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Old 10th August 2010, 20:55   #46
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Although figo is selling like hot-cakes, but i believe its not a step forward. What ford is doing is its selling a complete generation old body (fiesta hatchbak) with a minor facelift.
To make matters worse, the new lamps are actually the ones used in the previous gen. fiesta hatchbak in Europe.

Thumbs up to Hyundai and (especially) Volkswagen for treating us with the latest designs and new generation vehicles (and they dont cost a fortune over the figo).

What ford should have done is sold us the latest gen. Fiesta htachbak which they were happily testing alongside the figo. Fiesta hacthbak is already the bestseller in u.k. and i have no doubts it would have done well in India too. I mean if VW can price the world car of the year 'polo' well, surely Ford could have done something similar too if it had the balls.

Figo is no doubt a good car, but its hightime we (the so called biggest growing automotive market in the world) get the latest and the greatest cars.

And no figo won't be launched in 1.6, friend of mine working in the company claimed so sourcing the 1.6 is not cost effective (and no they don't want to use the old gen. fiesta hacthbak engine!!)
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Old 10th August 2010, 21:04   #47
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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
This is how I see it:
  1. IIRC, the 1.4 petrol mill was a Rocam unit and not Duratec.
Bottomline, expect to see some exciting hatches from Ford Stable!
Wrong pal, Both are Duratec, there is no rocam on Fiesta, just on Ikons. Durratec 1.4L is also BS4 compliant or can be made because it still sells in Europe.
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Old 10th August 2010, 21:33   #48
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I think so too. It is either meant for export markets (read South Africa) or meant to serve as a disguise while the real test is on the Global Fiesta.
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Old 10th August 2010, 22:38   #49
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Originally Posted by Bottom Torque View Post

Hi Brothers, this is my first post in Team BHP.

Welcome to the forum Bro ! I am sure you will have a fantastic time learning / contributing and making relationships here.

1. While successful models like i10, Swift are all undergoing facelifts and a near future launch, Ford might have kept this mildly altered Figo ready for a launch. And I guess, this time Ford cannot afford to lose the winning momentum.
I am not very positive about this -- Do they need to do testing for just adding a tail lamp? Are they trying to see whether the lights work? or is it fitting properly and not falling down?? For that they could better do it inside their factory [I remember GTO saying they have a good test track in the company premises] and sure they will have some one to monitor the functionality too ! [Hey..please dont feel offended, just putting down my thoughts here]

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Originally Posted by SafeDrive View Post
It's a known fact that a new model Fiesta is coming out next year. Maybe they are bringing out a hatch and a sedan for this. For the Figo, probably a diversion. if you notice the Figo did not get into side roads only the Fiesta did.
I am not sure how can the Fiesta hatch and sedan co-exist? How will they price these cars then? Am sure it will be a flop if Hatch is priced higher than Sedan, and if Hatch is priced below sedan, then whats the price point difference between Fiesta hatch and Figo? Another option is to price the fiesta hatch at current sedan's price and then move Sedan to a higher price point which is not possible at all. What are the equipment levels Fiesta sedan should have, if they need to raise the price that much ?! Also how will the customer's treat the new Fiesta sedan at that price?

Also, it was sheer luck / coincidence that I noticed the hatch -- I went behind the hatch from the non-driver side and took a U-turn right behind the hatch and came forward and clicked the pictures of the Figo which was parked in the front of fiesta hatch -- and I just didnt notice the fiesta at all!! All my attention was on the camo'ed figo !! The simple reason I didnt notice the hatch was because it didnt have any camo!! So the best way to hide the test car from anyone's notice is not to try to hide the car by stickering it.
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Old 11th August 2010, 00:44   #50
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Nice one. Ford seems to be testing the 1.6 engine undoubtedly.
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Old 11th August 2010, 10:34   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnkitPrashar View Post
Thumbs up to Hyundai and (especially) Volkswagen for treating us with the latest designs and new generation vehicles (and they dont cost a fortune over the figo).

What ford should have done is sold us the latest gen. Fiesta htachbak which they were happily testing alongside the figo. Fiesta hacthbak is already the bestseller in u.k. and i have no doubts it would have done well in India too. I mean if VW can price the world car of the year 'polo' well, surely Ford could have done something similar too if it had the balls.

Figo is no doubt a good car, but its hightime we (the so called biggest growing automotive market in the world) get the latest and the greatest cars.
+1
i sincerely hope all car manufacturers start treating us like they would treat an important and happening market, for Indian/chinese car sales are growing at a pace which no country can match for atleast another 10 years.
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Old 11th August 2010, 11:23   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnkitPrashar View Post
Thumbs up to Hyundai and (especially) Volkswagen for treating us with the latest designs and new generation vehicles (and they dont cost a fortune over the figo).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daewood View Post
+1
i sincerely hope all car manufacturers start treating us like they would treat an important and happening market, for Indian/chinese car sales are growing at a pace which no country can match for atleast another 10 years.
Well, I'll disagree with quite a few points here.

