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Old 21st June 2011, 12:00   #286
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

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Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
^^ This mentions that they are looking at separate showrooms and Tata Motors will still help with marketing.

Fiat India - please only give the Punto a interior facelift. It does not require an exterior facelift

Also came across this - Fiat may bring Sedici to India

This is a really good move if the news is true.
I really hope they at least live separately. The notorious Tata sarkaari sales stuff is rubbing off badly onto fiat. They arent concerned with selling cars, just finishing their shift and leaving for home.
And for the guys who decided a facelift was needed, what were they thinking? The only facelift or improvement that is required is in the interiors. Wake up Fiat!

fiat_tarun; tumhaare moonh mein ghee shakkar;

Fiat: please let us have our hands on the Sedici here; only dont give us rotten interiors again
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Old 21st June 2011, 12:07   #287
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

I dont think its possible to introduce the Sedici in India, considering that it was a joint development with Suzuki, which already has its hatchback version on sale in India as the SX4.

But I agree with Mr. Tata, that FIAT is just not aggressive enough, and willing to put enough money into India, especially in terms of product introduction.

FIAT desperately need to introduce the Panda/Palio in India, which will generate enough volumes to give hope to dealers, as they will face less of a risk of shutdown if they go only FIAT. Today even if Tata asks its existing dealers to go solo FIAT, they will say no, because FIAT just does not generate enough volumes to warrant an independent dealerships. This I think is a major issue.

FIAT need to be aggressive and bring in a lot of products and brands. I would like to see a product portfolio like below.

1. FIAT Panda/Palio (preferably the Panda, as the Palio will get bogged down with the old FIAT image)
2. FIAT Punto Evo
3. FIAT Linea
4. FIAT Bravo(CKD)
5. FIAT 500 (CKD)

This will encourage dealers to be reasonably optimistic about going solo FIAT. The Bravo and 500 may not sell in large numbers, but even keeping one in a showroom will help build the brand of FIAT. FIAT should also bring in the 1.6 diesel and 1.6 petrol engines into production in India.

Other than this, I think all the big cities should get a few dealers of Alfa Romeo, within existing FIAT showrooms. The 159 and the Brera should be introduced in India as CKDs. They wont sell in huge numbers, but will move the FIAT brand into the league of high quality car manufacturers in India, in the same league as Toyota, Honda, Skoda and VW. Lack of a car above the 10lakh bracket, keeps the FIAT brand a low end one. As of now, the costliest Tata is almost twice the price of the costliest FIAT.

I seriously think the Alfa brand will be a huge success in India. FIAT just have to be brave enough to introduce it in India.
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Old 21st June 2011, 12:29   #288
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

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I really hope they at least live separately. The notorious Tata sarkaari sales stuff is rubbing off badly onto fiat. They arent concerned with selling cars, just finishing their shift and leaving for home.
And for the guys who decided a facelift was needed, what were they thinking? The only facelift or improvement that is required is in the interiors. Wake up Fiat!

fiat_tarun; tumhaare moonh mein ghee shakkar;

Fiat: please let us have our hands on the Sedici here; only dont give us rotten interiors again
Everyone hopes for this, but the truth is with just two products that are just about selling, very few people would be interested in investing in a Fiat dealership.

I really hope the Sedici comes. India loves SUV's and a mini SUV with a great diesel engine will be the perfect recipe. If only wishes came true !

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 21st June 2011 at 12:33.
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Old 21st June 2011, 12:40   #289
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

@Julupani - The current 1.4 T-jet is actually available in various states of tune. I am not sure if they have a 1.6 petrol engine with Euro IV compliance. I completely agree with the 1.6 MJD is a must for Linea.

They need to rejig the product line up, may be as per my wishlist.

Reintroduce the Palio with different exteriors and different name with refreshed interiors. 1.2 Fire Petrol (slightly higher state of tune) atleast 75-80 bhp. 1.3 mjd 75 bhp version. price range 3.5-4.5 lakhs for petrol and for diesel 4-5 lakhs. Please ensure it has the most of the gizmos and decent space (atleast on par with the Palio).

