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Old 30th December 2010, 11:35   #61
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Default re: How safe are our highways?

Vishwas,

I presume that the picture posted is the accident spot.

I also presume the braking marks on the road is of your car.

If yes, then i see that you have braked quite a distance. At the end , i see that you have turned to the right? why right? Turning right would have been more towards the truck which was turning right.

I think the car should have been turned to the left to avoid colliding with the truck.

Seeing the distance you have braked seems that speed could have been a bit more. I mean that you could have seen the speed on the meter, when the speed was reducing during braking.

I am just trying to analyse the accident. However, i feel all these analysis can be done after the accident so that we use our presence of mind during such crisis. I know how difficult it is to react properly in a situation to avert an accident.

Just see the picture and analyse for yourself. Let me know if what i have thought is right or wrong.

Last edited by nandans2005 : 30th December 2010 at 11:38.
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Old 30th December 2010, 11:40   #62
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Originally Posted by ramkya1 View Post
Hai friends,

I was on the Hubli Pune 4 track road, just crossed Umbreg and overtaking a lorry ..... must have been doing 100+on my fusion when I saw this bullock cart on the wrong side heading for me......... man than blew my top. I was lucky to have the time to overtake. My son had the camera fired and ready and shot this picture in time. The URL below will show the picture

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

Another picture of a KSRTC bus trying to overtake when there is absolutely no space...... amlosot rammed me

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

A herd of goats on the same highway near Pune, blocked traffic for 5-8 minutes.

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

so....... what say you ......... are our roads safe for 100+ KMPH?

-- Ramky.

Ranky, you have raised a very valid issue - it's not the highway, its the drivers on the highway who make it unsafe.
Just a few days ago, I was driving on one of the smoothest, fastest highways in the country, the Bombay Pune Expressway. The road consistently maintains atleast three lanes. I enjoyed driving in two extreme weather conditions, high fog early morning onward journey, and the middle of the night at the return. Cruising down the road in a car I love, the feeling of calm and appreciation towards the engineering of the road, the performance of the car and the landscape, was distastefully stomped upon by rash drivers honking their way through the highway at mind numbing speeds. I was surprised to see some drivers so desperately eager to over take a car already at about a 100kmph, that they sway from one lane to another, and some actually went off the highway on the mud paths to succeed on overtaking.
Its a faulty driving culture that has developed, the revolution led by Indica and Tavera cab drivers. Their city driving style has now moved to the highways too. Scary, yes!
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Old 30th December 2010, 12:16   #63
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To sum up, there are no rules that are followed by majority of Indian drivers. First of all, we are not even aware of what the rules are due to lack of communication between the rule makers and breakers. We see all kind of advertisements other than on road safety.
We still have unmanned and open railway crossings all over the country. Locals dry firm produce, cow dung and what not on highways. The only highway patrol we see are in Hollywood movies and forget cops with speed guns stopping anyone for fast driving.
The only safety in India is to stay as far away from trouble as possible as the constitutional safeguard only remains in papers.
The highway belongs to the truckkers, buses and other commercial vehicles, so our small civilian family vehicles should and must always be cautious, and if faced with unavoidable incident stay calm. Because no one will HELP!

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Old 30th December 2010, 14:04   #64
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Originally Posted by shishir_bn View Post
Whole of last week I was in Kerala and man the roads are so narrow and they call it National Highway, namely NH212,NH220,NH47 etc. No respect for any vehicles. Even if they see a bus coming in front these guys try to overtake and squeeze between the vehicles at the last minute. They drive so dangerously that it is very difficult to predict what their next move is and adding to this all the curves are blind curves and they attempt the overtaking stunt at these blind curves itself.

Every time a vehicle used to pass me, I used just check my OVRMS if they are on the vehicle itself or flown off.
Your finding is 100 percent right. They do this because there are no more open roads and people are driving around under rage. Most of the motorists are having a road rage issue, I myself find it very hard to keep cool at times, But somehow I manage and remain calm.
People dont want to give an inch of their land even for a reasonable price to build or develop a Highway and the government is going around the high court to get a right to hold public meetings on these busy roads.
And the crazy drivers you said about, Even if they hit your car while performing crazy stunts with their vehicles, They still will blame you and wont hesitate to get physical even.
Most of these idiots have some sort of influence somewhere, thanks to the thousands of politicians. I remember a High court justice get down from his car and slap a biker once in Cochin for fooling around in front of his car. Road rage has become a menace these days down here.
Its also better if you never make eye contact with other motorists at all while driving. And I always tell people to stay calm no matter what and call the cops if still things escalate out of control and things turn ugly.
The highways in Kerala are very menacing and a minimum of 12-13 people die in RTAs every single day in the state.

