Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th July 2010, 20:43   #76
Senior - BHPian
 
YC.BALENO.CHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 1,089
Thanked: 89 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelNut View Post
Unbelievable!! With the kind of A.S.S they have.
My manza qjd spent 30 days in the service centre for lack of spares after a small accident with a bike.
Finally after they told the car is ready, I noticed the new bumper didn't have chrome strips on the grill, and they never noticed it! I got it removed and fitted from the old bumper.
I took the car home and later found the USB port wouldn't work, they had forgotten to mate the usb connector behind the audio HU! It was stuck inside the air-vent.
Also the new headlight (LH) was pointing skywards.
The next day I went to get the issues sorted out, only to end up with more issues.
They burned a hole behind the new head light unit by hanging a bulb behind it (luckily I found this after getting a burning smell).
They mated the connector for steering controls the wrong way after sorting out the USB issue.
I have finally got the headlight replaced, but had to sort out the audio controls problem by myself as the service guys were clueless.
I had problems with steering alignment, but after they tried to correct it, the steering which was towards left side at neutral is now towards right side

This is pathetic. But I won't say that TASS is the same almost everywhere.

I experienced excellent A.S.S. from MASS people at Lucknow, Chandigarh and Dehradun. But MASS Bhopal is pathetic. My experience here has been as bad as yours with the TASS you dealt with.

While the Indica Petrol we had (from initial batch) had numerous issues, TASS--Oberoi Motors, Dehradun was excellent.


So IMO A.S.S. is subjective to location.

Regards.
YC.BALENO.CHD is offline  
Old 12th July 2010, 02:47   #77
BHPian
 
tush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 328
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Tata is doing an awesome development with its products. They are also coming up with a Global Car. If they keep this consistency with good products along with good A.S.S, they would definitely become No.1 soon.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1977724

Last edited by tush : 12th July 2010 at 02:49.
tush is online now  
Old 12th July 2010, 13:10   #78
BHPian
 
anonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NCR
Posts: 564
Thanked: 15 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenmachinE View Post
Have they improved A.S.S - I dont know
I know there has been lot of improvement on this front. Just a small example -Whenever I get my Indica serviced by TASS, I get a call from their Gurgaon office and its followed by another call from their Pune Office. If I am not satisfied with anything, I tell them and it gets actioned. Once I was not satisfied with the car wash and I complained it, when I got a call. Within 2 hours, I received a call from Service center, they took my car, washed it, waxed it and delivered to me and all this was free of cost.

Last edited by anonymous : 12th July 2010 at 13:12.
anonymous is offline  
Old 12th July 2010, 20:20   #79
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 34
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

As per the TOI report quoted by this thread starter, the jump made by Tata over Hyundai is primarily attributed to Nano (for the month of Jun 2010).

Note that the real target market for Nano was Rural India typically vying for bikes.. Now with the Nano mother plant in full swing, they will be better positioned to serve that demand and in that respect, they should be able to retain the #2 slot.

But to climb up to #1, they have to do something more - Hope they have solid plans for that too.
ShanG is offline  
Old 12th July 2010, 20:23   #80
BHPian
 
Rock 'n' rollz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 277
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Sure,

TATA's have come a long way, Partnership with Fiats have helped them get the Best Diesel engines as on date, and the JLR takeover.

Congratulations TATA,

With the kind of VFM products they are offering presently, they sure will get close to being No.1 soon.
Yes and they have paid Fiat back by offering some really poor service to the Fiat customers. Also influencing buyer's decision by brainwashing them how good a Tata car is over a Fiat car. Good going.
Rock 'n' rollz is offline  
Old 12th July 2010, 20:35   #81
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 138
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Congrats to the TML team on this achievement. Hope they sustain this and gun for MSL.
drsk is offline  
Old 12th July 2010, 20:40   #82
BHPian
 
anmol2k4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Gr. Noida Aka Gurrator Naveda
Posts: 193
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock 'n' rollz View Post
Yes and they have paid Fiat back by offering some really poor service to the Fiat customers. Also influencing buyer's decision by brainwashing them how good a Tata car is over a Fiat car. Good going.
They paid them back by paying royalty for use of Fiat's IP, like other companies do(Suzuki). And they sell Fiat vehicles because those are manufactured and sold under Fiat-Tata 50:50 JV. So Tata makes money from Fiat vehicle sales, so there is no reason for them to discourage Fiat vehicle sales.