The scenario has largely changed now.
We are being treated importantly now. Its no longer that Maruti is dishing out only 20 year old cars to us.

We have the Swift/Ritz/i10/i20/Polo/Fabia/A-star/Micra/Beat/Jazz, etc.

All these cars are available internationally at the moment. None of them has been discontinued anywhere. Sure, we have older cars here as well but then its not a bad thing if an older generation (available at a lower cost) co-exists (ex. alto and a-star).


Quote:
Originally Posted by AnkitPrashar View Post
Fiesta hacthbak is already the bestseller in u.k. and i have no doubts it would have done well in India too. I mean if VW can price the world car of the year 'polo' well, surely Ford could have done something similar too if it had the balls.
Haha!! Dunno if Ford has 'balls' or not but am quite sure that blokes at Ford and other motor companies are working there arse orf assessing the Indian market scenario.


First of all, Fiesta hatch that is currently available overseas is not a direct competitor to Polo.

Secondly, even if you look at other manufacturers you may notice that they are not yet ready to go all out here.

1) Hyundai has no plans to lauch i30.
2) Maruti did not gave us international engines when swift was first launched. And we got it with older G13.
3) Jazz is far from selling well here.
4) We never got 3 door variants of many popular hatches here.
5) We do not have the 5 door SX4 here.
6) VW did not brought its highly acclaimed TSi motors here with its polo.
7) No plans for Golf either.
8) People still consider having a 3 box car a status symbol.

Also in the recent past Ford has burnt its fingers with the Fusion. And maybe this is the reason ford launched the Figo which is based on the fiesta we have here instead of investing more on a all new car.

Its after a bit of research that manufacturers launch products here. Still many a times things go wrong.

And these are just a few examples.

Point is India may be one of the fastest growing car market but still if you look carefully most of the sales is as expected concentrated towards the low end cars.

Still, demand for fresh cars like Jazz/i20 is rising.(relatively speaking).
And the fact that we have new cars coming here sure depicts that we are growing and the manufacturers are paying attention.

Nobody had ever thought 5-8 years ago that we'll have cars like Jazz, i20 etc. And maybe we may soon get i30, Fiesta hatch, Golf in years to come.


But if anything its surely not the case that manufacturers are not paying attention. It takes them a huge investment to launch a new car and they certainly won't like launching a new car that has little or no demand.




Quote:
And no figo won't be launched in 1.6, friend of mine working in the company claimed so sourcing the 1.6 is not cost effective (and no they don't want to use the old gen. fiesta hacthbak engine!!)
Still, I guess they don't have much of a problem with plonking a 1.6 motor from the current Fiesta 1.6 if at all they intend to lauch a Figo 1.6. They are using a 1.4 diesel that is from Fiesta saloon and a 1.2 that is basically based on the 1.6 petrol from current fiesta sedan. Anyways, coming from a trusted source there is no use debating much upon this issue.



Regards.

Last edited by YC.BALENO.CHD : 11th August 2010 at 11:30.
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Old 11th August 2010, 12:25   #53
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
The scenario has largely changed now.
We are being treated importantly now. Its no longer that Maruti is dishing out only 20 year old cars to us.

We have the Swift/Ritz/i10/i20/Polo/Fabia/A-star/Micra/Beat/Jazz, etc.
in this list except the Jazz and Fabia every other other car is a success.
isn't that a sign for carmakers that Indians lap up good and current products even if they cost a bit more. classic eg: i10, Polo and i20

Quote:
Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Point is India may be one of the fastest growing car market but still if you look carefully most of the sales is as expected concentrated towards the low end cars.
it will always be in any market. the bottom of the pyramid is always bigger. Citing that as an excuse and dumping generation old models is going to affect the carmaker himself in the longrun.
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Old 11th August 2010, 13:29   #54
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I just have one thing to say, if at all Ford launches the Figo 1.6 ltr 100 bhp, then most prolly it will be less than 6 lakhs OTR as the top of the line current petrol 1.2 comes to 5.3 OTR. We would very well have a hot contender and a replacement for the palio 1.6, though I cant comment on the ride and handling factor. The new affordable hot hatch.
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Old 11th August 2010, 14:38   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daewood View Post
in this list except the Jazz and Fabia every other other car is a success.
isn't that a sign for carmakers that Indians lap up good and current products even if they cost a bit more. classic eg: i10, Polo and i20



it will always be in any market. the bottom of the pyramid is always bigger. Citing that as an excuse and dumping generation old models is going to affect the carmaker himself in the longrun.

