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Old 28th April 2011, 16:20   #211
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

I don't think TATA is serious about marketing FIAT cars via their dealerships. They are obviously giving them step-motherly treatment. It hurts to know that such a reputed car company worldwide have such shoddy service in India. AT times i wonder how they managed to pick up Ferrari!!
But I guess, Fiat will inevitably leave India once more for good. It happened in the past, and history has an uncanny way of repeating itself. This is the only reason i do not give into my temptations of indulging in the t-jet (that car is truly 'paisa vasool').

Cheers!
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Old 28th April 2011, 16:29   #212
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

Plus the attitude of Tata Motors. I have never received a Test drive of a Tata/Fiat car on a weekend. I mean, do I have to take an off on a weekday to test drive a car?
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Old 28th April 2011, 19:15   #213
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

I am still inclined to buy Linea T-JET, I can only hope that I will get trouble free car otherwise I know I will have to suffer a lot.
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Old 28th April 2011, 20:23   #214
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

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Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar View Post
I am still inclined to buy Linea T-JET, I can only hope that I will get trouble free car otherwise I know I will have to suffer a lot.
You see that is what I am talking about. You are not confident of getting a FIAT. You are always wondering what if some part goes wrong;as then the cost of spares will be high. I know this might not be true (current FIAT owners can testify) but then people think like that. FIAT have a tough task of changing the way people think about their brand.
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Old 28th April 2011, 21:02   #215
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

I doubt cost of any spares will be too high, or that FIAT will reach a position to have to shut shop in India. This is simply because of its tie up with Tata Motors. Even now financially FIPL is not in a bad position at all, even if monthly sales barely reach the 2000 mark. They are more than happy selling the 2000 FIATs and making another 2-3000 Tatas, not to mention making a large number of engines for them.
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Old 28th April 2011, 21:33   #216
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

I dont doubt that FIAT is in a bad financial position. The royalty payments on their engines must be a steady source of income. But as a car manufacturer they are not doing as well as they should.
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Old 25th May 2011, 11:14   #217
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

We Expect The Industry To Grow Further : Rajeev Kapoor | Interview | Wheelsunpluggd
Quote:
Q:How was 2010 for Fiat India?
2010 was not really as good as we wanted it to be...we started with really aggressive volume projections but the end was not really in line with what we expected..we launched 90hp Punto and T-Jet as you know in the year which were both received very well - both cars are basically for power enthusiasts...both cars have done very well but on the distribution side there were some weaknesses which both the companies have realised and are rebuilding that...you know there has been a major organisational change in Tata Motors and there has been a lot of new focus...the field team looking after Fiat has been reinforced now, new brand activity will be happening very soon...so both manufacturer and distributor have been very focused...but as I said, it could have been better...

Q: But 2010 was a good year for the industry in general?
Yes..if you are looking at industrial growth one has to do a slightly deeper analysis...2010 was an amazing year with respect to new car launches...Then there was also the entry of a major player, especially B and C sector cars...Volkswagen came in..then there was the Nano effect..As part of the automotive fraternity we are very happy about the overall growth... We expect the industry to grow further this year...but there have been major fiscal problems that have been putting pressure on the industry –increase in commodity prices and interest rates have been hardening...it has happened twice...also, there is a general inflation effect that is going on..but despite this uncertainty the overall outlook is still very good...

Q: Both the Punto and Linear are doing well agreed but this trend has not been uniform all over India?
See, what happens is that both are very powerful cars and when you go to smaller towns the need for power is not that much..these cars were launched for people who said they need more power...there is such a segment...but if you look at the total automobile scenario, when it comes to power segment the sale is slightly higher in Metros..But...we are doing good numbers, we are happy with the performance of both the cars...what happens really in the power segment, when the cars go on the road people start feeling that power does not really mean compromise with fuel economy and then they start understanding...one major shift that happened was that the petrol market has suddenly become smaller...if you notice, the industry has suddenly moved towards diesel because of the differential pricing and the steep rise in the cost of petrol in the last few months - what used to be 60:40 has become 80:20.

Q: The new CKD rules that have a lot of automobile companies concerned, will it impact Fiat India?
No, not at all! We have a business model that concentrates on local manufacturing..we make our own engines, we make our own cars locally...this is more for the CKD manufacturers...as for our position on it, we will go with what SIAM has said...we have approached the government on this to see if it is possible to have a re-look at it...give adequate time to the industry to gear up for it...such abrupt changes do cause problems...like it is not possible to put up an engine plant at such short notice..see, nobody wants to leave India as it is a very big market but the cost impact of 30% is a big burden...