Punto - Should come with 1.4 petrol and 1.3 VGT versions only and retain the current pricing. Introduce the 1.4 T-jet and 16.MJD as sport variants for the power hungry crowd (forms very little of the market)

Linea - Should come only in the 1.4 T-jet and 1.6 MJD Avathars. And for god sake get the dual logic gearbox for both the petrol and diesel. Retain the current pricing by locally manufacturing the engines at the Ranjangaon plant.

500 and Bravo needs to go the local manufacturing way with atleast 40% localization to keep prices in Check. However, the market is no definitely ready for a hatch like bravo.

For any of the products that you intend to sell, please ensure there are no niggles at least in the first 2 years of ownership

Please open a separate sales and service centers (from the current dealership owners to ensure no new fresh deposits are required) in the tier 1 cities to kick off with and then extend it to tier 2 cities wherever feasible.
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Old 21st June 2011, 13:02   #290
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Lightbulb Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

The fiat 500 costs 13 lakhs as a CBU

How will it be priced if it was fully localized?below the punto?
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Old 21st June 2011, 13:48   #291
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

Fiat India, the subsidiary of the leading Italian auto maker Fiat Spa, will soon be strengthening its product line-up and distribution network in the Indian market. The company will be overhauling its strategy in the Indian market to rebuild its brand equity in India. Recently, senior officials of the Italian car maker visited India to meet the management of the Indian unit.

In coming months, Fiat India will be rolling-out a number of new cars in the country that comprises of a face-lifted version of Punto hatchback and Linea sedan, as well as a new compact small car that will be shelved below Punto, as per the Industry sources.

As per a statement given by a senior official of the company, "Although Fiat India will look at separate showrooms; Tatas will continue to support the marketing efforts."
It is to be mentioned here that Fiat India currently sells its products through the sales network of its joint venture partner Tata Motors. Despite having two highly competitive car models in its Indian portfolio (Punto hatchback and Linea sedan) the company hasn’t been able to perform in the country as per expectations.

Source - Fiat ready to overhaul its strategy in India | CarTradeIndia.com
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Old 21st June 2011, 15:16   #292
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

I think Fiat should explore the option of tying up with Maruti (after severing ties with Tata).
This might seem a crazy idea, but Fiat cars in a Maruti showroom will have a positive impact on prospective buyers.
Tata showroom resembles more of a govt office whereas Maruti has a much more professional setup.
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Old 21st June 2011, 15:24   #293
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

The current lineup is the only 1 small car introduction in India nothing more than that, they should learn from Renault about the line-up and the dead line.
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Old 21st June 2011, 15:32   #294
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

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Originally Posted by bkbkr1212 View Post
I think Fiat should explore the option of tying up with Maruti (after severing ties with Tata).
This might seem a crazy idea, but Fiat cars in a Maruti showroom will have a positive impact on prospective buyers.
Tata showroom resembles more of a govt office whereas Maruti has a much more professional setup.
Why would Maruti take such a step ? I think if FIAT had an option they would have already gone to market leader Maruti instead of Tata in 2007 when they set up Ranjangaon plant.

Maruti already had rights to manufacture 1.3 MJD via Suzuki and GM but Tata needed it badly so they went in to joint venture with FIAT probably knowing fully well that it will be a loss making enterprise.
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Old 21st June 2011, 16:04   #295
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Why would Maruti take such a step ? I think if FIAT had an option they would have already gone to market leader Maruti instead of Tata in 2007 when they set up Ranjangaon plant.

Maruti already had rights to manufacture 1.3 MJD via Suzuki and GM but Tata needed it badly so they went in to joint venture with FIAT probably knowing fully well that it will be a loss making enterprise.
Just a thought sir... It's not that Maruti would initiate something like that. Fiat should and see whether it works out. These corporates can make it work in some way or the other.

In India, does Fiat have anywhere else to go except Tata and Maruti? Setting shops on their own, well, not too sure about that. Fiat doesn't have money problems, but whether they can wait for few good years before seeing any good ROI, is the question.
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Old 21st June 2011, 16:22   #296
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

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Originally Posted by bkbkr1212 View Post
Just a thought sir... It's not that Maruti would initiate something like that. Fiat should and see whether it works out. These corporates can make it work in some way or the other.

