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Old 12th July 2010, 12:23   #166
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Originally Posted by carfanatic007 View Post
6% loss will be quite big in revenue numbers, Maruti is heading towards trouble if things don't improve in next 2-3 months
Not really... Maruti is losing market share not revenue. It just means that as a company Maruti is growing slower than its peers in the industry and maybe the Industry as a whole.

As long as the pie is getting larger, Maruti might be happy with a smaller share.

Come to think of it, one company having nearly 50% market share in a highly competitive market isn't exactly a long term scenario. It is more of a vestige from our License raj days.

BTW I own a Swift and have nothing but good words towards ownership experience
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Old 12th July 2010, 13:23   #167
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Not really... Maruti is losing market share not revenue. It just means that as a company Maruti is growing slower than its peers in the industry and maybe the Industry as a whole.

As long as the pie is getting larger, Maruti might be happy with a smaller share.

Come to think of it, one company having nearly 50% market share in a highly competitive market isn't exactly a long term scenario. It is more of a vestige from our License raj days.

BTW I own a Swift and have nothing but good words towards ownership experience
agree with your last 2 points. but the maruti being happier while shedding its market share, well i don't quite agree on this one.

Look at the stated objectives of suzuki chairman for maruti and you will understand why it doesnt fly.

But eventually since law of competition tells any one company holding more than 35% is unsustaiable and attracts a lot of competition, i see share going down anyways.

Its only about how much time you can keep fighting with dwindling market share. It has happend with Detroit 3 in US and will happen sooner or later in india with maruti.
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Old 12th July 2010, 14:55   #168
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agree with your last 2 points. but the maruti being happier while shedding its market share, well i don't quite agree on this one.

Look at the stated objectives of suzuki chairman for maruti and you will understand why it doesnt fly.

But eventually since law of competition tells any one company holding more than 35% is unsustaiable and attracts a lot of competition, i see share going down anyways.

Its only about how much time you can keep fighting with dwindling market share. It has happend with Detroit 3 in US and will happen sooner or later in india with maruti.
The way I look at it, if there is stiff competition without too much monopoly in any of the segments then in the end customer will always benefit, be it price, features etc. So don't know why some people feel bad when Maruti may loose some market share. After all with so many years of having such a good run won't it be tough to expect the same from them all the time. Stock holders might worry but as long as revenue keeps growing they too won't complain that much.
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Old 12th July 2010, 15:31   #169
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It's quite natural to loose the market share when the competition increases.

Though Maruti's market share is down and sales increase per month may be smaller compared to other car companies, in terms of number of sales it clocks per month, it performs well.

For example: Consider FIAT. If it had sold 600 cars in June 2009 and sold an additional 1200 extra in this June 2010 (total 1800 pm), its monthly sales increase is 200%!

Consider Maruti. If it had sold 60000 cars in June 2009 and sold an additional 10000 extra in this June 2010 (total 70000 pm), its monthly sales increase is around 17% only!
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Old 12th July 2010, 20:08   #170
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Originally Posted by samsan02 View Post
The way I look at it, if there is stiff competition without too much monopoly in any of the segments then in the end customer will always benefit, be it price, features etc. So don't know why some people feel bad when Maruti may loose some market share. After all with so many years of having such a good run won't it be tough to expect the same from them all the time. Stock holders might worry but as long as revenue keeps growing they too won't complain that much.
+1 to that. Competition is always good. But maruti's case only launches to hit them recently are Nano and Figo that too for about 13K. Once Toyota and honda comeup with their hatches and entry level sedans and nano diesel is launched, expect to maruti's share even lower.
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Old 17th July 2010, 14:41   #171
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Hey guys,

Would anybody being knowing as to how much each city is contributing to the total vehicle sales across India?