Q: Last time we met you talked about a lot of interesting plans for India...Where are you on those plans and what can you tell me about 2011?
See...what we are doing is taking insights from our experience in 2010...we all agreed that we need to do a far more aggressive job on building our brand together...the study told us that all has not been forgotten, the brand still has some of the past memories attached to it even though I reinforced my spare parts pricing – today we are not the cheapest but we are not the most expensive either...we have a 168-strong dealer network across India...the fact that we were ranked 2nd by JD Power for quality of service behind Maruti says a lot...

Q: At the last Auto Expo you had shown a bi-fuel car with very clever packaging of the alternate fuel tank...what is the status on that?
See we did a study and we are still very excited about it but...there is a small catch that has affected this...we do not want to launch a car in which the kit is fitted outside the manufacturing lines...that is the model currently being followed in India...but our design has the kit integrated into the car before it leaves the factory and when I do that the price impact is quite adverse...when we did the clinic, we found people were not ready to pay that kind of price...so it's got delayed but we are still talking about it...

Q: Where are you on the Dualogic automatic transmission plans?
That is very much on the cards, it is still being discussed...see we have a partner and whatever we launch here we have to give to Tata Motors too – it has to be able to fit their cars too..

Q: How has the Palio been doing? Is it time for it to be replaced?
Let me fill you in on the Palio...we have not upgraded it for Euro IV so it is available everywhere except in the Metros where Euro IV is compulsorily...we are not going to upgraded it either...we are working on an India-specific car and when that comes in, the Palio will have to go..currently we are selling it in small numbers because of which the price is high...It is not worthwhile to upgrade the engines though it would be much easier to upgrade the diesel than the petrol unit...also, if you want to launch a car at an attractive price then you have to invest a lot of money in it...the Palio is several years old now. So we are focusing on the small car now.

Q: The Palio is selling in Tier 2 cities but who is buying the Punto and the Linea?
Punto customers are generally the young ones...the car purchasing age has dropped to 26-27, people on their first job. Linea is bought by people who are about 35 to 45, moving up to a bigger car, from hatchback to sedan and going for a bigger car...with a family, married and who wants a car that is really stylish.

Q: There is nothing in your portfolio bigger than the Linea currently?
There is nothing in the Fiat stables currently but there are possibilities from the Chrysler portfolio, especially the Fremont...but no sedan as of now...

Q: Any thoughts on pre-owned cars? Will you be getting into that?
From next year onwards, perhaps...at present our car park is not suiting at present...

Q: Tata is setting up Fiat-only showrooms...what is that about?
There is a little confusion there...firstly, there are these two brand cafés coming up, one in Delhi and one in Pune...a very unique concept, nobody has ever attempted it... what we realised is that dealerships are getting short of space, so some expansion has to happen...but it will be need-based expansion.. We currently have Fiat-specific sales people already but now they will have a new uniform code to distinguish them from the other sales people.

Q: How is Fiat First doing?
Very well, I can tell you from personal experience. I like to do tests and the dealer usually does not know me...

Q: I understand Fiat India is getting into motorsport in India?
In a very small way...It's not really to boost anything...We are entering a Punto 90hp in the INRC as there is a diesel category this year, so let us see what the experience is like..

Both the Linea & Punto are very powerful cars ?? How can he say that when these very cars have been criticized for being underpowered.

The other interesting point was the comment about Fiat sharing everything that they launch in India with Tata Motors. So we will have a dualogic Manza when they finally do bring that gearbox to India ! There goes all Fiat's USP in India. I sometimes wonder why did they get into this partnership

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 25th May 2011 at 11:16.
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Old 25th May 2011, 11:33   #218
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

It would be utterly stupid of FIAT to give the TATA's the dual logic gearbox and the multi air engines.

For god's sake, do not give out the 1.6 mjd and the T-jet to TATA at any cost.

Else the TATA sales rep will have one more feather, "Sir the T-jet and 1.6 MJD is available in Manza, so why Buy Linea"
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Old 25th May 2011, 11:59   #219
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
It would be utterly stupid of FIAT to give the TATA's the dual logic gearbox and the multi air engines.

For god's sake, do not give out the 1.6 mjd and the T-jet to TATA at any cost.

Else the TATA sales rep will have one more feather, "Sir the T-jet and 1.6 MJD is available in Manza, so why Buy Linea"
Just a thought here.

If fiat is not going to share its technologies with any other OEM (especially tata) and not going to sell its engines(1.3/1.6 mMJD) to others, do you think the volumes will be as much as it is selling now ?
Also if the volumes are going to be what fiat's numbers are right now then would the price be the same ?

I am not telling sell technology to Tata anyways, but Fiat is getting numbers on its technology making it affordable to be pushed into its own cars.

