Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th October 2010, 17:33   #481
Senior - BHPian
 
anachronix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madras
Posts: 3,250
Thanked: 1,241 Times
Default

^^ EP has alloys, Blue & Me & ACC. The T-Jet base should have these.

@Sid, I am sure you have got more info than what you have revealed here dude

The brochure please!
anachronix is offline  
Old 6th October 2010, 17:36   #482
BHPian
 
kaustubh_vaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 202
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

Yes Sid,
Please divulge the secrets you are holding back. I am looking forward to a full throttle test drive by GTO!!!
When is the test drive GTO sahib?

Regards,
Kaustubh
kaustubh_vaze is offline  
Old 6th October 2010, 17:38   #483
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: -
Posts: 4,705
Thanked: 3,845 Times
Default

Whatever I have written is absolutely understandable and self explanatory. I cannot post anything more, sorry. There is a limit to which I have a tolerence level and I don't want to create any more mockery or ruckus in any thread related to tata or fiat cars after my posts from now on. And yes, I have driven the car. Would rate it 4/5 as a product. That's it, nothing else.

Last edited by sidindica : 6th October 2010 at 17:43.
sidindica is offline  
Old 6th October 2010, 17:47   #484
BHPian
 
kaustubh_vaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 202
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

I have had this question since a long time -
Can a kit be built from the Linea TJet package which can be directly bolted on the older Palio 1.6?
Can the head on the Palio 1.6 be now changed to the GDI head from the Linea? I mean will it be that simple? According to some other posts on the forum, the 1.4 and the 1.6 share similar engine characteristics including the head design.
I am not sure if I missed out on a critical point here.
But this seems feasible and could be made reliable as well!

Regards,
Kaustubh
kaustubh_vaze is offline  
Old 6th October 2010, 18:48   #485
BHPian
 
sunnyside's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 66
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
And yes, I have driven the car. Would rate it 4/5 as a product. That's it, nothing else.

Thanks for the info, can you please also answer (If T-jet is 4/5)

1. What was your rating of Non T-Jet Linea Petrol.
2. What other cars in the same bracket have more than 4/5
sunnyside is offline  
Old 6th October 2010, 19:48   #486
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bengalooru
Posts: 1,471
Thanked: 7 Times
Talking

This statement is an insult consumers in general and car buying public in particular. If somebody pays then they expect perfection relative to the amount they paid, irrespective of the brand. Its another point some brands don't match up in this respect
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
I think with Fiat people will expect 120% perfection (they can live with 70-80% perfection with maruti, 75% perfection with hyundai and 45% perfection with Honda) ...
My friend was looking for diesel hatch. When we went to check out Vista, sales guy handed the brochure and said they had aqua, aura, aura+, terra, quadrajet, safire, tdi, common rail, sde, turbo, and we lost him. My friend didn't get any of these terms. I walked out confused. But my friend was sure that he didn't any of these models . He is driving Figo now. Honestly, even after seeing Vista spec page, I can't make out which model to recommend to who. Already people are confused between petrol & diesel, trim levels between variants and engine variants add to more confusion.
People don't care if its Quadrajet or TDI, as long as they understand the benefits. It basic common sense - if people don't understand the benefits, they won't pay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstguri View Post
C'mon Sid', do you actually think that having more variants kills the products!
What is benefit for normal Linea over T-Jet Linea? For 15K more, i.e., if you pay 1.5% more, you get more power and better FE. FIAT must replace normal Linea with T-Jet, if they intend to do better their sales figures. More variants will add to confusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaddleShifter View Post
Acc to one friend, Autolinks told him that T-Jet will be priced 15k more than current Linea.

Last edited by diabloo : 6th October 2010 at 19:50.
diabloo is offline  
Old 7th October 2010, 00:15   #487
Senior - BHPian
 
architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ghaziabad, U. P
Posts: 1,275
Thanked: 448 Times
Default

@diabloo

Manufacturers do unfathomable things at times which seem to defy logic and also confuse and ultimately chase away customers. Sometimes, they have a plan, which may work. Or, they probably have funny ideas. I don't think we have answers to some of these:

Why does a Tata-Fiat showroom have so many competing cars in different engines and variants lined side-by-side?