Also amongst all cities, how much percentage would the city of Mumbai contribute to total vehicle sales across India.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 21:01   #172
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The best-sellings car models in India in June:

URBANOS
  1. Maruti Alto 19.992
  2. Hyundai i10 12.477
  3. Maruti WagonR 9.084
  4. TATA Nano 7.704
  5. Hyundai Santro 6.557
  6. Maruti 5.389
  7. Maruti A-Star 3.655
  8. Chevrolet Beat 3.411
  9. Chevrolet Spark 2.906
  10. Maruti 800 2.090
POLIVALENTES HATCH
  1. Maruti Swift 9.191
  2. TATA Indica 9.003
  3. Ford Figo 6.188
  4. Hyundai i20 5.366
  5. Maruti Ritz 4.107
  6. VW Polo 1.527
  7. Fiat Grande Punto 1.273
  8. Skoda Fabia 583
  9. Honda Jazz 507
  10. Chevrolet UV-A 377
POLIVALENTES SEDÁN
  1. TATA Indigo 7.752
  2. Maruti Dzire 6.951
  3. Honda City 3.544
  4. Hyundai Verna 1.838
  5. Hyundai Accent 1.130
  6. Fiat Linea 850
  7. Ford Fiesta 665
  8. Hindustan Ambassador 650
  9. Mahindra Logan 562
  10. Chevrolet Aveo 375
COMPACTOS Y MEDIOS
  1. Suzuki SX4 1.130
  2. Chevrolet Cruze 772
  3. Skoda Laura 681
  4. Toyota Corolla Altis 512
  5. VW Jetta 368
  6. Honda Civic 339
  7. Chevrolet Optra 91
  8. Mitsubishi Cedia 44
  9. Mitsubishi Lancer 20
  10. Toyota Prius 10
BERLINAS
  1. Skoda Superb 374
  2. Mercedes Clase C 172
  3. Honda Accord 157
  4. BMW Serie3 130
  5. VW Passat 110
  6. Audi A4 55
  7. Nissan Teana 33
  8. Toyota Camry 25
  9. Hyundai Sonata Transform 18
  10. Hyundai Sonata 0
GRANDES Y LUJO
  1. Mercedes Clase E 164
  2. Audi A6 70
  3. BMW Serie7 30
  4. Mercedes Clase S 30
  5. BMW Serie5 25
  6. Volvo S80 5
  7. VW Phaeton 2
  8. BMW Serie6 2
  9. Nissan 370Z 2
  10. Audi TT 0
SUVs, PICK UP Y 4x4
  1. Mahindra Bolero 6.026
  2. Maruti Omni 5.917
  3. Mahindra Pick Up 4.257
  4. Mahindra Scorpio 2.772
  5. Maruti Gypsy 1.299
  6. Mahindra Jeep 1.289
  7. TATA Safari 1.280
  8. Toyota Fortuner 1.027
  9. Ford Endeavour 210
  10. Chevrolet Captiva 139
  11. Mitsubishi Outlander 110
  12. Mitsubishi Pajero 59
  13. Honda CR-V 48
  14. Toyota Prado 47
  15. Nissan X-Trail 42
  16. Audi Q7 40
  17. Audi Q5 35
  18. BMW X6 15
  19. Mercedes GL 13
  20. Maruti Grand Vitara 10
  21. Mercedes ML 8
  22. Toyota LC200 6
  23. VW Touareg 5
  24. Volvo XC90 2
  25. Volvo X3 2
MPV
  1. Toyota Innova 4.533
  2. Maruti Ecco 3.997
  3. Mahindra Xylo 2.666
  4. TATA Sumo 2.322
  5. Chevrolet Tavera 1.423
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Old 23rd July 2010, 11:09   #173
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One small mistake, Don't know how SX4 came in the group of Altis, Cruze, Jetta. So Cruze is the leader in this segment.
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Old 27th July 2010, 08:19   #174
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Originally Posted by samsan02 View Post
The way I look at it, if there is stiff competition without too much monopoly in any of the segments then in the end customer will always benefit, be it price, features etc. So don't know why some people feel bad when Maruti may loose some market share. After all with so many years of having such a good run won't it be tough to expect the same from them all the time. Stock holders might worry but as long as revenue keeps growing they too won't complain that much.
Stock holders would worry not because of the revenue growth or the lack of it.One thing that worries them is the royalty payment 180 crores is not a joke,and unlike other things royalty payment cannot be tied up with the monthly number, and that brings a certain amount of uncertainty. And uncertainty is not something we want from a bluechip auto stock.I have choices i shall be extremely happy to buy a TATA or an MnM and maybe make less returns but atleast returns for sure unlike Maruti where some Japanese idiot decides how much of the earnings is to be gobbled up as royalty.