Your thoughts please.
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Old 25th May 2011, 12:02   #220
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

So Fiat does not know what customer needs. He is saying power need is only for urban and not for rural. Nothing has been said on servicing the car. very sad indeed. Somehow I feel Rajeev Kapoor is not capable.
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Old 25th May 2011, 12:24   #221
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

I do not understand what is wrong in calling Punto and Linea as powerful. They offer powerful engines in at least one trim. If you want power, you have 90 HP and T-Jet. And Mr. Kapoor's comment about the need of power in urban areas is probably based on the sales chart. I am sure that T-Jet and 90 HP sell only in urban areas. In rural areas, people are not ready to pay such high price because they are least interested in the gizmos and gadgets that come along.

If they launch Linea 1.6 MJD (by importing the engine to keep the prices high, so that Tata does not bother about using that engine, just like 1.4 T-Jet), then they can plonk the same engine (with a better tuning) into Freemont. The 15L to 20L segment of crossovers is heating up, and Fiat can encash on that. But people will surely call it underpowered.

But from what I know, Freemont in Europe is expected only with the 2.0 MJD. But launching this engine will shoot the price towards the competition (Fortuner, especially). I cannot think of anyone who will prefer Freemont over Fortuner (except me ;-) ).

PS: why are there so many dots in that article? it is so irritating to read. I hope the writer/interviewer has reproduced Mr. Kapoor's words accurately!
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Old 25th May 2011, 12:31   #222
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

Reading that interview i can feel that they are living in their own bubble, either they are not aware of the problems FIAT India need to sort out first, or they have just closed their eyes and feeling everything will be fine itself lol
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Old 25th May 2011, 13:03   #223
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

I think in the answer where he says Linea and Punto are powerful cars, he was talking about the new variants only, ie the 90hp Punto and the Tjet.

As for Dualogic/1.6MJD variants of the Manza, I doubt this will ever be true. I dont think anybody would want to buy powerful versions of Manza. That is not the idea behind a Tata, which is why the 90hp Vista has fallen completely flat and is doing much worse than the Linea Tjets or Punto 90hpMJDs. Even if it does, I doubt it harm's FIAT in any way at all. FIAT's USP has never been engines. FIAT's USP's are solid build quality, great ride-handling package and stunning looks. Also, Tata chassis/suspension will never come close to FIAT for atleast 10more years.

As for their major issues, there are only two that I can think of. One is the build quality of their cars is still not consistent enough. Other than that, their major issue still remains service "perception".

Again, let me reiterate, its only service perception and not actual service quality. The problem is, even a small issue with the service in any FIAT car reminds people of the older times. I dont think Tata-FIAT service, especially for FIAT cars is actually any worse or any better than other manufacturer's. But they have still not been able to shake the perception of the past. Though I have to say, they make very good effort to do so.

I have to say, trying to differentiate the FIAT customer in the showroom's is a good idea. The major isssue is any Tata-FIAT showroom is always swarming with Indica/Indigo CS customers who come in by the droves. This leaves something to be desired when a person looking to buy something a bit on the premium side arrives at the door. So having different looks for the FIAT section, may be even have them on different floors or some such other solution would be welcome. Also this differentiation should be carried forward to the service experience too, separate dedicated FIAT service counters.
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Old 25th May 2011, 13:34   #224
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
FIAT's USP has never been engines. FIAT's USP's are solid build quality, great ride-handling package and stunning looks.
I beg to disagree. The MJD engine has brought much repute to FIAT in India.
Not that I am discounting the build, looks and handling.
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Old 25th May 2011, 13:59   #225
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

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Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
We Expect The Industry To Grow Further : Rajeev Kapoor | Interview | Wheelsunpluggd

The other interesting point was the comment about Fiat sharing everything that they launch in India with Tata Motors. So we will have a dualogic Manza when they finally do bring that gearbox to India ! There goes all Fiat's USP in India. I sometimes wonder why did they get into this partnership
+100

I did not know they have a clause where they are supposed to share everything with TATA, This is suicide.
Does it mean that if TATA is not capable of implementing the dualogic box FIAT will wait for them to grow technically?
This is utter stupidity, How is FIAT going to gain advantage in the market?

First TATA showrooms ignore perspective FIAT customers (And this I have experienced first hand) and then to top it up FIAT is sharing everything with TATA?

I feel Fiat has suffered while TATA has benefitted. Some one mentioned that FIAT has been selling more cars after the JV but I think thats because a change in portfolio (Punto & linea) rather than the JV.
I have been ignored by the sales staff when looking at the Punto but I just went near the vista and people rushed to explain how good the vista is. This happened in Mumbai.

I am guessing that Fiat must be earning a good amount from its sale of engines to maruti as those cars are selling like hot cakes.

The Fremont is a nice idea or they can try a van kind of car that they have in some countries, I dont remember the name.
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