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Old 3rd August 2010, 15:36   #91
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Originally Posted by ntrack View Post
First of all the official power rating is not yet released & we are debating on speculations of it being 110 bhp. I'm quite sure it will be more than that.
110bhp is what was mentioned at the auto expo.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 15:49   #92
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110bhp is what was mentioned at the auto expo.
You're right.....but its not the official figure of the launch. Even the diesel became 93 ps from 90 ps after BSIV. So lets wait & watch

Last edited by ntrack : 3rd August 2010 at 15:53.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 16:15   #93
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@Aseem
Will you pay the same money for a Fiat Linea that you pay for Honda or Skoda? I don't believe so. You get what you pay.
FYI Skoda is not doing too well either.
Will I pay the same money for Fiat that I pay for a Honda or a Skoda??? Why NOT if the product warrants it in the first place, than I sure damn will.

The fact of the matter is we are simply not getting what we pay for in this case. Take for eg Punto, it sure damn charges more than what a Swift with the same engine commands.... So Punto owners are paying more than they would do like-for-like if they were to buy a Maruti.

They sure would be happy and Punto sales will surely sore if Fiat gets the following right:
1) Dated Interiors
2) Tata like Fit and Finish of the plastics that would even make a Maruti owner proud (Maruti are not that great to begin with)
3) Sad state of tune of the engine (where is the power going?)
4) Sad gear ratios (Even then 90 PS Punto is not feeling quick)
5) Quality issues from what I have heard, read, seen, like tyres getting uneven tread ware, plastics falling off, chrome glue, driver seat going down, and what not

There is no car that comes as close to looking good on the outside than Linea and Punto, and its well acknowledged that they have superb handling, but leave alone A.S.S if the manufacturer cant get the above things right in a NEW product, what the hell would happen when it gets old?

Thats what takes buyers like me away from Linea and Punto. Believe me at 7-9 Lakh odd, they are not cheap, and we get a lot more for what we pay for when we buy a Swift, i20, SX4, City...
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Old 3rd August 2010, 16:53   #94
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Will I pay the same money for Fiat that I pay for a Honda or a Skoda??? Why NOT if the product warrants it in the first place, than I sure damn will.

The fact of the matter is we are simply not getting what we pay for in this case. Take for eg Punto, it sure damn charges more than what a Swift with the same engine commands.... So Punto owners are paying more than they would do like-for-like if they were to buy a Maruti.

They sure would be happy and Punto sales will surely sore if Fiat gets the following right:
1) Dated Interiors
2) Tata like Fit and Finish of the plastics that would even make a Maruti owner proud (Maruti are not that great to begin with)
3) Sad state of tune of the engine (where is the power going?)
4) Sad gear ratios (Even then 90 PS Punto is not feeling quick)
5) Quality issues from what I have heard, read, seen, like tyres getting uneven tread ware, plastics falling off, chrome glue, driver seat going down, and what not

There is no car that comes as close to looking good on the outside than Linea and Punto, and its well acknowledged that they have superb handling, but leave alone A.S.S if the manufacturer cant get the above things right in a NEW product, what the hell would happen when it gets old?

Thats what takes buyers like me away from Linea and Punto. Believe me at 7-9 Lakh odd, they are not cheap, and we get a lot more for what we pay for when we buy a Swift, i20, SX4, City...
I own Punto MJet since 1 year clocking 14000 KM with 2 services done with couple of long trips. I do not agree with your points (1) & (5). I always had the best service from Prerana Motors, Hosur Road, Bangalore. I also own a Swift & you just can't compare these 2 cars. When you are driving a swift @ 80-100 KMPH you feel as if you are driving fast while Punto you still feel that you are in a very comfortable speed.

Regarding (3) & (4), at least in majority cases, we are not going for a race, and the car is comfortably quick & can be easily driven @ 130-140 KMPH (in between cattles & dogs in India and not sure how safe this speed is).

When someone say quality, I think people need to be clear. Quality of plastic OR Build/ Drive quality. Unfortunately at this price segment you don't get both together unless you are talking about BMW OR Merc. And you might think of VW or Skoda, they compensate quality it with 3 pot engine.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 17:12   #95
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my frnd TD'd the punto. he said: "pata hi nahi lagta ke 110 pe chal rahi he. kuch feel to aani chahiye!" ( you never realise you're doing 110!)
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Old 3rd August 2010, 17:38   #96
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Originally Posted by ntrack View Post
First of all the official power rating is not yet released & we are debating on speculations of it being 110 bhp. I'm quite sure it will be more than that.