Also how do Tata manage to influence/brainwash buyers when it is the dealers who deal with customers and not Tata ?. Lastly there is no reason for dealers to do such thing unless they have lower margins on Fiat vehicles which Fiat can easily rectify by increasing their margins.
anmol2k4 is offline  
Old 12th July 2010, 20:41   #83
Distinguished - BHPian
 
anjan_c2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: India
Posts: 5,531
Thanked: 4,705 Times
Default

Thats a good achievement by Tata Motors.They have also made it to the Fortune 500 list of 500 top companies in the world. Believe its for the first time that this company is featured here!
Chhak De India!
anjan_c2007 is online now  
Old 12th July 2010, 21:03   #84
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Posts: 1,174
Thanked: 958 Times
Default

There is no doubt that selling Fiats is not Tata's primary agenda and most of them sit as unloved children in Tata showrooms.

But Fiat's debacle is their own fault, the way they ran their operations were ridiculous and there came a stage that the dealers overpowered the company. TVS and sons one of the dominant Fiat dealers had a monopoly in most South Indian districts would not allow Fiat to even consider a second dealer threatening to stop providing A.S.S asap if this happens. The end result was a few hundred cars being sold each month.
Fiats sales have now risen ever since they moved into using Tata's network, of course new models helped.

Tata@ No. 1 is a long shot. Maruti is highly dominant in the small car sector and the goodwill they enjoy is not something Tata has, at least not at present. I think it will all depend on India's reaction to the Nano diesel, wait and watch.

But I think where Tata is loosing out are UVs. While the Aria is a very important model, It will be the Venture and Iris that will be bringing in the volumes.
shortbread is offline  
Old 12th July 2010, 21:30   #85
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: miami. fl
Posts: 435
Thanked: 134 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
There is no doubt that selling Fiats is not Tata's primary agenda and most of them sit as unloved children in Tata showrooms.

But Fiat's debacle is their own fault, the way they ran their operations were ridiculous and there came a stage that the dealers overpowered the company. TVS and sons one of the dominant Fiat dealers had a monopoly in most South Indian districts would not allow Fiat to even consider a second dealer threatening to stop providing A.S.S asap if this happens. The end result was a few hundred cars being sold each month.
Fiats sales have now risen ever since they moved into using Tata's network, of course new models helped.

Tata@ No. 1 is a long shot. Maruti is highly dominant in the small car sector and the goodwill they enjoy is not something Tata has, at least not at present. I think it will all depend on India's reaction to the Nano diesel, wait and watch.

But I think where Tata is loosing out are UVs. While the Aria is a very important model, It will be the Venture and Iris that will be bringing in the volumes.
Fully agree with you on all the points you mentioned. But will venture and Iris be considered as passenger cars/vehicles?
airbender is offline  
Old 12th July 2010, 21:38   #86
Senior - BHPian
 
Amartya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Evanston
Posts: 1,699
Thanked: 376 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
There is no doubt that selling Fiats is not Tata's primary agenda and most of them sit as unloved children in Tata showrooms.

But Fiat's debacle is their own fault, the way they ran their operations were ridiculous and there came a stage that the dealers overpowered the company. TVS and sons one of the dominant Fiat dealers had a monopoly in most South Indian districts would not allow Fiat to even consider a second dealer threatening to stop providing A.S.S asap if this happens. The end result was a few hundred cars being sold each month.
Fiats sales have now risen ever since they moved into using Tata's network, of course new models helped.

While I agree that selling Fiats is not Tata's primary agenda, I do think that this alliance has been very beneficial for both the companies. One got engine technology, the other a service network.

Fiat needs to piggyback on the Tata network for atleast the next 3-4 years, as a change is customer perception is usually a gradual process. It'll be great for Tata as well, because Fiat has an arsenal of small engines that are soon going to be the norm (in fact in my opinion, Fiat and VW are the ones with the first mover advantage for sophisticated small engines).
Amartya is offline  
Old 12th July 2010, 21:44   #87
BHPian
 
Rock 'n' rollz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 277
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anmol2k4 View Post
They paid them back by paying royalty for use of Fiat's IP, like other companies do(Suzuki). And they sell Fiat vehicles because those are manufactured and sold under Fiat-Tata 50:50 JV. So Tata makes money from Fiat vehicle sales, so there is no reason for them to discourage Fiat vehicle sales.