In India, does Fiat have anywhere else to go except Tata and Maruti? Setting shops on their own, well, not too sure about that. Fiat doesn't have money problems, but whether they can wait for few good years before seeing any good ROI, is the question.
Well lets assume even if FIAT approach Maruti for selling their vehicles and servicing them at their A.S.S I see no real reason for Maruti to accept the proposal , What is Maruti gaining out of it ?

Also VW has stake in parent Suzuki and there is no reason that they will help out rival Fiat in any manner.
Noticeably Maruti seems to have no decision making power at all locally and is fully controlled by parent for business decisions and it is quite clear from the way they pay royalty to the parent and make biggest income head of Suzuki.

FIAT India has cumulative loss of 970 crore Rs , being 50-50 Joint venture it affects Tata motors as well but probably they are bearing it for some reasons ( engines) but I see no reason why Maruti will put it's foot in this quick sand.

Last edited by amitk26 : 21st June 2011 at 16:28.
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Old 21st June 2011, 17:15   #297
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Well lets assume even if FIAT approach Maruti for selling their vehicles and servicing them at their A.S.S I see no real reason for Maruti to accept the proposal , What is Maruti gaining out of it ?

Also VW has stake in parent Suzuki and there is no reason that they will help out rival Fiat in any manner.
Noticeably Maruti seems to have no decision making power at all locally and is fully controlled by parent for business decisions and it is quite clear from the way they pay royalty to the parent and make biggest income head of Suzuki.

FIAT India has cumulative loss of 970 crore Rs , being 50-50 Joint venture it affects Tata motors as well but probably they are bearing it for some reasons ( engines) but I see no reason why Maruti will put it's foot in this quick sand.
Apologies for being so naive and stupid . Sorry.
Why is VW not using MS's network? They have only < 50 dealerships in India, I think?
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Old 22nd June 2011, 11:35   #298
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

Some people at Fiat are listening to feedbacks surely.
A month back, I walked into the VST Motors showroom on Mount Road( 2nd building from my office) and had a touch-n-feel session of the GP.The Sales Advisor and his boss tried to give me the sweetest deal possible, but horror stories of *** and even more horrible plastics pushed us away from our dream car. But I left my visiting card with them( we are a Wind energy MNC based out of Pune) and after that I have recieved 3 calls from Fiat Pune asking me detailed Qs about my perceptions regarding a Punto and WHY I didnt buy one.
I clearly mentioned I am a Fiat-Fan and so is wifey but we have seen the el cheapo plastics in a 6.5 Lacs car and the less said about the ***, the better. The person on the other side was very specific and asked me IF I know anybody personally who has suffered/ is suffering due to bad *** and I mentioned the name & vehicle details of Exec Director of one of our customer companies and how the *** in Kolkata has made him send his car to the service centre 40 away on 4 occassions just for a part which Fiat is unable to ship.
The response to this was " Sir we are trying to incorporate all the feedback, is there anything that can make u buy a Fiat GP? "
My answer was " Yes, get your massive sized dealership cum service centres at Prime locations in the metros( Sundaram Honda/ GM in Chennai, Mohan Motors- Kolkata, Ichibaan Honda in Mumbai ( saw that long back), all the VW/ Skoda dealerships at various metros) , park an Alfa GT/ 159 in Red at the entrance and tell ppl u will be able to ship all parts in 72 hrs flat and its your engine that drives a Swift Diesel.Sales will follow".
The man was speechless at the vengeance with which my Fiat-fanboy heart spoke out loudly.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 13:20   #299
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

I was crossing a TATA showroom en-route to my office and observed that that hoardings of Manza, Indica V2 and Safari. I could not find any mention of either Linea or Punto. This was the case with another shown in the heart of the city. The show had huge hoardings of Safari, but FIAT emblem only at the corner of their sign board and one car in display which is lonely. Even if you want to check the car, it is all your personal interest no sales man would turn around for the help or as part of his/her job. OK, let me not turn it to a TATA bashing here, but here are my two cents.

As I understand the JV is built around 2 simple points:
1. TATA to market/sell/service FIAT vehicles
2. FIAT to share the technology for TATA cars.