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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
+1 to that. Competition is always good. But maruti's case only launches to hit them recently are Nano and Figo that too for about 13K. Once Toyota and honda comeup with their hatches and entry level sedans and nano diesel is launched, expect to maruti's share even lower.
While i agree with competition is always good from the customers point of view.As an analyst i can tell you maruti does not make huge money when it comes to lower end models. Unlike MnM who can keep their margins intact even by selling scooters, Maruti struggles when it comes to margins when the input costs rise.However this is a recent occurrence and not a real trend, so i guess the jury is still out on that one.
Models that have bled Maruti 1) NANO 2) FIGO 3)Indigo cs/ Manza, the Indigo CS is doing to TATA what the Dzire did to Maruti last 2 years.Bottom line up,Volumes up competition sweating. However TATA's are their own bosses and could respond with a Manza when they couldn't stop the Dzire . However Maruti has a Jap for a boss who is struggling in his home country and will try to balance that by squeezing every little penny in a explosive market like India and a product launch is the last thing on his mind.
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Old 27th July 2010, 09:45   #175
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Originally Posted by kingpin1 View Post

While i agree with competition is always good from the customers point of view.As an analyst i can tell you maruti does not make huge money when it comes to lower end models

Models that have bled Maruti 1) NANO 2) FIGO 3)Indigo cs/ Manza, the Indigo CS is doing to TATA what the Dzire did to Maruti last 2 years.Bottom line up,Volumes up competition sweating. However TATA's are their own bosses and could respond with a Manza when they couldn't stop the Dzire . However Maruti has a Jap for a boss who is struggling in his home country and will try to balance that by squeezing every little penny in a explosive market like India and a product launch is the last thing on his mind.
I do agree Maruti is not having good margins like that of the MnM, but the reason they have adopted that is because they have volumes to justify them.
One should not forget Maruti have built up a brand name to an extent that they can even price the swift to a Polo's range and rake profit. The only reason they have restricted the margins is because they have volume, once they see the volumes slumping they are sure going to bring a freshned one and increase the price and thereby the margins.

Tata are doing a good job, they are inching closer very slowly and steadily. I agree to that. But again thats just a bottomline game, I am sure their margins would be even less.
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Old 27th July 2010, 20:18   #176
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Originally Posted by kingpin1 View Post
Stock holders would worry not because of the revenue growth or the lack of it.One thing that worries them is the royalty payment 180 crores is not a joke,and unlike other things royalty payment cannot be tied up with the monthly number, and that brings a certain amount of uncertainty. And uncertainty is not something we want from a bluechip auto stock.I have choices i shall be extremely happy to buy a TATA or an MnM and maybe make less returns but atleast returns for sure unlike Maruti where some Japanese idiot decides how much of the earnings is to be gobbled up as royalty.
You have put it very nicely here. Even after operating in india for more than two decades they still continue to depend on life support from japan. That's why I say domestic companies are always better.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpin1 View Post
While i agree with competition is always good from the customers point of view.As an analyst i can tell you maruti does not make huge money when it comes to lower end models. Unlike MnM who can keep their margins intact even by selling scooters, Maruti struggles when it comes to margins when the input costs rise.However this is a recent occurrence and not a real trend, so i guess the jury is still out on that one.
Models that have bled Maruti 1) NANO 2) FIGO 3)Indigo cs/ Manza, the Indigo CS is doing to TATA what the Dzire did to Maruti last 2 years.Bottom line up,Volumes up competition sweating.
you added one more model(indigo) to the list. We sing praises of Maruti but What kind of company suffers from just 3 launches. It's market share and revenue are going down. Maruti had a field run bcoz of early mover advantge(Govn help too) and lack of competition. These two things will explain why Suzuki failed all over the world expect india.

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Originally Posted by kingpin1 View Post
However TATA's are their own bosses and could respond with a Manza when they couldn't stop the Dzire . However Maruti has a Jap for a boss who is struggling in his home country and will try to balance that by squeezing every little penny in a explosive market like India and a product launch is the last thing on his mind.
Suzuki is the boss at Maruti. Govt is just a rubber stamp. Tata's and Mahindra's revenues are a fraction of Suzuki's. Yet they are investing in a lot in R&D product development. Why can't maruti do the same in india. Both Tata's and Mahindra's are also working on Hybrids and fuel cells. Any news about that from Maruti/Suzuki.
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Old 28th July 2010, 10:29   #177
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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
you added one more model(indigo) to the list. We sing praises of Maruti but What kind of company suffers from just 3 launches. It's market share and revenue are going down. Maruti had a field run bcoz of early mover advantge(Govn help too) and lack of competition. These two things will explain why Suzuki failed all over the world expect india.
When you manufacture 5 cars out of every 10 put on the road, your market share is bound to go down with increase in competition. I would not be worried unless there is a consistent drop in sales month after month. On the contrary, Maruti has improved its numbers from what they were earlier.

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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
Suzuki is the boss at Maruti. Govt is just a rubber stamp.
Govt has long sold its stake in Maruti. Their holding at present would be miniscule.Maruti today is as big as Suzuki. In fact Maruti has sold more cars in India than Suzuki has in Japan. As things stand today, Suzuki needs Maruti more than Maruti needs Suzuki. If Maruti was up for sale, you would realize its true worth.


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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
Tata's and Mahindra's revenues are a fraction of Suzuki's. Yet they are investing in a lot in R&D product development. Why can't maruti do the same in india. Both Tata's and Mahindra's are also working on Hybrids and fuel cells. Any news about that from Maruti/Suzuki.
Maruti is developing a small car for India to replace the M 800. IIRC, it is codenamed YP3. These things take time and the output will take a few years. You can't develop a car overnight. If all goes well, you will get to see it in 2012.

Last edited by longhorn : 28th July 2010 at 10:32.
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Old 28th July 2010, 11:15   #178
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Govt has long sold its stake in Maruti. Their holding at present would be miniscule.Maruti today is as big as Suzuki. In fact Maruti has sold more cars in India than Suzuki has in Japan. As things stand today, Suzuki needs Maruti more than Maruti needs Suzuki. If Maruti was up for sale, you would realize its true worth.
Maruti has sold more cars than Suzuki Japan - False

Maruti has sold more cars than Suzuki Worldwide - True

In fact, Suzuki survives the global meltdown on its own because of Maruti.

further, restrictions on Technology transfer are gone for good. Wonder what holds Suzuki from bringing 1500cc 125bhp petrol motor that runs the Swift Sports in Europe & SX4 in Japan to India. Plus there are few good diesel engines as well.

I believe that Suzuki has always milked the Indians. Even the Swift was a majboori to avoid Hyundai & Tata cars (good or bad) taking over market share from Suzuki.
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Old 28th July 2010, 11:32   #179
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I believe that Suzuki has always milked the Indians.
Can you name any other foreign manufacturer in India who has not done the same ? Maruti cars are the cheapest in every segment. If Suzuki is milking Indians, what about other foreign manufacturers? Why blame Suzuki alone?

Last edited by longhorn : 28th July 2010 at 11:33.
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Old 28th July 2010, 13:25   #180
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Can you name any other foreign manufacturer in India who has not done the same ? Maruti cars are the cheapest in every segment. If Suzuki is milking Indians, what about other foreign manufacturers? Why blame Suzuki alone?
Exactly my thoughts!

In most of the segments, Maruti cars are cheaper than Hyundis, Hondas, Chevys and Fords.

Maruti and Tata are good in giving what majority of Indians want (in terms of engine power, features, spec, safety features etc), while other manufacturers give what they want to give. IMO, it is like democracy (by Maruti and Tata) and autocracy (by others)!



Last edited by romeomidhun : 28th July 2010 at 13:33.
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