If you'll read carefully that list was the names of models that are modern in true sense of word and are those which are currently on sale not only in India but in international markets.


Yes it is but here if you will notice Alto sells much more than A-star (the current alto in international markets). Yes the difference in their pricing is a factor and it was the same few years ago when Alto was priced much higher than 800.

Once again the point is that people here are very price conscious.

Do you think people will be willing to pay more for a polo 1.6 over the 1.2?

Or for that matter, how many Palio GTX 1.6 were sold as compared to 1.2?

Again how many Fiesta 1.6 or Verna 1.6 are on roads as compared to their diesel siblings?

Its true that cars like Jazz still sell some 200 units a month.

But do you think that any manufacturer would like to invest in tunes of millions to launch an all new car here which has little or no market??

It sure as hell feels nice to people like us who are all so excited about such cars but think about the average joe..will he buy the new fiesta hatch for a 7 lakhs or will he buy a SX4/linea/Verna,etc. all of which comes with added status/convenience of a big boot?


Although it wish it wasn't like this but truth to be told an average car buyer in India is far from someone like us. He won't get excited about Swift or a Polo 1.6 or a large hatch at a price that many sedans in our market undercut.

And I really do not think that any manufacturer is citing any kind of excuses. Sure they are dumping a few generation old models here but they are offering new cars as well.

A very good example is the Maruti 800. Once the sales of this car hit an all time low Maruti is close to axing this model from its line up.


So ultimately its upto us buyers to change the market. Once there is enough demand manufacturers are sure to answer,

Ultimately, those are motor companies not some NGOs that are working on something like Welfare for Indian Car Enthusiast. They are here to make money even if it means selling decade old models. They are least cared as long as demand for such models is high and constant.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards.

Last edited by YC.BALENO.CHD : 11th August 2010 at 14:41.
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Old 11th August 2010, 14:47   #56
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I believe its not only the pricing which plays the card but the mileage as well.

For e.g. if Polo 1.2 & 1.6 are priced at the same points, how many people will still buy the 1.6 if the mileage is much lower? Also If the mileage of 1.6 is much higher than 1.2, then people will prefer to buy the 1.6 even if its priced decently higher [extra power and mileage are added bonuses even if the price is higher].

Probably its the same reason why the middle variants sell more than the high end variants [I believe I read the mid variants sell more then the top variants of the same models]. People are not willing to pay that extra cash just for some extra accessories when engine specs are the same.

Disclaimer: Please dont bash me if the sales of higher variant are more than the mid variant.
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Old 11th August 2010, 14:51   #57
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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
I believe its not only the pricing which plays the card but the mileage as well.

For e.g. if Polo 1.2 & 1.6 are priced at the same points, how many people will still buy the 1.6 if the mileage is much lower? Also If the mileage of 1.6 is much higher than 1.2, then people will prefer to buy the 1.6 even if its priced decently higher [extra power and mileage are added bonuses even if the price is higher].

Probably its the same reason why the middle variants sell more than the high end variants [I believe I read the mid variants sell more then the top variants of the same models]. People are not willing to pay that extra cash just for some extra accessories when engine specs are the same.

Disclaimer: Please dont bash me if the sales of higher variant are more than the mid variant.
Yes +1 to it. And by 'price' at many places I did meant both the purchase price and the cost of ownership/fuel consumption. Sorry for the confusion.

PS- Guess I too should add that Disclaimer!!

Regards.
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Old 11th August 2010, 20:29   #58
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post


First of all, Fiesta hatch that is currently available overseas is not a direct competitor to Polo.

Secondly, even if you look at other manufacturers you may notice that they are not yet ready to go all out here.

1) Hyundai has no plans to lauch i30.
2) Maruti did not gave us international engines when swift was first launched. And we got it with older G13.
3) Jazz is far from selling well here.
4) We never got 3 door variants of many popular hatches here.
5) We do not have the 5 door SX4 here.
6) VW did not brought its highly acclaimed TSi motors here with its polo.
7) No plans for Golf either.
8) People still consider having a 3 box car a status symbol.

Also in the recent past Ford has burnt its fingers with the Fusion. And maybe this is the reason ford launched the Figo which is based on the fiesta we have here instead of investing more on a all new car.

Its after a bit of research that manufacturers launch products here. Still many a times things go wrong.

And these are just a few examples.

Point is India may be one of the fastest growing car market but still if you look carefully most of the sales is as expected concentrated towards the low end cars.

Still, demand for fresh cars like Jazz/i20 is rising.(relatively speaking).
And the fact that we have new cars coming here sure depicts that we are growing and the manufacturers are paying attention.

Nobody had ever thought 5-8 years ago that we'll have cars like Jazz, i20 etc. And maybe we may soon get i30, Fiesta hatch, Golf in years to come.