Last edited by jalex77 : 30th December 2010 at 14:07.
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Old 30th December 2010, 14:14   #65
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Well the fault is all over.
The roads are bad to start with.
Not many know about road sense or have any driving culture.
Just because of their sudden high paying job they buy a car out of peer pressure and start hitting the road ( mark rise in this kind of people )
There should be a proper system to check the motor ability of each and every individual before even they get the License.
The best way is precaution.

The whole system in India should be more strict when it comes to getting the license than trying to catch these crazy drivers after.

I truly agree accidents in 90% of the case is caused by some other morons mistake, but the price has to be paid by you.

The Best to do to be safe on the highway is to be watchful, follow all the rules, Keep the speed up to a reasonable number.
Being on the highway is a serious affair.

It can change your future for every.. MIND YOU.

So think before taking the risk of motoring on our highway without proper driving culture.
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Old 30th December 2010, 15:00   #66
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Default See and Go

As a habit, I always honk if I am passing a vehicle and get his attention.

At medians (especially) and in general too, I keep the white-line in the under-body so as to maneuver either right/left depending on the situation.

In a Motorcycle, I am 3-4 feet away from the center white-line. Always, and keep watching my RVM's in both cases.

Another rule which I learned the hard way.

See and Go. Don't see ahead (for what so ever reason) Don't. (be it because of bigger vehicle/fog/culvert or whatever)
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Old 30th December 2010, 17:27   #67
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I object to two things people normally blame accidents on:

1. Uneducated drivers.

What has education got to do with driving manners? Anyone spending enough time driving a vehicle gets to know his machine, its pros/cons/limitations, in short, all there is to know to drive safely. Moreover, some of the best drivers I've ever met in my life are illiterate folk (one such guy drove for my dad several years ago), and conversely, some of the worst are highly educated fellows (One of them is a colleague. I'd rather walk than hitch a ride in his car).

No amount of education can teach someone respect for the road and his machine. That has to come from within.

2. The Vehicle.

Last time I checked, vehicles were inanimate objects that are completely dependent on the guy behind the wheel. People get into nasty accidents and then say something like, "stupid thing handles like a boat, and can't handle any sharp curves. I just lost control". Eh Mate? You knew it handled like a boat before you crashed it, right? What try something without being sure whether your vehicle can handle it safely or not?

The only reason for accidents is the ignorance/over-zealousness/plain stupidity (take your pick) of the guy behind the wheel, and more often than not, the ones expected/assumed to behave the best turn out the worst.

There was a sign-board on a highway somewhere (someone posted a pic I think in another thread) that says: 'Safety equipment installed between your ears'. Couldn't have put it any better.
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Old 30th December 2010, 19:24   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
I object to two things people normally blame accidents on:

1. Uneducated drivers.

What has education got to do with driving manners? Anyone spending enough time driving a vehicle gets to know his machine, its pros/cons/limitations, in short, all there is to know to drive safely. Moreover, some of the best drivers I've ever met in my life are illiterate folk (one such guy drove for my dad several years ago), and conversely, some of the worst are highly educated fellows (One of them is a colleague. I'd rather walk than hitch a ride in his car).

