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Old 17th July 2010, 10:10   #16
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Tavera sells. A constant 1500+ numbers every month. Perhaps GM is wary of losing cabbie business in metros, hence a cheaper alternative.

Rural customers bought tavera mainly because of the Isuzu powertrain, which have been serving them from long back in the ambassador.

PS: I recollect that MG rover engine is equally noisy. Performance will sure be better.
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Old 17th July 2010, 10:44   #17
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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
I've seen the Rhino's fairing better on highways & has not only given the looks of Qualis but has stood upto the performance of Toyota's engines too. I'm quite surprised to see as why, a industry lead like, GM couldn't get an engine all by themselves & have to depend on local market for it. Must be some hidden strategy.
I had a chance to sample the non crdi engine of Sonalika and its is hopeless.

Too much vibes, the whole body shudders during gear-shifts with iffy handling.
Huffs and puffs post 90kmph and the A/C is actually air-cooler and not conditioner.
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Old 17th July 2010, 10:47   #18
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Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
Tavera sells. A constant 1500+ numbers every month. Perhaps GM is wary of losing cabbie business in metros, hence a cheaper alternative.

Rural customers bought tavera mainly because of the Isuzu powertrain, which have been serving them from long back in the ambassador.

PS: I recollect that MG rover engine is equally noisy. Performance will sure be better.
Correct. The engine is indeed noisy. I have taken a ride in a Rhino cab () and although the ride was quite good, I heard the engine more than I should have.

I am sure though, that GM with take extra care to keep NVH levels in check. Basically, it has to be down at the Xylo levels.
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Old 17th July 2010, 11:50   #19
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I have a feeling that the GM is planning for a Tavera replacement to be a good challenge for players like Bolero, Scorpio etc.

But the plans for new vehicle would have caught them off guard with the BS4 norms coming ahead, and for a stop gap arrangement would have planned to source engine for Tavera locally.
Again, I am just thinking loud.
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Old 17th July 2010, 12:34   #20
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No body gets caught off-guard by BS4 norms, it is just poor planning. They must have been hoping to have the Chinese MUV out by now for metro markets and move the Tavera to BS3 markets.

Guess the chinese MUV plans got delayed. I feel this Sonalika move is temporary and people should refrain from buying this engine as it will only be a stop gap arrangement. I feel spares will be an issue down the road.

Every manufacturers should be planning for BS5 now.
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Old 17th July 2010, 13:57   #21
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IIRC, there was a scoop by autocar(few years back !!) of a CRDi tavera doing testing. What happened to that? Logically, GM should depend on the ISUZU for the engine upgrade. And yes, it is better to refrain from buying this engine powered tavera as this is an adhoc reaction.
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Old 17th July 2010, 14:12   #22
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afaik GM and Isuzu are no more partners except for the agreements which are ongoing.
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Old 17th July 2010, 14:19   #23
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afaik GM and Isuzu are no more partners except for the agreements which are ongoing.
True. They can't depend on Isuzu anymore. They could have put a de-tuned version of the 2.0 VCDi powerplant from Optra Magnum, rather than source from Sonalika.
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Old 17th July 2010, 17:40   #24
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Gosh! then somehow streetsmart tuners will tune the VCDi to its full potential and the white tavera BS IV will reign havoc on the crowded streets.
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Old 17th July 2010, 22:49   #25
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both the rhino and the tavera use isuzu engines . sonalika stopped the mg rover engines and started using isuzu engines . so it is logical to use the same crdi engine as the current rhino engine also has a crdi variant ,which isuzu might have licesnsed to manufacture .
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Old 18th July 2010, 07:26   #26
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Rhino in its earliest version was powered by a turbo IDI isuzu. And then the lotus developed DI turbo was introduced, which met BS III standard only.

When competition(grande) is giving a 120 hp crdi, GM is stingy going for these engines which neither have parts availability or proven reliability.
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Old 19th July 2010, 09:50   #27
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Makes sense, IMO. GM's 2 litre common rail from the Captiva is probably too expensive. It would be very expensive to bring in new tooling for a brand new engine, or design a whole new one, especially for an older model like the Tavera. This would benefit both, as GM is sure to make improvements to the NVH, which will hopefully be passed on to both Tavera and Rhino customers.
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Old 19th July 2010, 22:15   #28
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No one buys a Tavera for its looks, neither for the badge. The MUV built quite a reputation for its durability, chief contributor of which was the engine. It wasn't the most powerful, but boy it could last the run. IIRC, GM used to brag of how the engine will easily do 3,00,000 kms - at the minimum - before requiring a rebuild.

I'm left surprised by this development. As 4x4addict says, BS IV didn't catch anyone by surprise. Manufacturers were given sufficient time to prepare. GM's clear shown a weak spot here. First of all, they have exposed their R&D incapability...I mean, how difficult could it be for a GM to bring the Tavera's engine within BS-IV norms? Second, they could have easily plonked a detuned version of the 2.0 TDCi. Say 90 - 100 BHP? If you can offer that engine to the aging 150 units a month Optra, why not a 1,500 a month MUV?

I'm not confident of the durability of Sonalika's engine. And in the MUV market, longevity can make or break a deal. Just ask Toyota.
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Old 20th July 2010, 00:02   #29
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I'm not confident of the durability of Sonalika's engine. And in the MUV market, longevity can make or break a deal. Just ask Toyota.
Sonalika are planning in to get the isuzu d-max as well. so , I am sure the report is not correct .I am sure it is going to be an isuzu engine and not a sonalika engine developed with assistance from Lotus .
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Old 20th July 2010, 00:59   #30
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GMs product planning is more about Fire fighting than thinking ahead. They knew this would fall on them more than 2 years ago, and the former worlds largest co. have relied on a total novice to supply powerplants.
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