Why does Ford come out with a Limited and a Special edition every few months?

Why does Maruti have competing cars with the same engine in the same segment (Estilo and WagonR and I daresay, Swift and Ritz)?

Why did GM the price-cut strategy with the Spark and left every recent owner calculating their resale and fuming?

Why does Honda skimp on certain features until a competing car starts giving them at a cheaper sticker price (e.g. launching anniversary edition of NHC with ABS-Airbags due to 'SX4 effect' or launching a version of the ANHC with alloys and climate control due to 'Linea effect')?

Why does Toyota take so long to increase production capacity to meet demand? (By the way, I do think I know the answer to this one!)

I wish understanding the intentions of automobile manufacturers was as easy as giving advice, like we do on these forums.

Last edited by architect : 7th October 2010 at 00:16.
architect is offline  
Old 7th October 2010, 03:18   #488
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Shimla, HP
Posts: 109
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by architect View Post

Tata-Fiat have competing cars lined side-by-side?
Linea and Manza don't really compete with each other. Different type of response from the engine and drive is totally different not to mention non of the Manza's have ACC or Alloys. Not to mention Manza has too much of Vista in its looks.

Vista/Indigo CS and Punto do bang heads in my book and its really more of a ladder type choice than anything else.

Quote:
Ford Limited and a Special edition every few months?
Boost the model the most of Fords models are pretty old and have mothballs on them. Ford being the idiot that it is has not done much recently than Figo and new models of Endeavor where is the Focus been waiting since 2003 for its release :(

Quote:
Maruti competing cars same engine same segment
Its all about choice Maruti being the small car king likes to put more choices out there so that people checkout Maruti cars alternatives instead of a company alternative.

Quote:
GM price-cut strategy Spark resale and fuming?
Threat from Alto K10, New i10 among others better alternatives.

Quote:
Why Honda skimp features competing car giving cheaper price
Honda is seens as one of the best brand in India and Honda knows it. They will try and make money of this and thus strip out all non required features "Safety or otherwise" to gain more profit.

There is no real Indian crash test std. thus people here think the scores on NCAP are valid for cars like city but its not so mainly due to the lack of critical features. I hope India gets a real real Indian crash test std. with governments help.

Also another example of feature skipping can be seen from Skoda in the form of late CRDi entry "Cruze effect"

Last edited by .anshuman : 7th October 2010 at 16:35. Reason: Fixed Quote Marks. Thanks
ajai_dev is offline  
Old 7th October 2010, 09:25   #489
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bengalooru
Posts: 1,471
Thanked: 7 Times
Talking

TATA marketing wants to offer 'choice' to customers. It ASSumes sales know the difference between these 'choices' and can inform the user.
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect View Post
Why does a Tata-Fiat showroom have so many competing cars in different engines and variants lined side-by-side?
Ford marketing head believes in flogging the dead horse.
Quote:
Why does Ford come out with a Limited and a Special edition every few months?
The car looks different for God sake, I mean though the engine is same, people can see the difference between Alto, AStar, WagonR or Estilo and choose whatever they like. Unike Vista, where all the 100 'choices' look same.
Quote:
Why does Maruti have competing cars with the same engine in the same segment (Estilo and WagonR and I daresay, Swift and Ritz)?
GM marketing was over confident. Now they getting their foot with Cruze.
Quote:
Why did GM the price-cut strategy with the Spark and left every recent owner calculating their resale and fuming?
Honda added the features and charged price for these features. Just like Linea petrol was skimped and Fiat is giving T-Jet due to 'Vento effect' Also why did Maruti skimp AT in SX4 and launched later?

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please avoid derailing a thread with comments that are inflammatory and off-topic. Thanks.

