(outsells FIAT's whole portfolio).


Being an ex- FIAT owner myself, I wouldn't expect the new car to do Alto numbers, mainly because of reliability & Quality of After Sales Service. Even if it does AStar/Estilo numbers, it could be a huge success by FIAT standards.
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Old 8th July 2011, 15:07   #41
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
That's a pretty sweeping statement in bold above. any basis for that?.
Experience with FIAT in the past in India, FIAT customers' plight for spares and service, the lack of service infrastructure which made FIAT hitch hike on TATA, and cost of production advantage of Maruti, are reasons enough, to make the subject statement.

Moreover, FIAT will have to face stiff competition in that slot from the likes of Hyundai also. A tough job ahead for FIAT.

Last edited by rajeev k : 8th July 2011 at 15:18.
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Old 8th July 2011, 15:14   #42
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

^^ Reliability is something which FIAT has to learn from Japs(Suzuki, Honda, Toyota). I am using Alto LXI for around 5 years and Punto for 2 years. Now the earlier one never broke down after trashed every where to be honest all our family members learned driving from the same Car. Where as Punto 2 years old, premium than Alto had frequent breakdowns(3 times) within 2 years even though no one drives except me. I find Maruti service center is more comfortable than Tata. I can find Taxi Drivers shouting at the service center people and too much of confusions ever where whenever visit Tata service center. I feel all FIAT customers are being treated as Cab drivers. Today i happen to Visit Vishnu Cars, Chennai for renewal of my Alto insurance, I found it more comfortable than most of the Tata's.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 11:25   #43
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

Could this be the answer to Fiat's sagging fortunes in the Indian market?

Name:  2012FiatPaliofront.jpg
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Name:  2012FiatPalio.jpg
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The spyshots which we are seeing are of the new 2012 Palio, being tested at Brazil.

Plonk in a modified Multijet 1.0 Litre engine into this, rebadge it with a new name, and who knows? It could turn out to be a bestseller, much like Figo.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 12:03   #44
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

that's nice scoop raven. palio is a history in india and one will not see that brand name in india .

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinya_jag View Post
Just have a look at the other Fiat cars on sale in the UK.
Fiat New Cars & Used Cars | View New Fiat Car Models | Fiat

The Fiat Panda
The Fiat Qubo
The Fiat Multipla
The Fiat Doblo

The Punto and the Bravo are the only two cars that look good for an Indian Buyer.
And if the new small car is to be based on the Panda, then god save the new small car
While i agree what you said wrt to alto .
I thought all boy designs are already hit in this unpredictable indian market ( wagon R / santro In various avatars / Zen estilo / omni )so don;t know why above cannot succeed or is it so that they are not from maruti . I find them better looking than any of above .

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
Experience with FIAT in the past in India, FIAT customers' plight for spares and service, the lack of service infrastructure which made FIAT hitch hike on TATA, and cost of production advantage of Maruti, are reasons enough, to make the subject statement.

Moreover, FIAT will have to face stiff competition in that slot from the likes of Hyundai also. A tough job ahead for FIAT.
Thanks for sharing your experience . unfortunately i never has such experience .

what has happened in past is past. you cannot hang onto them till death . maruti has achieved that Production advantage after in this market for 30 long years and surviving on govt subsidies initially.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 16:18   #45
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Default Re: Fiat India small car to take on Alto

Let them get their "service act" together first and then the vehicles will fly.
Lot has been said about this, but what I still did not follow was, how was the Tata decision made?

I understand that going solo will dip their profits even more for some time, till there network becomes stable. But then they need to make a start somewhere and at some point in time. Adding new products wont help. That investment should go onto the network. Just look at the Linea sales. It really pains to see such a wonderful product selling few hundreds, where it should be doing few thousands.
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