Secondly, the ANHC does not feel like having 116 under its hood & feels shaky beyond 140kmph, the Linea in comparison is way ahead in handling, stability & poise. Also the ride quality.

After paying almost 10 lac for ANHC, what are the features one gets?

We keep talking about plastic quality.Fiat suffers in fit & finish, however, the overall quality & ruggedness is better than many others. Its the coarse feel of the dashboard that gives a 'cheap' impression (owing to the raised grain structure) & is the main culprit.

If you call the dashboard of Linea dated, then the interior look of Polo & Vento should be of stone age, same with SX4.

The fact remains that at the price what Linea is available - you can't ask for more (better fit finish not withstanding)
Have you really driven the ANHC coz I didnt find it to be that unstable. You have to agree that there are some quality issues with Fiat. If you keep ignoring then nothing will be done to improve it.
After paying 10 lakhs we dont get ACC but we get a engine which is great to drive, good quality of plastics, good A.S.S and peace of mind.
Dont mind paying extra for all this.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 17:50   #97
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Fiat needs to get it right this time. They have such wonderful products, dont know why they are screwing it all up (interior quality and performance being the top culprits) . Association with Tata motors is also not helping matters. IMO Its now or never for Fiat!
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Old 3rd August 2010, 17:53   #98
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Recently visited Concorde motors Bangalore, was generally checking with the service manager on the T-jet in his opinion the launch would depend on how Punto 90 HP fairs. Fiat would wait and watch, most probably if all went well the T-jet would hit indian roads by early next year.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 18:28   #99
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
They sure would be happy and Punto sales will surely sore if Fiat gets the following right:
1) Dated Interiors
2) Tata like Fit and Finish of the plastics that would even make a Maruti owner proud (Maruti are not that great to begin with)
3) Sad state of tune of the engine (where is the power going?)
4) Sad gear ratios (Even then 90 PS Punto is not feeling quick)
5) Quality issues from what I have heard, read, seen, like tyres getting uneven tread ware, plastics falling off, chrome glue, driver seat going down, and what not
I was curious as to how many Puntos you have driven/owned etc to have reached this judgement.

1.Dated Interiors : Agreed that the Palio had dated interiors, and they have stopped selling it.
Punto and Linea have one of the best interiors in its category. The only car to come with steering mounted call facility of all bluetooth enabled units in its category.
For my 7+ lacs, I got ABS, Airbags and all the bells and whistles in a diesel, which, unfortunately Maruti did not think important in its product line. So, my choice was obvious.
Please show me one diesel hatchback which has all the features and is equally involving to drive.(i20 has turbo lag issues: No I have not driven it, but all the major reviewers/mags/owners have said that and its 1lac more on road). I would like to know what part of the interior is actually dated?

2) Tata like Fit and Finish of the plastics
Yes.Agreed again. Some of the plastics are not of the best quality. But oh well, nothing has fallen off in my ride nor do I have any rattles after 15000 kms of aggresive driving.

3) Sad state of tune of the engine (where is the power going?)
What is the service interval of the Swift DDIS again?
How many Fiats have you seen with a broken engine? If my car goes long without giving me high service bills, I am happy. I am sure I dont want my car to be a Drag-spec diesel. Well, think of it, I have not heard of too many drag spec diesels either,have you?
It takes me nicely from point A to point B, masks speed very well and definitely not a slug (please drive one).
The 1.4 FIRE isnt a slow coach either. But yeah, it doesnt FEEL fast.

4) Sad gear ratios (Even then 90 PS Punto is not feeling quick)
So, How was your test drive feeling from the 90PS Punto?
Did the TD car have > 5k on the ODO? Have you read the feedback of the other Punto owners on the 5k change?
Feeling quick is different from going quick. If you really want to feel quick, get on a open tired car, you will know what it means (go-karts, formula maruti ??)