Last edited by Amartya : 7th October 2010 at 11:06. Reason: OT comments removed.
diabloo is offline  
Old 7th October 2010, 10:22   #490
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Greater Bangalore
Posts: 421
Thanked: 31 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
pics from a polish website for representation purposes only. No other details available. No, neither I have seen nor driven the car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeshnair View Post
So..Fiat has not yet thought of improving the already horrible build quality!!!
Brothers.. Read Sidindica's quote. The first page Linea pics are not from India.

Last edited by Amartya : 7th October 2010 at 11:07. Reason: Removed reference to a post that has been edited
EARTHed is offline  
Old 7th October 2010, 10:26   #491
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Panchkula
Posts: 249
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
pics from a polish website for representation purposes only. No other details available. No, neither I have seen nor driven the car.
Well, I think better photo could have been posted. Here is a clean engine compartment of T-Jet.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by .anshuman : 7th October 2010 at 12:29. Reason: Removed reference to a post that has been deleted. Thanks
PaddleShifter is offline  
Old 7th October 2010, 10:31   #492
Senior - BHPian
 
architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ghaziabad, U. P
Posts: 1,275
Thanked: 448 Times
Default

@diabloo.

My previous post was put up as an agreement with you in terms of skewed marketing strategies of Tata-Fiat and especially w.r.t. to the unpleasant experiences of your friend in choosing a diesel hatch. I empathise with your friend.

However, because I brought in some other manufacturers in the picture, somehow you took this up as a personal challenge and seem to 'justify' policies of all manufactures except Tata-Fiat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
TATA marketing wants to offer 'choice' to customers. It ASSumes sales know the difference between these 'choices' and can inform the user.
I agree. Good assumption by Marketing. Bad execution. However, when I seriously see a marketing strategy failing, I would make amends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Ford marketing head believes in flogging the dead horse.
Only Ford? The Accent "executive" and the Santro GL and GLS versions are not dead horses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
The car looks different for God sake, I mean though the engine is same, people can see the difference between Alto, AStar, WagonR or Estilo and choose whatever they like. Unike Vista, where all the 100 'choices' look same.
So you get everything with the same internal mechanics but a different bodyshell? Hmm, okay, maybe you're right. Maybe it's just a case of exploring all possible niches of the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
GM marketing was over confident. Now they getting their foot with Cruze.
Time will tell. That still doesn't make the move they made at that time any less stupid, does it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Honda added the features and charged price for these features. Just like Linea petrol was skimmped and Fiat is giving T-Jet due to 'Vento effect' Also why did Maruti skimp AT in SX4 and launched later?
I don't really believe the T-Jet has been launched due to the Vento effect, since it has been long in the pipeline. But then, every launch is a response to some competition. However, the addition of airbags and ABS in the NHC was most definitely done as a counter to the SX4 which had these as standard in the ZXI. If Honda would have been that safety conscious, these features would have been there on the NHC Gxi from day one.

For people who are aware of Toyota's manufacturing practices, it is common knowledge that Toyota does not increase production levels until they get their quality right. In many plants they have been known to produce only one car per day in the initial days and continue to do so until they get it absolutely right as per their quality standards. Can you imagine a production line with a capacity of 100 cars per day making only one? In the initial stages, they are known to have slow production.

I re-iterate that I think I know the answer because only Mr Sandeep Singh can give you the correct answer.

Last edited by Amartya : 7th October 2010 at 11:10. Reason: Removed reference to a post that has been edited.
architect is offline  
Old 7th October 2010, 10:42   #493
UKR
BHPian
 
UKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Trivandrum/Bangalore
Posts: 90
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
TATA marketing wants to offer 'choice' to customers. It ASSumes sales know the difference between these 'choices' and can inform the user.
They should train their people and may be conduct weekly tests to check their awareness about different variants. But again as you put, with all the 100 variants looking the same, they themselves would be confused as to which variant has what. Well mostly agree to your observation except that,

- The ASSumption is valid for any other brand including the haloed ones like Honda or Maruti. In fact the arrogance, the 'take it or leave the showroom' attitude that these guys display are outright cheap and mean. I am talking from my experience. Toyota I would say is an exception, in fact their good name in the *** department is well deserved.