Also how do Tata manage to influence/brainwash buyers when it is the dealers who deal with customers and not Tata ?. Lastly there is no reason for dealers to do such thing unless they have lower margins on Fiat vehicles which Fiat can easily rectify by increasing their margins.
That other 50% of the JV resulted in the poor plastic and interior quality in general. I also hold Fiat responsible for this but Tata's could have done a better job with the interiors. You answered yourself in the second para. I agree Tata Motors does make money by selling Fiat cars. But .... by selling which car Tata Motors will make more money?? by a selling a Punto or a Vista?

Well I consider dealers as an integral part of the car manufacturer.
1. Who decides the dealers?
2. Who should keep tab on the quality of service (sales/after sales) the dealer provides? (Especially when one does all the drama of collecting feedback etc and just sits on it)
3. Why is Maruti No 1?? (Do you think "Its the dealer not us" attitude will help Tata Motors be No 1 in India ever?)

All I can do right now is say "All is well ... All is well"
Rock 'n' rollz is offline  
Old 12th July 2010, 22:13   #88
Senior - BHPian
 
Amartya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Evanston
Posts: 1,699
Thanked: 376 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock 'n' rollz View Post
That other 50% of the JV resulted in the poor plastic and interior quality in general. I also hold Fiat responsible for this but Tata's could have done a better job with the interiors. You answered yourself in the second para. I agree Tata Motors does make money by selling Fiat cars. But .... by selling which car Tata Motors will make more money?? by a selling a Punto or a Vista?

Well I consider dealers as an integral part of the car manufacturer.
1. Who decides the dealers?
2. Who should keep tab on the quality of service (sales/after sales) the dealer provides? (Especially when one does all the drama of collecting feedback etc and just sits on it)
3. Why is Maruti No 1?? (Do you think "Its the dealer not us" attitude will help Tata Motors be No 1 in India ever?)

All I can do right now is say "All is well ... All is well"
I cannot fathom what the last sentence is meant to convey. Now, it'll be great if you could acknowledge the fact that Tata Motors is reasonably new to the car manufacturing (and selling) scene, whereas Fiat has been in the game for decades. Once you acknowledge that fact, you can then move on to the fact that the Tata alliance brought Fiat back from the brink. You are right about dealers being an integral part of the whole process, and this is an area where Tata-Fiat have made great strides.

The "drama" that you refer to, is actually not so. Having experienced Tata service in it's Indica days (pre V2) and now, I can safely vouch for the fact that they are almost there (notice almost). The rest will happen with the feedback being taken, no offence, but calling it "drama" is just unfair.

I usually differ from people when they bring up this matter of plastic quality in the Punto. If you care to look at the prices abroad, you'd see that the Punto is very competitively priced in India. For that, they've had to cut costs , which they did in terms of plastic quality. I don't grudge them that at all. Yes, I'd like to see better plastics, but not at the cost of the engine/dynamics package. Look at the Polo, great interiors, 3-pot engines.
Amartya is offline  
Old 12th July 2010, 23:14   #89
BHPian
 
anmol2k4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Gr. Noida Aka Gurrator Naveda
Posts: 193
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock 'n' rollz View Post
That other 50% of the JV resulted in the poor plastic and interior quality in general.
Can you back up this ridiculous claim ? Because I was under the impression that quality of plastics is correlated to the price of vehicle. After all the JV does not manufacture plastic parts and sources those parts from the OEM. Their decision to chose lower/higher quality parts in dependent on the market research.

If you think otherwise and have facts to back up your opinion then please do enlighten the noobs like us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock 'n' rollz View Post
I also hold Fiat responsible for this but Tata's could have done a better job with the interiors.
Exactly how could have Tata Motors done anything with vehicle designed/developed by Fiat ? The decision on what to manufacture or whether to upgrade interiors or not lie in the hand of Fiat management.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock 'n' rollz View Post
You answered yourself in the second para. I agree Tata Motors does make money by selling Fiat cars. But .... by selling which car Tata Motors will make more money?? by a selling a Punto or a Vista?
Thanks for stating the obvious, but Tata Motors does not sell directly to customers. That is the job of Dealers, their decision to push particular brands or not depends upon the margins, something Fiat can rectify if that is the reason for poor sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock 'n' rollz View Post
Well I consider dealers as an integral part of the car manufacturer.
1. Who decides the dealers?
2. Who should keep tab on the quality of service (sales/after sales) the dealer provides? (Especially when one does all the drama of collecting feedback etc and just sits on it)
3. Why is Maruti No 1?? (Do you think "Its the dealer not us" attitude will help Tata Motors be No 1 in India ever?)
Regarding the point 1 & 2, if you are insinuating that Tata Motors is intentionally choosing bad dealers and keeping their After Sales Service quality bad for whatever reason then my only response is :-



Also where exactly did you hear Tata Motors making the "Its the dealer not us" excuse ?