No amount of education can teach someone respect for the road and his machine. That has to come from within.
Its not just education in the sense to read and write. Its the knowledge they have about driving etiquette, Rules, Basic common sense and so on. Most of them lack all these and like I said earlier they drive under the influence, might be half asleep after spending so many hours behind the wheel to make things even worse.
Some truckies I met on the highways at Dhabas and truck towns said they use Bhang while driving and said it enables them to stay awake and that they drive in excess of 24 hours.
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Old 30th December 2010, 19:41   #69
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Originally Posted by jalex77 View Post
Its not just education in the sense to read and write. Its the knowledge they have about driving etiquette, Rules, Basic common sense and so on. Most of them lack all these and like I said earlier they drive under the influence, might be half asleep after spending so many hours behind the wheel to make things even worse.
Some truckies I met on the highways at Dhabas and truck towns said they use Bhang while driving and said it enables them to stay awake and that they drive in excess of 24 hours.
I agree with you, and there are black sheep in every bunch, no doubt. Your own statement above (and the traits you mention) can be attributed to almost any category of drivers on the road, not just truckers.

What surprises me more is, irrespective of levels of formal education/awareness or whatever else we might want to call it, how can people be so careless about their own safety? Even an animal has survival instincts, and surely we humans (supposedly one of the most intelligent species on the planet, though I find it hard to believe sometimes on the road) don't need much sense to know whether we can take a corner/complete a maneuver safely at the speed we're doing?

Education/awareness/common sense might vary, but nobody has a death-wish while they step out to drive, surely? Or am I attaching too much importance to human life?

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 30th December 2010 at 19:43.
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Old 30th December 2010, 20:14   #70
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Lots of divided roads have posted speed limit of 90kmph and not 80kmph.
In TN it is only 80 KPH. And lorries / buses just can't take a U turn from the rightmost lane like a car, especially on a two lane road. They can't complete the turn if they attempt it, so they will always do it from the left side of the road. I always expect the worst when I am behind a heavy vehicle, irrespective of the lane it occupies. One can't be too careful on our roads. And it is unfortunate the way people / authorities side with the locals, irrespective of who was wrong. I have seen it happen in all states.
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Old 30th December 2010, 20:33   #71
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
In TN it is only 80 KPH. And lorries / buses just can't take a U turn from the rightmost lane like a car, especially on a two lane road. They can't complete the turn if they attempt it, so they will always do it from the left side of the road. I always expect the worst when I am behind a heavy vehicle, irrespective of the lane it occupies. One can't be too careful on our roads. And it is unfortunate the way people / authorities side with the locals, irrespective of who was wrong. I have seen it happen in all states.
If one is unfortunate enough to get tangled in an incident outside their state of registration, a bashing is imminent. Most people would like to believe that outstation guys are the root of all their woes, traffic and otherwise.
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Old 30th December 2010, 20:40   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azeemhafiz View Post
Hello Vishwas,

First of all, glad that no one was hurt seriously and glad that you are all OK to report this incident here at Team BHP.

Although brawl is best avoided, I think you have handled yourself pretty well. Please dont think that I'm justifying you landing punches on the Lorry drivers face, But I'm glad maturity stepped in and you stopped. You were scared that something worse could have happened and you wanted to teach him a lesson. But as suggested by everyone else, you should've avoided it.

It is easy for most of us to sit behind the comforts of a laptop / desktop and recommend 'what you should have done' but facing it first hand with your loved one's (your car included) is totally different. Its hard to say how one reacts to such a situation but I must admit that you have done pretty well.
Thanks a lot azeemhafiz. I just thought of sharing this unfortunate incident on TeamBHP because I had been very inactive.

This is a first for me. I have never been involved in an accident. And neither have I beaten someone up. I had my reasons to raise my hand but even then I cannot justify my actions.

Thanks a ton for your support. Really means a lot to me.

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Originally Posted by prince_pervez View Post
Baap re! Thank God you and your Family members are safe Vishwas. Its easy for me to say from here that a brawl can be avoided, although, sometimes even a rash overtaking manuver gets to me. Whether India or abroad, truckers do have a bigger and bader blind spot than anyone else. Overtaking these rigs should be done carefully let alone being close to them. Time is the best healer. Go on a vacation, seriously.
Thanks Prince_Pervez.

I think tomorrow's party should erase a very bad ending!

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Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
You are supposed to stick to the left lane. Right lane is strictly for overtaking, and one is supposed to switch back to the left lane once done with overtaking. This is irrespective of your speed - and remember the Maximum permissible speed on Indian Highways is only 80 kmph.

The sign boards are to remind slower vehicles that they are required to compulsorily stick to the left lane - but that does not mean the faster vehicles are free to drive on the overtaking lane.