1. TATA to market/sell/service FIAT vehicles
a. From TATA side no ad campaign for FIAT vehicles in national/state TV channels and no major advertisements in the national print media.
b. TATA dealers do not show any signs of selling FIAT vehicles if seen from outside of the showroom. Only FIAT fans would know they are selling FIAT vehicles. No hoardings at their show room and major places in the city.
c. TATA dealers do not advertise FIAT cars in state print media or no local ad campaigns at malls/corporate offices. I see this happens very rarely, only to claim "we have done it".
d. Service: TATA dealers have recruited all FIAT ex-dealership employees and tried to do servicing. I do not think they trained them and make sure understand the necessity of change in attitude while dealing with customers.
e. Service area: No specific area allocated for FIAT owners at servicing centers to distinguish themselves from cab owners/drivers.
f. Service Quality: can not comment on this. But general perception is that no improvements are observed.
g. Spare parts availability: The dealeships are equally culprit in delaying the orders as they need pay the cash for spares. Can not understand why FIAT give them on credit.

2. FIAT to share the technology for TATA cars.
a. TATA acquired the Multi-Jet technology from FIAT and built Vista and Manza. They could not make them success even though Maruti has shown how to do it. In the case of Vista, they neither targeted cab market nor passenger market. The price is the problem for cabies and the name "Indica" the problem for passenger market.

In both the above cases TATA failed to use their FIAT advantage. It failed to push their sales using the available and proven technology and failed to sell FIAT cars. Fiat should be blamed for this JV for the reason of going blindly and thinking that their problems would all be solved by having technology alone and TATA takes care of the rest.

Any partnership would work if the objective is penetrated well enough at the ground level. I see this is not the case here. The top management is at the fault here not making enough efforts in penetrating at all levels. Now, they are going to press making things more difficult for each other. I think TATA's should clean their home before commenting on JV. I strongly believe FIAT CEO trusted Ratan Tata and entered the JV. One interesting piece is to note that FIAT yet to do the blame game.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 13:39   #300
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

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Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post

As I understand the JV is built around 2 simple points:
1. TATA to market/sell/service FIAT vehicles
As far as I know sales and service is TML responsibility through Tata Motors dealership chain and Manufacturing and Marketing is FIAT India's job , the manufacturing plant itself is in 50-50 joint venture
which is underutilized due to low sales.

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Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
2. FIAT to share the technology for TATA cars.
It is a different aspect , FIAT India sells engines to TML as separate deal and this is no charity.


Tata bears 50% in joint venture ( thus 50% of losses too) for the Ranjangaon manufacturing unit, Correct me if I am wrong.

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Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
1. TATA to market/sell/service FIAT vehicles
a. From TATA side no ad campaign for FIAT vehicles in national/state TV channels and no major advertisements in the national print media.
As far as I know these are FIAT responsibilities to maintain their brand and Tata is limited to dealership and service ( just like TVS used to do for some brands). Marketing a brand is different aspect.

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Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
e. Service area: No specific area allocated for FIAT owners at servicing centers to distinguish themselves from cab owners/drivers.
FIAT gets service at passanger car units at T.A.S.S now if Taxi fleet operators do not buy FIAT in bulk you can not blame them .
I see no reason why an A.S.S should discriminate customers based on thier profession or socio-economic background. I do not hear anyone stating that Taxi Innova drivers owners should be treated differently from Corola Altis owners at Toyota so why some other brand should do ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
f. Service Quality: can not comment on this. But general perception is that no improvements are observed.
g. Spare parts availability: The dealeships are equally culprit in delaying the orders as they need pay the cash for spares. Can not understand why FIAT give them on credit.
. I strongly believe FIAT CEO trusted Ratan Tata and entered the JV. One interesting piece is to note that FIAT yet to do the blame game.
On the contrary FIAT top boss is too smart alic and I strongly feel India is still not a priority market like Latin America for them and they seem to be happy with components and royalty earnings.

If Tata Motors buy engines , FIAT does not do any charity and earn revenue on each engine. FIAT India was on verge of closure before they tied up with Tata and still I am astonished how they sweet-talked Tatas to bear some 490 Crore of loss in 2 years.

Tata could have adopted strategy of letting FIAT close here and try to source engines either from elsewhere or wait till FIAT mallows to just provide engines for the money without any JV.

Last edited by amitk26 : 22nd June 2011 at 13:42.
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