5) Quality issues from what I have heard, read, seen,
like tyres getting uneven tread ware : it was a camber issue.Fiat did the wrong thing. Not expected from a reputed manufacturer. But, the owner could have fixed it himself at a much lower cost than what he has already spent on new tires. This would have happened due to a mistake by the QC person before delivery. Manual error by individual costing Fiat a lot. But, this is not a brake failure or gas pedal getting stuck and was a one off case.
plastics falling off, : which piece of plastic from whose car? lets forget the TD cars since they are more abused than all the cars on road.
I havent heard any owner complain about parts falling off.
chrome glue :I guess this issue was identified by Fiat and fixed.
driver seat going down : same as above
and what not : what not?
Fiat had proactively fixed quite a few issues in the car as and when reports came up.
I dont want to sound like a Fiat fanboy, but, yeah, it does hurt a little when you are called a lunatic for buying a product which I chose after i did deep research based on my requirements. All products have their pros and cons. I had some requirements and a budget and only Fiat offered a product in that bracket. Must be the same for quite a few people.
I found the Fabia's interior quality a class apart, but it did not have quite a few gizmos. i.e. no USB etc..
Its easy to make cavaliar comments based on others' views. It takes some effort and some time to actually go down to Ground Zero and verify the same.
Swift is a really potent car and thats why its still the best seller. i20 doesnt wow anyone with its handling and still sells in very good numbers.

I do not intend to hurt anyone's feelings here. However, I feel that its justfied that we see a product for what it is.
We had a Dzire with a broken camshaft in this forum. This was due to oil leakage when the car underbody hit a rock. Well, it wont happen in a Ford or a Fiat because they have a engine guard plate below the engine bay.

I guess I have spoken enough.

Mods: I dont intend to flame. Please delete this post if it seems so.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 19:55   #100
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Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post

1.Dated Interiors : Agreed that the Palio had dated interiors, and they have stopped selling it.
Punto and Linea have one of the best interiors in its category. The only car to come with steering mounted call facility of all bluetooth enabled units in its category.
For my 7+ lacs, I got ABS, Airbags and all the bells and whistles in a diesel, which, unfortunately Maruti did not think important in its product line. So, my choice was obvious.
This post lost all objectivity when you stated that Punto and Linea have *best* interiors in their category

FYI: Indica, Figo come with bluetooth facility and the shoddy Blankpunt Audio system that comes in Punto aint that expensive neither does it sound good.

At 5+ you get Swift Zxi, the first car in its segment to offer Airbags, ABS, Climate Control, Alloys, etc. For that matter even Wagon R has steering mounted audio controls...
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Old 3rd August 2010, 20:06   #101
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
This post lost all objectivity when you stated that Punto and Linea have *best* interiors in their category

FYI: Indica, Figo come with bluetooth facility and the shoddy Blankpunt Audio system that comes in Punto aint that expensive neither does it sound good.

At 5+ you get Swift Zxi, the first car in its segment to offer Airbags, ABS, Climate Control, Alloys, etc. For that matter even Wagon R has steering mounted audio controls...
Parle vous anglais?

Read again. I clearly mentioned steering mounted call facility. So, I am not flogging a dead horse.

Why dont we have a ZDI in swift?

By 'best', I wanted to convey the various features. Anyways, I guess it was a incorrect usage. I guess it should have read 'most widely specced'.

I would love to see your response to the rest. Lets not avoid the point here.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 20:07   #102
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
At 5+ you get Swift Zxi, the first car in its segment to offer Airbags, ABS, Climate Control, Alloys, etc.
If i recall correctly, Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX SP/PS was the first hatch to offer Airbag(Driver Side Only) and Alloy wheels.

Correct me if I'm wrong!