But if anything its surely not the case that manufacturers are not paying attention. It takes them a huge investment to launch a new car and they certainly won't like launching a new car that has little or no demand.

Regards.
I clearly respect your opinion. Car makers are in a business to make money.
However, I think most of us sort of agree that new gen. cars like BEAT, Punto, POLO, i20 offer better quality, latest design and technology than the ford figo.
But the sad part is, its the Ford FIGO which has sold 25,000 cars in 100 days and not the others.

My only concern is that other automakers should not follow the same route in order to earn money and in turn provide us old models.

I mean how boring it would have been if the VW had got its old POLO or fiat had its old boxy Punto. Really all the buzzing news about the Indian auto industry wouldnt have been possible without these new entrants.

In the end, ford has earned money by playing it safe, but the only reason i am against them is because we have been denied a truly remarkable car in the name of Fiesta hatchback (trust me thats how good it is, i have driven it).

And Fiesta hatchback is in fact in direct competition to VW polo (Just like GOLF competes with Ford Focus in Europe). So if VW(Nissan or even Fiat) a new entrant ,could bring Polo to India, surely it would have been better if ford could have treated us with the Fiesta Hatchback.

Also ford is planning to launch the sedan version of fiesta hatchback in India soon. So technically it shouldn't have been much of a problem for them to make the fiesta hatcback just like vw did with polo and vento.

this is just my opinion (Disclaimer:I am not trying to offend anyone don't BEAT me!!)

I could be completely wrong and Ford could launch the fiesta hatchback in India as a premium Hatch and price it over Figo!!

p.s. i am a automobile designer and i closely followed the design development of the new fiesta hatchback. It is based completely on the old fiesta (figo) platform with almost similar dimensions.
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Old 12th August 2010, 18:00   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnkitPrashar View Post
I clearly respect your opinion. Car makers are in a business to make money.
However, I think most of us sort of agree that new gen. cars like BEAT, Punto, POLO, i20 offer better quality, latest design and technology than the ford figo.
But the sad part is, its the Ford FIGO which has sold 25,000 cars in 100 days and not the others.

My only concern is that other automakers should not follow the same route in order to earn money and in turn provide us old models.

I mean how boring it would have been if the VW had got its old POLO or fiat had its old boxy Punto. Really all the buzzing news about the Indian auto industry wouldnt have been possible without these new entrants.

In the end, ford has earned money by playing it safe, but the only reason i am against them is because we have been denied a truly remarkable car in the name of Fiesta hatchback (trust me thats how good it is, i have driven it).

And Fiesta hatchback is in fact in direct competition to VW polo (Just like GOLF competes with Ford Focus in Europe). So if VW(Nissan or even Fiat) a new entrant ,could bring Polo to India, surely it would have been better if ford could have treated us with the Fiesta Hatchback.

Also ford is planning to launch the sedan version of fiesta hatchback in India soon. So technically it shouldn't have been much of a problem for them to make the fiesta hatcback just like vw did with polo and vento.

this is just my opinion (Disclaimer:I am not trying to offend anyone don't BEAT me!!)

I could be completely wrong and Ford could launch the fiesta hatchback in India as a premium Hatch and price it over Figo!!

p.s. i am a automobile designer and i closely followed the design development of the new fiesta hatchback. It is based completely on the old fiesta (figo) platform with almost similar dimensions.
Hey Ankit - agree with your points. But we also need to think and understand that Ford was one company who burnt their hands by offering / introducing different model(s) ahead of others [& time] -- read Fusion. Definitely such a company will think twice before trying anything new. End of the day its all about sales and profit. But we also need to accept that they are trying to offer something different as well - read Fiesta 1.6. So we never know - they might bring the Fiesta hatch may be some time later. After all Indian community has already shown that they can love premium hatchbacks as well. So lets wait and watch. they will always wait for some one to take the initial shot, then wait and watch the game and then take a plunge[ofcourse, if the conditions are ideal].


PS: Looks like my disclaimer is getting too popular - am sure many will follow the suit - just like the companies waiting for some one to take the first shot.
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Old 12th August 2010, 18:17   #60
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I agree that some manufacturers like Hyundai and Maruti should be lauded for launching latest international models in India simultaneously with the rest of the world.

However they should be clobbered for not giving all the frills of the international models. To cite a few examples:-
  1. No DTE or glove box light in the i20
  2. No petrol engine above 1.2 litres among all new hatchbacks (so if Ford is plonking a 1.6 in the Figo, hats off to them)
  3. Poor quality plastics in most cars--the Punto is a leading example.
  4. etc etc---don't readily recollect others.
I feel that we deserve what is offered to the rest of the world, even if it is a little more expensive. The companies could also manufacture the cheaper variant for mass consumption.
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