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Old 23rd April 2010, 18:48   #211
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Changing the brand name would be a bad idea. Despite its initial niggles the Safari has strong following, owners and otherwise. Considering that it sells in the range of 10 lacs despite being branded Tata goes to show how much oull the brand 'Safari' has.
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I would be disastrous I feel. The emotions running on my mind when I read this line was as if someone wants to KILL it. Tatas please don't. We all love it very much.

I too have good emotions for TATA & Safari. But, it's just that I didnot want to see a repeat telecast of what has happened to SUMO GRANDE due to SUMO name and also Indica Vista, due to it's younger V2 version.

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Old 23rd April 2010, 23:19   #212
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Although nowhere near the success of their predecessors the Grande and Vista are beginning to hold their own. The Sumo especilly after its disastorous start (I thought it would be pulled out) has really come back in March. Long term Tata has to build these brands, historically all car makers have their strong models, Corolla, Golf, Civic, 3, E the list is endless. Not all of them were instant success but built over time. This will pay off into the future rather than keep jumping names like GM. Ok I've gone totally off topic, but I think Tata should keep the names and rather focus on getting the models right from day one.
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Old 23rd April 2010, 23:58   #213
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Although nowhere near the success of their predecessors the Grande and Vista are beginning to hold their own. The Sumo especilly after its disastorous start (I thought it would be pulled out) has really come back in March. Long term Tata has to build these brands, historically all car makers have their strong models, Corolla, Golf, Civic, 3, E the list is endless. Not all of them were instant success but built over time. This will pay off into the future rather than keep jumping names like GM. Ok I've gone totally off topic, but I think Tata should keep the names and rather focus on getting the models right from day one.
Yes, and even if one such brand sticks with the customer, you can have a very loyal base to always look forward to. There are tons of customers in US who buy beetle after beetle. No matter of cajoling them for some other car helps. With the Grande MK2, the Sumo is picking up, but its yet to see any substantial numbers. One area that Tatas are poor in is Marketing and PR. They can do well with some more of it. Why not rope in the same team that made the lively and splendid Safari Ads.
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Old 5th May 2010, 13:08   #214
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Hello guys,
Any information about the engine by which this SUV will be powered. Is it Fiat or Tata??, I would be really Happy! to see a FIAT plonked into this SUV to beat MAHINDRA's and TOYOTA's.
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Old 5th May 2010, 18:50   #215
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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
Hello guys,
Any information about the engine by which this SUV will be powered. Is it Fiat or Tata??, I would be really Happy! to see a FIAT plonked into this SUV to beat MAHINDRA's and TOYOTA's.
Nice question and while I was taking my Safari delivery back in Feb 2010, I heard one of the sales folk mentioning a new Safari might come up with Fiet's MJ Diesel instead of DICOR. At the same time, there has been a lot of speculation and TML internal news that the new Safari might be burning 3.0L DICOR with 170 bhp !!!

One way, I would like to see 3.0 L Dicor competing with Fortuner with the similar power band, but sometimes, I get dragged a bit towards MJD

Prem.
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Old 5th May 2010, 19:45   #216
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Originally Posted by kaviprem View Post
Nice question and while I was taking my Safari delivery back in Feb 2010, I heard one of the sales folk mentioning a new Safari might come up with Fiet's MJ Diesel instead of DICOR. At the same time, there has been a lot of speculation and TML internal news that the new Safari might be burning 3.0L DICOR with 170 bhp !!!

One way, I would like to see 3.0 L Dicor competing with Fortuner with the similar power band, but sometimes, I get dragged a bit towards MJD

Prem.
Again, If a TATA engine is used, it will take ages for TATA to ensure that it is fully problem free, as the issue is with current 2.2 DICOR. So, a FIAT motor having 100+BHP would do just fine bit of job.
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Old 5th May 2010, 23:09   #217
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Well, teambhp rules prohibit me from saying it the way I would like to, so I just have to say that this statement is absolutely false.

The A-pillar and the windscreen just CANNOT show design characteristic. All it can do, is be at an angle, so for a sports car a lower angle, an SUV ahigher angle; that's just about it.

Just go back and check how the windscreens shape on the other SUVs in India and abroad.
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Old 6th May 2010, 10:22   #218
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Originally Posted by kaviprem View Post
Nice question and while I was taking my Safari delivery back in Feb 2010, I heard one of the sales folk mentioning a new Safari might come up with Fiet's MJ Diesel instead of DICOR. At the same time, there has been a lot of speculation and TML internal news that the new Safari might be burning 3.0L DICOR with 170 bhp !!!

One way, I would like to see 3.0 L Dicor competing with Fortuner with the similar power band, but sometimes, I get dragged a bit towards MJD

Prem.
Most of the sales and service guys ( atleast in Tata Showrooms) don't have iota of information and they just speculate :-) and often repeat what knowledgeable customers say after reading on sites like Team-BHP

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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
Again, If a TATA engine is used, it will take ages for TATA to ensure that it is fully problem free, as the issue is with current 2.2 DICOR. So, a FIAT motor having 100+BHP would do just fine bit of job.
well IMHO most issues of dicor 2.2 are solved after update. Some of the problems will continue to occur and if you believe that MJD does not have them you may be mistaken , Just read the reports of various Swift threads for example.

Now a days problems being reported are more related to QA both on part of TML and it's suppliers like Delphi and they are unlikely to go away just by taking another engine .

BTW I like Dicor 2.2 for the electric train like linear pull in Words of Rahul
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Old 6th May 2010, 10:57   #219
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Most of the sales and service guys ( atleast in Tata Showrooms) don't have iota of information and they just speculate :-) and often repeat what knowledgeable customers say after reading on sites like Team-BHP



well IMHO most issues of dicor 2.2 are solved after update. Some of the problems will continue to occur and if you believe that MJD does not have them you may be mistaken , Just read the reports of various Swift threads for example.

Now a days problems being reported are more related to QA both on part of TML and it's suppliers like Delphi and they are unlikely to go away just by taking another engine .

BTW I like Dicor 2.2 for the electric train like linear pull in Words of Rahul
You are right that any new engine will face issues when launched in the market. But, there is a significant difference in a 140BHP motor produced by TATA and a 140BHP motor produced by FIAT! Is'nt it!.
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Old 6th May 2010, 11:22   #220
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You are right that any new engine will face issues when launched in the market. But, there is a significant difference in a 140BHP motor produced by TATA and a 140BHP motor produced by FIAT! Is'nt it!.
Yes as of today 140 BHP Motor by Tata is producing huge torque and linear output so it is better where as 90 BHP motor on lighter 3 box car from FIAT feel anemic in that 3 box car itself so I will definitely not want that in 2 ton iron block. 140 BHP from FIAT is not seen here so can't comment on that.
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Old 6th May 2010, 14:10   #221
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Yes as of today 140 BHP Motor by Tata is producing huge torque and linear output so it is better where as 90 BHP motor on lighter 3 box car from FIAT feel anemic in that 3 box car itself so I will definitely not want that in 2 ton iron block. 140 BHP from FIAT is not seen here so can't comment on that.
Not 140BHP, just 100BHP is enough for SAFARI to pull and cruise effectively only and only if it is a FIAT developed engine.

What i typed above, does it comes in OT??
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Old 6th May 2010, 14:23   #222
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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
Not 140BHP, just 100BHP is enough for SAFARI to pull and cruise effectively only and only if it is a FIAT developed engine.

What i typed above, does it comes in OT??
I respect your opinion, but, feel that in order to match up on paper with the rivals that offer 120-170 BHP, it needs those numbers... at least on papers. All know that Tata is no Honda, (who can extract maximum output from small BHP figures).

Further, if one can get a Scorpio rated 120 BHP at lower price than a Safari rated 100 BHP, why would one like to go for it.

I have also heard lot of people cribbing about the 90 BHP Safari TCIC as being weak & inadequate for the heavy Safari.
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Old 6th May 2010, 14:41   #223
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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
Not 140BHP, just 100BHP is enough for SAFARI to pull and cruise effectively only and only if it is a FIAT developed engine.

What i typed above, does it comes in OT??
Ha Ha , Buddy then the pulling power of electric train will go away the good thing is that this 140 BHP is in usable power band so not just a number on paper. In fact the engine is biggest reason to buy Safari and you want to take it away :-)

In Waynad I drove out of mud where Classic 500 were not daring on 2 wheels just due to power and torque, but I am nobody to see more why 140 BHP is needed check threads of adc , Also trust me power curve of 2.2 Dicor is more usable then what MJD 1.3 is offering in 3 box cars do a back to back test drive ,you don't need to rev hard to get that power
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Old 6th May 2010, 14:43   #224
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BHP for Safari - Appropriate for TBHP

Have a 90 BHP TCIC since the last 10 years and in city conditions it does manage to stick with the 2.2 dicor 140 BHP Safari and the Fortuner as well, but on the Highway, the 2.2 Dicor and Fortuner both pull away quite easily. Yep toll posts and traffic get us all back together but 140 bhps is the min one needs on a vehicle of this size. Makes if nothing else overtaking easy. Plus climbing on hill roads is much easier with 140 bhp than with 90 bhp.

Have driven the Fortuner, 2.2 Dicor and the 90 bhp Linea and am sure nothing less than 140 bhp from Fiat or Tata would do for the Safari.

Yep it would be always good to get a future 170 bhp 3 ltr safari but if one goes by size to ltr capacity of the engine if 2.2 gets 140 bhp then 3 should get close to 190 bhp. But frankly the current power is adequate, the Safari needs to actually get on a diet and loose some wt for better wt to torque & power ratios.
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Old 6th May 2010, 14:48   #225
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2 ton+ and 100BHP? Simply no go. With correct torque curve and gearing even 90BHP for such a vehicle will do in city, but the moment you come on the highway, or take a ghat section full on, you will find it wanting.
Heck, I wish I had more low end torque and 20 more horse when climbing high mountain passes. Even 140bhp feels less, esp since the weight is tipping 2.5 tonnes!
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