He did the right thing here. Your duty does not stop at honking - you are supposed to reduce your speed as well. Having been involved in a similar incident myself, I emphasise on this point - the driver's duty does not end at just honking, but also be prepared to stop. I know that one does not get so many reflexes in such situations, but one should be prepared for this. This is why one should be always doubly cautious while trying to overtake a huge vehicle - they have huge blind spots.
Lol so you think I didn't slam my brakes at all? Did you see the skid marks in the photo I uploaded?

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Originally Posted by nandans2005 View Post
Vishwas,

I presume that the picture posted is the accident spot.

I also presume the braking marks on the road is of your car.

If yes, then i see that you have braked quite a distance. At the end , i see that you have turned to the right? why right? Turning right would have been more towards the truck which was turning right.

I think the car should have been turned to the left to avoid colliding with the truck.

Seeing the distance you have braked seems that speed could have been a bit more. I mean that you could have seen the speed on the meter, when the speed was reducing during braking.

I am just trying to analyse the accident. However, i feel all these analysis can be done after the accident so that we use our presence of mind during such crisis. I know how difficult it is to react properly in a situation to avert an accident.

Just see the picture and analyse for yourself. Let me know if what i have thought is right or wrong.
Yes they are all mine. I took them minutes after I sent my mum, aunt and my cousin to the hospital.

I took my hands off the steering wheel a fraction of a second before the impact. Had I tried to hold the steering wheel and swerve to the left, I would have probably broken both my arms and shoulders due to the impact. Always take your hands off the wheel if you want to save your hands. I remember watching this crash test documentary on Discovery Channel long ago. Of course, I did it out of sheer instinct. Not that I had the time to recall the documentary and then react! Lol Plus if there was enough time/distance to steer the car to the left, I would have easily managed to avoid a scratch let alone a collision. And also not that I intentionally steered to the right. The truck swerved from the left to the right. The truck is nearly twice as wide as the car.

I can't say if you are right or wrong. I can only say it is incorrect to say I should have steered to the left. There is no chance I would have avoided a collision. For all you know, the car may have spun out of control and rammed into the truck sideways.

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Originally Posted by jalex77 View Post
First of all I apologize for being harsh with you which I know I've been. I should have been a little less 'by the book' when you were feeling down with your car damaged like that. Its my line of work that makes me to react like that. Sorry again. And I was really disturbed by the fact that you went ahead and assaulted the Truckie, compromising on your own and your family's safety. From your post I made out that you never took that risk factor into account ever.
I've seen a lot of incidents of road rage going around over the years and things are escalating alarmingly.Years back I've been on the receiving end as well when the driver of an interstate KSRTC bus got pissed with the traffic jam on the Bangalore Mysore highway and decided to move ahead by bumping my puny old 800 onto the foot path. He broke my rear bumper along with the tail lights and there was some damage to the front bumper as well. I chased and caught up with him when the traffic opened and once I was level with him on his right, my friend in the passenger seat shouted at him to stop else we are going to call the police. You know what he did?, He gave him a smile and shoved us off the road on to the right denting our car on the left side as well. That was my lesson and I've never ever confronted any guy on the road again, Its way too dangerous is what I've learnt. Even the cops at the next junction did not bother to help us back then since we were not locals or from that state.
And I have read your post clearly, I once again went through it to make sure I did not miss something.
And Vishwas, I appreciate the fact that you are a responsible person and really have more respect for you after learning that you are someone who actually does something for the society at large.
But still you should know that you do have a contributory factor in your incident with the speed you were clocking and not taking into account that its a median and that the truckie might turn without indication. Haven't you noticed before that truckies and other commercial drivers behave like that without any warning?
Another thing is you might not have overtaken the truck at the time of the impact but if he did not make that turn, You would have overtook him in like 3 seconds at that speed and proximity as he was on the left and you were on the right. So you must have known that you were about to overtake him. And he might have not seen you at all and you had said the highway was deserted for 100 metres on either side. The truckie might have been reluctant to admit his fault as otherwise he would be held accountable for the incident and God knows if he has any insurance at all. If he has no insurance then the damages you had incurred will come out of his or the lorry owner's pocket if you go for a claim petition at court. So anyone in his situation will point the finger at you. And these kind of people know very well on how to fend for themselves when involved in such a situation.
One more thing, when the book says that the maximum speed is 80 Kmph-110 Kmph is 100 percent illegal. Just see what your counsel is going to say in court if at all you go for your claim petition. He will delete the 110Kmph speed in the story else you might be going home empty handed at verdict. Try to see where you erred, even if it is small. You might not get a second chance or next time to correct things.
"It seems like I have to give up being honest and probably have to blatantly lie and blame someone else completely." On that statement, I have nothing to say, Its your decision to make.
Once again sorry for making you miserable, Wont bother you ever again.
That’s alright. I have faced harsher situations and words in the past and frankly, you haven’t managed to even increase my blood pressure. So I am fine with your opinion. Like I mentioned before, this is a first for me. Both the accident and raising my hand at someone. At that point in time, I lost it.
I’d like to share this link I found on the internet the other day about road rage.
Road rage in India growing along with economy
I am sorry that happened to your car.
Maybe I should not have crossed the speed limits. I admit to it.
Like I’ve said before, maybe my speed should have been lower. But my point was, even if I was at 80kmph, I had very little time to react. Maybe I would have only ended up with a small or minor dent to my vehicle, assuming the truck driver slammed his brakes like he did. Maybe the impact would have been lesser.
You haven’t bothered me at all. I handled the criticism because I admitted to my mistake and I was honest about it.