- This statement could also be taken as an insult to the general Indian car buyer as it implies that they are totally ignorant and wants every little information to be spoon fed to their brains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Ford marketing head believes in flogging the dead horse.
Agree. In fact they believe in releasing an unlimited number of limited editions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
The car looks different for God sake, I mean though the engine is same, people can see the difference between Alto, AStar, WagonR or Estilo and choose whatever they like. Unike Vista, where all the 100 'choices' look same.
Again an insult to the general Indian car buyer for assuming them to be ignorant and unable to check what is under the hood and go just buy the outer skin. Well then as you had implied, Maruti knows this fact too well that a majority don't give a damn about what is under the hood and take the plunge just by the looks, hear say and brand name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Honda added the features and charged price for these features. Just like Linea petrol was skimmped and Fiat is giving T-Jet due to 'Vento effect' Also why did Maruti skimp AT in SX4 and launched later?
Linea petrol was introduced with a moderately powered engine but then the price was also that much only. Agree that Fiat was not smart enough not to skimp on plastic quality. Unlike the Honda City where they skimped on every thing from fog lamps, alloys, ACC, engine guard, tyres, cd player, remote boot release, chrome inserts, sheet metal thickness, rear ac vent, blue tooth, steering control and what not which you could find even in some hatches let alone the Linea, but still priced it astronomically high in the name of engine, power train and brand. I don't have anything against Honda, their petrol engine is the best in class, fit and finish is also better than Linea, but that alone is not worth the premium they are charging. I would say their *** is average at best(you can find threads in this forum itself) and is nothing to write home about. And to add insult to injury, they are offering adding some features and increasing the prices. But again as you implied in the case of Maruti models, Honda also know the general Indian car buyer too well.

Last edited by Amartya : 7th October 2010 at 11:11. Reason: Removed reference to a post that has been edited.
UKR is offline  
Old 7th October 2010, 11:11   #494
Senior - BHPian
 
architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ghaziabad, U. P
Posts: 1,275
Thanked: 448 Times
Default

UKR, the point in my previous posts was that at some point, every Indian manufacturer has been guilty of "insulting" the Indian Car Buying Public.

I started in an effort to analyse WHY the T-Jet may not be a sales success despite being a competent product. Now we are attacking / defending the whole bunch of Indian manufacturers, based on our loyalties and fanaticism.

Last edited by Amartya : 7th October 2010 at 11:18. Reason: Removed reference to another member's post.
architect is offline  
Old 7th October 2010, 12:03   #495
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pune, Vasai
Posts: 157
Thanked: 84 Times
Default

@UKR get your facts right. some of the things you mentioned (rear AC vents, steering controls) are actually present so when you say you dont have anything against Honda its hard to believe. Sales and service (form what I have experienced) is top class. Honda reliability is top class (used the OHC model for more than a decade without any problems)

Last edited by .anshuman : 7th October 2010 at 12:17. Reason: Please do not quote an entire large post. Thanks
crazyro is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Terrestrial Fighter Jet : Fiat Linea T-Jet+. EDIT: 3 years, 4th Service completed KarthikK Long-Term Ownership Reviews 220 8th April 2015 00:19
Renaissance of my JET - White FIAT Linea T-Jet+ (27,000 Kms Up) Sathya_sc Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 225 4th August 2014 20:29
The Perfect Gift – Hip Hop Black Fiat Linea T-Jet. EDIT: 1,000 kms up azhar915 Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 39 31st March 2014 21:02
Fuelled FIRE into my (T)JET - The Fiat Linea T-Jet bnzjon Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 123 12th May 2013 00:16


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 03:32.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks