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Old 11th September 2010, 13:31   #46
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In my view the major reasons why BEAT is not doing the way it should is as below:

1) Terrible Boot Space: With only three lap top bags filling up the boot, the puny space is a major deterrent.

2) The non-availability of the diesel option. A lot of customers would look forward to the frugal option.

3) The looks. You like it or hate it I guess has more people on the latter.

4) Figo launch. One of the major reasons for lowered sales. The FIGO is a better package in terms of space and options(Diesel is available).
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Old 11th September 2010, 14:17   #47
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Originally Posted by arnabchak View Post
In my view the major reasons why BEAT is not doing the way it should is as below:

1) Terrible Boot Space: With only three lap top bags filling up the boot, the puny space is a major deterrent.

2) The non-availability of the diesel option. A lot of customers would look forward to the frugal option.

3) The looks. You like it or hate it I guess has more people on the latter.

4) Figo launch. One of the major reasons for lowered sales. The FIGO is a better package in terms of space and options(Diesel is available).
Arnab, I think we can leave the looks part and diesel part out. Not ever car is a diesel in this range. And moreover, we can't draw a conclusion here that most people hate the looks. What is the basis of saying that?

Yes, boot space in Beat is not that great but then no car is perfect. What Beat offers is features that are not present in this price segment otherwise. Like Automatic Climate Control etc. Looks are quite futuristic.

I believe that Ford has come up with a very smart product in the form of Figo.
They kept features list to the minumum. No rear power windows etc. But, instead brought a diesel mill under 4.5lacs. Space wise it is comparable to cars in higher price segment(Punto etc). For this reason, it finds comparison with i20, Punto, Micra and is sharing up sales with cars from all price segments.
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Old 11th September 2010, 15:19   #48
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Originally Posted by thumpmeister View Post
Hey Ambi,

I second your opinion on that last statement about mentality mate. Im just sick about people criticisng this amazing car which I own .

Please do not take comments on this thread personally.

I agree to the fact that Beat is a VFM and may be an amazing product in isolation but when compared in Relativity it is not such a good product with respect to the main competitor in 3.5L - 4L price bracket i.e. Wagon R and to a lesser extent the Figo (w.r.t sales as this thread is all about nos.)

I think every segment has its own requirements, and the basic requirement of this segment is VERSATILITY because people who own cars from this segment usually own just one car and want it to be an all-rounder and the Wagon R does just that.

On the other hand, Selling a car in good nos. does require an all-rounded approach from Design to level of kit, to a non-Claustrophobic interior to good efficiency,
from the marketing team to the sales team, from sales network to brand perception.

Just my views.
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Old 11th September 2010, 15:32   #49
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This is the kind of customer preference in India.
Older, bland and conservative looks sells rather than contemporary radical looks. See Qualis still has great resale value, Alto slls in lots, 'ugly' santro sold well, tempo travellor shrunk version Wagon R's were much desired ones, old looking Figos are in great demand but not the Beat.
Beat on its part, though good and muscular looking from the front the rear perhaps from the rear three quarters is not enthusing and is a let down. The same reasons applies to A star too.
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Old 11th September 2010, 15:50   #50
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Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
This is the kind of customer preference in India.
Older, bland and conservative looks sells rather than contemporary radical looks. See Qualis still has great resale value, Alto slls in lots, 'ugly' santro sold well, tempo travellor shrunk version Wagon R's were much desired ones, old looking Figos are in great demand but not the Beat.
Beat on its part, though good and muscular looking from the front the rear perhaps from the rear three quarters is not enthusing and is a let down. The same reasons applies to A star too.
I do not agree with you.

Indians do like aggressive looks when compared to bland styling but Older, bland and conservative looks sells rather than contemporary radical looks because looks are way down on the priority list.
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Old 11th September 2010, 16:55   #51
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Originally Posted by nasa_hubble View Post
....
but when compared in Relativity it is not such a good product with respect to the main competitor in 3.5L - 4L price bracket i.e. Wagon R and to a lesser extent the Figo (w.r.t sales as this thread is all about nos.)
....
Could you please elaborate, why Beat is not such a good product?
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Old 11th September 2010, 22:17   #52
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Originally Posted by nasa_hubble View Post

Indians do like aggressive looks when compared to bland styling but Older, bland and conservative looks sells rather than contemporary radical looks because looks are way down on the priority list.
Could you please key in the higher end of the Indian priority list
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Old 11th September 2010, 23:15   #53
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Originally Posted by arnabchak View Post
In my view the major reasons why BEAT is not doing the way it should is as below:

1) Terrible Boot Space: With only three lap top bags filling up the boot, the puny space is a major deterrent.

2) The non-availability of the diesel option. A lot of customers would look forward to the frugal option.

3) The looks. You like it or hate it I guess has more people on the latter.

4) Figo launch. One of the major reasons for lowered sales. The FIGO is a better package in terms of space and options(Diesel is available).
1. Just have a look at the boot space in below link.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/2036215-post1355.html
Do you still tell that only 3 laptop bags filling the boot? AFAIK, Wagon R has similar kind of boot.

2. Absolutely True.

3. You mean to say that Wagon R is more palatable looks? I totally disagree. In fact, in my opinion, Wagon R was never a looker but practical (previous gen but can't comment about new gen).

4. What about Figo petrol? Look around Figo forum, you will find plenty of owners complaining about FE. Even some diesel owners are also complaining about FE getting around 12-14 kmpl in city. Even Indica Vista is giving better than that (source: TBHP ownership thread). Cost of ownership and A.S.S. is still a huge problem for ford.
Another issue: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...th-issues.html (Figo Bluetooth Issues)

In my view, it is totally a psychological point of view by the average Indians.

Last edited by Joy : 11th September 2010 at 23:32. Reason: adding some links.
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Old 11th September 2010, 23:41   #54
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NOT A DRIVER'S CAR
The sporty styling of beat does not gel with its mediocre performance. This is not a car with which can give you immense driving pleasure. As the acceleration is not impressive (Compared to K series or Kappa even after ECU remap). The main reason is taller Gearing. Gearing is very important in India. Choose improper ratios and you will go Fiat's way. Handling is not at all a strength. Suspensions are too soft and tyres are miserable.

NOT A FAMILY CAR
This is not a car where you can sit back and enjoy. As the Rear is claustrophobic. Under thigh support is minimal. Although legspace is okay but no practically usable boot.

NOT AN EASY CAR TO DRIVE

I dont believe women or new drivers they will end up buying this car. As the view of road is severely hampered due to high dashboard placement and low seating. Lack of driver seat height adjustments make matters worse. Not an easy car to drive.

SERVICE

Over and above its not a Maruti/Hyundai where you get away with Estillo.

In contrary to what others say I believe the Diesel is not going to make much of an impact. Heard the diesel will be a 3 pot. As bad as the POLO diesel. Only time will tell.

Beat is not a bad product. In fact it is a wonderful product. Fact is it is not meant for Indian customers. Just like Astar.

Its got excellent fit and finish both in and out.
Styling is revolutionary. Feels like concept.
ACC, airbags, alloys, ABS what not??
Excellent refinement at low RPMs.
Wonderful Ride Quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
I guess GM is still not a favorite brand in India.
Then How is CRUZE selling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by unni_s View Post
The ideal buyer would be people looking for a second car in the garage for the wife or for those small runabouts in the city.
Thats why I bought It. You are absolutely spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fz_rider View Post
I don't think Beat is underpowered as many of them are saying. It's got decent power and is at par competition in terms of power. The problem is , it isn't as refined and smooth as a K-series or a Kappa and the gearing is a bit tall.
It seems like the have added EGR and Port deactivation which have resulted in the LAG as experienced by people. So people will perceive it to be underpowered when compared to Swift or I10. Yes Gearing is the main cause.. But come on it is more refined than i10. I10 is very throaty at higher RPMs. At lower RPMs beat is the king of Refinement. Reason- Cast iron engine instead of aluminum. And 4 mounting points instead of 3.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AvonA7 View Post
I am sure if this car was launched by Maruti Suzuki or Hyundai the sales nos. would have been at least twice of what it is now.
That is without a doubt. I wonder what would be Cruze's no. if it was Maruti Cruze or Honda cruze!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Lack of diesel is not an issue IMO. Hyundai i-10 is topping the sales charts without a diesel.

As far as 'too flashy' styling and 'tight rear space'.....thats exactly what people said when the Swift came out. Anyone remember?
For your 1st point I agree.
About your second part, any young individual would pick Swift as the flashy styling was backed by scintillating performance and handling. Not so in Beat.
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Old 12th September 2010, 00:00   #55
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy View Post
Could you please elaborate, why Beat is not such a good product?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy View Post
In fact, in my opinion, Wagon R was never a looker but practical
You asked me to elaborate and you've answered it yourself. This is what I am trying to highlight that the beat may be VFM but not as Versatile as Wagon R.
A customer will always compare cars while buying hence wagon r will fulfill most of the options.
Also, IMHO a good product is that which is a overall good package including service network, space, Fuel efficient , good resale, brand perception etc.

and its selling in decent nos. if you look at the size of the targeted market.


please do not write in bold when asking a question. Seems like you are shouting. May offend some people.


Quote:

rajeev k
Could you please key in the higher end of the Indian priority list
If you don't already know then allow me.

fuel efficiency
low maintenance
good after sales
space
comfort
level of kit
Resale.

These are not in order of priority but am pretty sure come above looks for most Indian buyers.
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Old 12th September 2010, 00:07   #56
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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post

....
NOT AN EASY CAR TO DRIVE

I dont believe women or new drivers they will end up buying this car. As the view of road is severely hampered due to high dashboard placement and low seating. Lack of driver seat height adjustments make matters worse. Not an easy car to drive.
[u][b]
....
to what you said. But I want to just explain that I learnt my driving in Premier Padmini and matured my driving in Ambassador, I think Amby does not provide a great view in the front. In fact, while learning, I learnt that you got have some idea (about your car dimensions) whether it can squeeze or not, etc. If every driver wants to see the edge of the car as well as wants his/her car to perform like a supercar, it will very difficult for the manufacturers.

IMHO, this makes so much difference. You have to know the cars dimensions, its weakness, its strengths. When, all this is lacking, it is no doubt why our roads has becoming more hazardous.

Last edited by Joy : 12th September 2010 at 00:11.
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Old 12th September 2010, 22:45   #57
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Originally Posted by nasa_hubble View Post
...
please do not write in bold when asking a question. Seems like you are shouting. May offend some people.
...
Sorry, if I have hurt you. My intention is just to highlight the matter and nothing like as you are thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasa_hubble View Post
In fact, in my opinion, Wagon R was never a looker but practical
I would like mention here, please don't quote partially to suit your arguments as it does changes the meaning of the post (TBHP has specific rules pointed out what to do in case of partial quote). Request you once again to through my earlier post as it is mentioned clearly as last gen Wagon R. New Wagon R with a 3 pot engine and a boot space of around 180L (Beat-170L), NVH level is higher than Santro, i10, Beat (source; TBHP) and many other features, is no where IMHO practical. Just because it has a Maruti badge it is selling. There are far better products in markets at that price range.

I can guarantee you one thing that had it been Maruti Beat or Hyundai Beat, it's sales figure would have been different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasa_hubble View Post
Priority list (according to you)

fuel efficiency
low maintenance
good after sales
space
comfort
level of kit
Resale.
If fuel efficiency, low maintenance, good after sales, are criteria, then I don't think Figo would have succeeded.

Again considering space, comfort, level of kit, are criteria, then I don't think Swift would have made to the best selling chart.

For your kind information, even GTO ( in August 2010 analysis was wondering why Beat is selling so less? Just quoting the portion,

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
....
- The Chevrolet siblings, Spark (2,462) and Beat (2,461), bring the General a respectable (total) volume. However, I'm surprised by the Beats mere 2.5K level. The car is VFM priced, has excellent ride quality, good build and some stand-out features. Obviously, there is some overlap between the closely priced Spark & Beat. Probably the market hasn't taken too kindly to its futuristic love-me-or-hate-me styling either. The Beat should double its volumes when the diesel engine arrives shortly.
...
For full report go to: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2063146 (August 2010 - Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis)

IMHO, just because it is from GM stable, it is suffering from the heat. AFAIK, Indian are basically brand conscious.

don't take it personally. I am just making my points.

Last edited by Joy : 12th September 2010 at 22:56. Reason: typos
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Old 12th September 2010, 23:54   #58
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What Beat needs to sell more
1) A more powerful engine 1.2 Turbo.
2) Wider Tyres.
3) Increased car width
4) A stiffer suspension.

You cant make it a family car. So atleast turn it into a decent driver's car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy View Post
to what you said. But I want to just explain that I learnt my driving in Premier Padmini and matured my driving in Ambassador, I think Amby does not provide a great view in the front. In fact, while learning, I learnt that you got have some idea (about your car dimensions) whether it can squeeze or not, etc. If every driver wants to see the edge of the car as well as wants his/her car to perform like a supercar, it will very difficult for the manufacturers.

IMHO, this makes so much difference. You have to know the cars dimensions, its weakness, its strengths. When, all this is lacking, it is no doubt why our roads has becoming more hazardous.
Once you keep driving any car for a long time you can have total clarity regarding whether it can squeeze or not or keep 2" space from the car in front.
But what ever you do and however skilled you are a car offering a better view will be much more comfortable to drive IMHO. Like when I am following a car bumper to bumper I have no Idea about the potholes in the road if the dash is placed high. Not much you can do even you you know the exact dimensions of the car in such cases. My point is lesser the blind spots better it is.
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Old 13th September 2010, 00:48   #59
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[quote=nasa_hubble;2065950]
Quote:

fuel efficiency
low maintenance
good after sales
space
comfort
level of kit
Resale.

These are not in order of priority but am pretty sure come above looks for most Indian buyers.
Add to it another important one Price & VFM
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Old 13th September 2010, 20:09   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasa_hubble View Post
Please do not take comments on this thread personally.

I agree to the fact that Beat is a VFM and may be an amazing product in isolation but when compared in Relativity it is not such a good product with respect to the main competitor in 3.5L - 4L price bracket i.e. Wagon R and to a lesser extent the Figo (w.r.t sales as this thread is all about nos.)

I think every segment has its own requirements, and the basic requirement of this segment is VERSATILITY because people who own cars from this segment usually own just one car and want it to be an all-rounder and the Wagon R does just that.

On the other hand, Selling a car in good nos. does require an all-rounded approach from Design to level of kit, to a non-Claustrophobic interior to good efficiency,
from the marketing team to the sales team, from sales network to brand perception.

Just my views.
Hey Nasa,

I understand was probably going over the top but I still believe the Beat is a Great car, just wait till the sales figures pick up in some time when GM pulls up its socks.

You really need to check why you claim the wagon R to be a good product when compared to the Beat! In fact every Automobile magazine & Auto show on TV have picked the Beat ahead of the Wagon R!!
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