Last edited by Jaggu : 31st December 2010 at 00:07. Reason: Back to back posts.
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Old 30th December 2010, 21:15   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
If one is unfortunate enough to get tangled in an incident outside their state of registration, a bashing is imminent. Most people would like to believe that outstation guys are the root of all their woes, traffic and otherwise.
+1 to that, Its a nightmare to be involved in a fender bender in an alien place. As soon as the locals find out you are from somewhere else, they start to treat you like an enemy.

And about the things I said about truckies, I forgot to mention that a whole lot of them have poor vision and are literally blind. And yes all that I said about them applies to other motorists as well, But not on such a large scale.
And then there are some truck drivers like for instance the ones driving Tipper trucks in Kerala. They are mostly teenaged goondas with fake licences. They operate for various mafias and its better to get out of the way when you come across them or see them in the RVMs. They never think twice before ramming into you if they feel you are obstructing them. An RDO's car was dashed into when he was on the road hoping to get hold of the sand mafia gangs near a river side in my hometown. The RDO escaped because he ran off the road, The driver of the truck drove straight towards him and would have killed him. The cops haven't arrested anyone after a year of this happening. They very well know who did it, but still no charges against anyone even.

Last edited by jalex77 : 30th December 2010 at 21:33.
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Old 31st December 2010, 09:58   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
If one is unfortunate enough to get tangled in an incident outside their state of registration, a bashing is imminent. Most people would like to believe that outstation guys are the root of all their woes, traffic and otherwise.
BTW I see that the truck is also Bangalore registered. A local crew & owner for a B'lore truck, or did they just have the advantage of fluency in Tamil and pretended to be locals? Viswa's post mentions this happened 250 KM after leaving Bangalore, so was it somewhere between Salem and Madurai?

I have a feeling if he had played the victim rather than showing aggression, the same crowd would have bashed up the truck driver.
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Old 31st December 2010, 10:29   #75
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Quote:
BTW I see that the truck is also Bangalore registered
.
Gansan,
I know of a well known transport originating in Salem, but the company fleet is registered in Bangalore.i am also surprised that this company has many buses registered in Coorg.

None of this company vehicles are registered in Tamilnadu, though the owners are from salem.I think there is some advantage in doing this, though i havent gone into details of it.

So i would suggest that the commercial vehicle registration hardly mattered in this case too.

Quote:
Viswa's post mentions this happened 250 KM after leaving Bangalore, so was it somewhere between Salem and Madurai?
He hasn't mentioned the exact location of the accident though. If its 250kms & he was travelling to Kumbakonam ( as mentioned by Vishwa), it should be on NH68. To reach Madurai, one needs to travel on NH7 itself.

NH7 takes you all the way to Kanyakumari from Bangalore.
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