Lastly Fiat and Tata Motors are well managed and very profitable companies, we may consider their decisions as stupid but keep in mind that they are doing well enough to not only survive recession and bankruptcies but also buy out large companies like JLR and Chrysler.

Take a look at the following page and notice the number of non Fiat vehicles using JTD engine :-

JTD engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tata GM Suzuki Opel Ford Cadillac Saab and Vauxhall all rely on this engine, and Fiat is making money every time some of the most popular cars in India like Swift, DZire, Indica or Manza are sold.

So Fiat is already making money on lot of cars which are sold, if they will try to aggressively sell their vehicles that would most certainly affect the sales of other cars relying on JTD engine. And that might force Suzuki GM Tata Ford Saab to end their reliance on Fiat.

Exactly why would Fiat want to do such thing and lose the royalty they get from Tata GM Suzuki Opel Ford Cadillac Saab and Vauxhall for the measly increase in the sales of their own vehicles ?
anmol2k4 is offline  
Old 13th July 2010, 00:55   #90
BHPian
 
Rock 'n' rollz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 277
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
I cannot fathom what the last sentence is meant to convey.
That last sentence means I am a proud owner of a stunning car (minus interior, after sales service) who is suffering at the hands of some dealers appointed by Tata Motors. I think .anshuman's thread sums it up well. Its a kind of love-hate relationship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
The rest will happen with the feedback being taken, no offence, but calling it "drama" is just unfair.
Well it might be an individual case but I still prefer to call it a drama as long as they don't improve their processes based on my feedback.

I make an appointment with the Tata Service Center @ 9 AM on a weekday (as they claim "weekends are overloaded and we can serve you better on weekdays"). I change my plan to commute to the office by asking a friend to pick me up at 9:30 AM from the service center. I reach there only to find that Fiat executive will turn up at 10. It could be his/her regular timing but then why make an appointment @9AM on the "weekday" in the first place. I complained about this and same thing happened twice after that. nothing has improved.

So my every feedback call is : (btw I have one tomorrow)
1. They make an appointment at 9, 9:30 and the service "advisor" turns up at 10.
2. Car is not (READ: never) washed properly.
3. If you ask them to fix 5 things they will fix 2 and call you at 6PM.. "Sir gaadi idhar chhodana padega" (I find it very suspicious and hence my car never stays overnight at the service center) Why would one want to keep a car overnight just to check the Blue&Me problem by connecting a laptop.
4. At 4PM you get a SMS from TML your car is ready for the delivery. I reach there by 4:30PM only to find the car is not washed. I get my car at 6:00PM. The actual washing part happens in the last 10 minutes. I feel like a fool standing there, when I could have better utilized my time at the office.
5. Whenever you want to discuss an issue, the "Fiat specialist" is not around (I have fixed so many issues on my own with the help of t-bhpians/other internet forums .. e.g. Blue & Me, Rear Parcel tray, phone conectivity issues)

Today I did my 2nd servicing and they have charged me Rs. 1750 for a fuel filter where as it should be 765. Thats an added point for tomorrow's "drama" call. The reason I have been given is 765 was an old price and 1750 is the new price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
I usually differ from people when they bring up this matter of plastic quality in the Punto. If you care to look at the prices abroad, you'd see that the Punto is very competitively priced in India. For that, they've had to cut costs , which they did in terms of plastic quality. I don't grudge them that at all. Yes, I'd like to see better plastics, but not at the cost of the engine/dynamics package. Look at the Polo, great interiors, 3-pot engines.
Two months after the delivery, the bonnet opener lever started acting up. With security checks in place in most of the malls/workspace, it was embarrassing when the bonnet didn't open @ the security check. Remember I paid 7 lacs of my hard earned money for this car. It was my well informed decision to buy this car. So I knew what I was getting into. But then I also expected to enjoy the "now hugely improved" Tata service quality. Unfortunately that never seemed to happen.