Regards
Amith
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Old 3rd August 2010, 20:36   #103
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Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
Parle vous anglais?.
I speak English just fine, but my French is little rusty...
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Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
I was curious as to how many Puntos you have driven/owned etc to have reached this judgement.
I dont own a single Punto and have no intentions of buying one either as far me its quality simply falls flat.
As far as the number of Puntos/Lineas driven, perhaps 2-3 times, extensive test drive to write a review.
About the number of ownership reports read, magazine articles read... Gazillion!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
1.Dated Interiors : Agreed that the Palio had dated interiors, and they have stopped selling it.
We are all smart, but there is no need for cheeky responses. We can agree to disagree, but whats all tihs rambling about. Did I mention Palio. Clearly didnt. I said that Fiat is going the Cedia way. Cedia has gazillion features to boast of, but the basic dash is dated... See the point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
Punto and Linea have one of the best interiors in its category. The only car to come with steering mounted call facility of all bluetooth enabled units in its category.
I understand that your love for the car you own is clouting your judgement and its understandble. But best interiors??? Lets call a spade a spade. In any case, yes its loaded with features, but than again features dont make a car. As I have stated earlier, its not just my car has a music system, its a shoddy music system, the dash board material is shoddy, finishing is atrocious even by MUL standards. For that matter even Indigo Manza has better plastics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
For my 7+ lacs, I got ABS, Airbags and all the bells and whistles in a diesel, which, unfortunately Maruti did not think important in its product line. So, my choice was obvious..
Great for you that you brought the product you like. To each his own. But there are many features in 7+ lacs plus that your car doesnt have which you didnt feel worth mentioning... poor resale, poor after sales service, no rectractible mirrors, sunroof, 6th gear... Except MUL almost all manfacturers offer Airbags and ABS in their diesels, and rest all have some USP or the other. In any case Punto is loaded with features, its only the quality that I am questioning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
Please show me one diesel hatchback which has all the features and is equally involving to drive.(i20 has turbo lag issues: No I have not driven it, but all the major reviewers/mags/owners have said that and its 1lac more on road). I would like to know what part of the interior is actually dated?..
The whole dash is dated dude. They already have a new dash that they showcased somewhere. See the new dashboard pics for Punto and this one will start reminding you of the Baleno era.
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2) Tata like Fit and Finish of the plastics
Yes.Agreed again. Some of the plastics are not of the best quality. But oh well, nothing has fallen off in my ride nor do I have any rattles after 15000 kms of aggresive driving.
When I wrote about plastics, I was not writing about your car in particular, nor did I want to tick you off (which I inadvertantly did) but was grousing my dissatisfaction with the product and its manfacturer in general. There is a reason that they sell 2k cars per month...
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
3) Sad state of tune of the engine (where is the power going?)
What is the service interval of the Swift DDIS again?
How many Fiats have you seen with a broken engine? If my car goes long without giving me high service bills, I am happy. I am sure I dont want my car to be a Drag-spec diesel. Well, think of it, I have not heard of too many drag spec diesels either,have you?
It takes me nicely from point A to point B, masks speed very well and definitely not a slug (please drive one).
The 1.4 FIRE isnt a slow coach either. But yeah, it doesnt FEEL fast.
Well you seem to be quite content in justifying all the things that your car doesnt have are actually its U.S.P. Well it doesnt drive fast, but you dont need to drag. You are funny bro
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
4) Sad gear ratios (Even then 90 PS Punto is not feeling quick)
So, How was your test drive feeling from the 90PS Punto?
Did the TD car have > 5k on the ODO? Have you read the feedback of the other Punto owners on the 5k change?
Feeling quick is different from going quick. If you really want to feel quick, get on a open tired car, you will know what it means (go-karts, formula maruti ??)
Next time when manfacturers think of plonking a 100 bhp plus engine in a hatch, they should read your post. We dont want any formula muls in our streets... Its getting hillarious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
5) Quality issues from what I have heard, read, seen,
like tyres getting uneven tread ware : it was a camber issue.Fiat did the wrong thing. Not expected from a reputed manufacturer. But, the owner could have fixed it himself at a much lower cost than what he has already spent on new tires. This would have happened due to a mistake by the QC person before delivery. Manual error by individual costing Fiat a lot. But, this is not a brake failure or gas pedal getting stuck and was a one off case.
plastics falling off, : which piece of plastic from whose car? lets forget the TD cars since they are more abused than all the cars on road.
I havent heard any owner complain about parts falling off.
chrome glue :I guess this issue was identified by Fiat and fixed.
driver seat going down : same as above
and what not : what not?
Fiat had proactively fixed quite a few issues in the car as and when reports came up.
In the end my friend, denial is a state of mind!

Last edited by aseem : 3rd August 2010 at 20:39.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 20:49   #104
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^ agreed aseem, denial IS a state of mind.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 20:51   #105
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^ agreed aseem, denial IS a state of mind.
^^ True that!

Here is another one:

"A picture (your avatar) is worth a thousand words". Your Avatar tells a story!
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