One fine day the bonnet didn't open at the security check at my workplace. I was denied an entry and had to opt for roadside parking. Some unknown people/vehicles managed a couple of scratches on my car's door. I thanked god for looking after both the logos and next day morning visited the service center. "Sir you'll have to wait... you do not have an appointment". Fair enough. Spent next half an hour browsing through the marketing material of Manza, observing badly maintained Linea on display (indicator popping out, broken wipers, missing chrome strips, slightly torn back seat), a propsective customer checking out various controls of a Punto that was just "serviced". Just when I started imaginiing my car being used as a display piece, a Fiat specialist came up and asked me what the problem was. I explained. "yes sir, this is a common problem in Fiat cars". He called someone from the workshop asking him to carry a piece of a newspaper and some glue. I asked him what the hell was he doing. He calmly replied "sir this is how we fix it. Don't worry it works." The sheer thought of parking my car on the road and new scratches/losing my logos made me say yes to him. Around the same time the nanos were catching fire. So it was a security issue as well. What if something goes wrong and I am unable to open the bonnet. So I agreed. The guy folded the paper. Pour some glue in the bonnet lever and pushed the folded paper in it. thats it. it works. I leave the place. Next day I get a feedback call. Although I was not 100% happy with the "jugaad" solution provided, I still gave a average feedback because the solution had worked. But I did mention that such faults should not be there in any car. 2 days later I happen to take my brother in law (who was on a two week India trip) to a suburban mall and ... we were denied the entry. Just imagine it could have been my boss, even worse a client??

Next day I am back to the service center. Service advisor says "Sir you do not have an appointment". (this time I cared a damn as if they were very punctual when I made an appointment). I told him I would like to speak to the manager. The service advisor starts arguing with me. Manager chips in. The advisor tells him that he won't fix my problem, ask someone else to do it. Ultimately I get it fixed. (One needs gutts to tell one's boss that s/he won't fix the customer's problem in front of the customer)

I can understand cost cutting but it should not come at the cost of functional aspects of the car. How much more would they have to spend to provide decent plastic levers? I can live with the grainy dashboard plastic for cost cutting but not the levers. No one expects Polo kind of interior anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anmol2k4 View Post
Can you back up this ridiculous claim ? Because I was under the impression that quality of plastics is correlated to the price of vehicle. If you think otherwise and have facts to back up your opinion then please do enlighten the noobs like us.
please read the above. This is just one plastic part. Do PM me if you want to hear about the rear parcel tray/hatch lock stories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anmol2k4 View Post
Lastly Fiat and Tata Motors are well managed and very profitable companies, we may consider their decisions as stupid but keep in mind that they are doing well enough to not only survive recession and bankruptcies but also buy out large companies like JLR and Chrysler.

Take a look at the following page and notice the number of non Fiat vehicles using JTD engine :-

JTD engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I feel proud as an Indian when Tata motors goes for global acquisitions, fights recession etc. But I am a small time customer who is interested in the service they provide me for the money I have paid them. How does JLR, Chrysler acquisition help me if they are unable to provide me quality service for the car that they have already sold me? What difference does it make for me if they are profitable or not? I am not an investor of their company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anmol2k4 View Post
Tata GM Suzuki Opel Ford Cadillac Saab and Vauxhall all rely on this engine, and Fiat is making money every time some of the most popular cars in India like Swift, DZire, Indica or Manza are sold.

So Fiat is already making money on lot of cars which are sold, if they will try to aggressively sell their vehicles that would most certainly affect the sales of other cars relying on JTD engine. And that might force Suzuki GM Tata Ford Saab to end their reliance on Fiat.

Exactly why would Fiat want to do such thing and lose the royalty they get from Tata GM Suzuki Opel Ford Cadillac Saab and Vauxhall for the measly increase in the sales of their own vehicles ?
Well if royalty is what Fiat is interested in then Fiat should stop producing own vehicles right now and start advertising popular cars in India like Swift, DZire, Indica or Manza.


Anyway, I am good for next 15K KMs. I think I need a long drive in My Punto to overcome the torture I go through @ Tata Service Center. Till then "All is well...All is well"
Rock 'n' rollz is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tata Motors & its dealer Cargo Motors fined for selling used car as new! raghu.t.k The Indian Car Scene 11 6th May 2016 09:58
Tata Motors launches 'Tata Motors Service' for passenger vehicles GrammarNazi The Indian Car Scene 10 30th July 2013 11:21
Tata Motors & Prerna Motors New Car Buying Experience Dushie Indian Car Dealerships 22 29th December 2012 08:20
Tata Motors Enters Motorsports With “Tata Motors Full Throttle”! fiat_tarun Indian Motorsport 28 16th September 2012 12:16
Funfilled Weekend for Customers courtesy Tata Motors, KHT Motors and Aadya Motors anujmishra Indian Car Dealerships 9 27th May 2012 16:47


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:03.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks