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Old 6th May 2010, 15:27   #226
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@cardeep, amitk26, ACM, tsk1979
I was just trying to explain that a 140BHp TATA DICOR 2.2 still does not has capability to match a SCORPIO in pick-up and even torque figures are not that much amazing. So, if a par experienced company than TATA like, FIAT, build a engine for their motor in range of 100-140 or more BHp's. Then, too it will be the engine which will utilise each and every bit of its power throughout the range of RPM. Which is not the case with 2.2vtt and even 3.0Ltr both of them seems best on the papers above Mahindra's, Toyota,... but when it comes to reality one can easily figure out the difference between a mhawk and DicoR. Both of them are good powertrains, but mhawk utilises every-bit of its essence it has got.
I am not offending TATA creation becuz myself own a TCIC. but, want a car from them which is worth for money that they are offering atleast in engine departement.

Last edited by mercedised : 6th May 2010 at 15:31.
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Old 6th May 2010, 15:31   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
@cardeep, amitk26, ACM, tsk1979
I was just trying to explain that a 140BHp TATA DICOR 2.2 still does not has capability to match a SCORPIO in pick-up and even torque figures are not that much amazing. So, if a par experienced company than TATA like, FIAT, build a engine for their motor in range of 100-140 or more BHp's. Then, too it will be the engine which will utilise each and every bit of its power throughout the range of RPM. Which is not the case with 2.2vtt and even 3.0Ltr both of them seems best on the papers above Mahindra's, Toyota,... but when it comes to reality one can easily figure out the difference between a Mhawk and DICOR. Bpth of them are good powertrains but Mhawk utilises everybit of its essence it has got.
Guess what... it makes the Scorpio more loved than the Safari (hope my brother doesn't reads this post... Safari lover). Though Safari is no laggard & has its own strengths where it outshines Scorpio.
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Old 6th May 2010, 15:34   #228
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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
@cardeep, amitk26, ACM, tsk1979
I was just trying to explain that a 140BHp TATA DICOR 2.2 still does not has capability to match a SCORPIO in pick-up and even torque figures are not that much amazing.
Mercidised it is gearing which gives initial pick-up there is nothing in mHwack engine which can be called responsible for Scorpio pickup. Scorpio is 2nd gear vehicle that is the 2nd gear is quite wide band and thus it is good for city drive.

Safari is 3ed gear vehicle, Short 1st and 2nd gear have distinct advantage when you are going up on ghats or pulling you out of mud. The wide 3ed gear is good for highways. Those who want to do signal to signal racing and terrorize auto or 2 wheelers can always buy a Scorpio.

Check the torque and torque curve Dicor has better.
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Old 6th May 2010, 17:37   #229
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Guys one of my co-worker informed me that new Tata Safari will have Fiat's 1.9MJD, and Tata is already testing one. I know for sure that this guy knows quiet a few people working with Tata motors.

Has anyone heard something like this?

I hope its a 1.9 TT MJD

Last edited by HammerHead : 6th May 2010 at 17:45.
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Old 6th May 2010, 17:39   #230
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Mercidised it is gearing which gives initial pick-up there is nothing in mHwack engine which can be called responsible for Scorpio pickup. Scorpio is 2nd gear vehicle that is the 2nd gear is quite wide band and thus it is good for city drive.

Safari is 3ed gear vehicle, Short 1st and 2nd gear have distinct advantage when you are going up on ghats or pulling you out of mud. The wide 3ed gear is good for highways. Those who want to do signal to signal racing and terrorize auto or 2 wheelers can always buy a Scorpio.

Check the torque and torque curve Dicor has better.
with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
Guys one of my co-worker informed me that new Tata Safari will have Fiat's 1.9MJD, and Tata is already testing one. I know for sure that this guy knows quiet a few people working with Tata motors.

Has anyone heard something like this?
Finally, some real speculation has come out. And i liked it.
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Old 29th June 2010, 09:25   #231
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Hi Folks,

No news on the next Generation Tata Safari? I am planning to book one this week, need your suggestions on the same. Would request you to kindly update on the latest.
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Old 29th June 2010, 12:01   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
Guys one of my co-worker informed me that new Tata Safari will have Fiat's 1.9MJD, and Tata is already testing one. I know for sure that this guy knows quiet a few people working with Tata motors.

Has anyone heard something like this?

I hope its a 1.9 TT MJD
This is what I told a month or 2 back here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1871226 and some BHP seniors advised me that the TATA sales & services folks dont know anything about their product line-up.

A good lesson for everyone and I wish your information gets true very soon

1.9 MJD with 100-120 horses would be good provided the safari weight comes down to match up or betters the current power to ton ratio !

Prem.
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Old 29th June 2010, 12:55   #233
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A Service Engineer at concord who has attended multiple course on ARIA in Pune told that all new Aria features like Hill Climb Assist and Hill Descent Assist will make way to next generation Safari and ECU and engine will continue. Not sure how reliable his information

Only thing which was certain is that next gen Safari is not being released this year.

Last edited by amitk26 : 29th June 2010 at 12:57.
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Old 29th June 2010, 12:56   #234
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Wait for the Aria and check it out before picking up the Safari. The Aria may just meet your needs better.
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Old 29th June 2010, 13:20   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
@cardeep, amitk26, ACM, tsk1979
I was just trying to explain that a 140BHp TATA DICOR 2.2 still does not has capability to match a SCORPIO in pick-up and even torque figures are not that much amazing. So, if a par experienced company than TATA like, FIAT, build a engine for their motor in range of 100-140 or more BHp's. Then, too it will be the engine which will utilise each and every bit of its power throughout the range of RPM. Which is not the case with 2.2vtt and even 3.0Ltr both of them seems best on the papers above Mahindra's, Toyota,... but when it comes to reality one can easily figure out the difference between a mhawk and DicoR. Both of them are good powertrains, but mhawk utilises every-bit of its essence it has got.
I am not offending TATA creation becuz myself own a TCIC. but, want a car from them which is worth for money that they are offering atleast in engine departement.

We are certainly and Lets not compare the Safari and the Scorpio here.

The Safari has its own charm , its comfort, space and highway mile muching capabilites and the road presence cannot be beaten by the Scorpio

The Scorpio is a good city driven MUV and is good at that, its got a great peppy engine, but is a rocking boat on highways, Not good when it comes to Space and comfort.

Each has their own pro's and con's . Lets leave it at that.

The New Safari will be a league of its own, even beating the Scorpio in all aspects. Lets wait till it comes.
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Old 29th June 2010, 13:29   #236
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New Safari is welcome, But as per my experience since TATA has stablized existing Safari let them don't launch it next 2 years untill present Safari wins the numbers in sales and it is time for people to buy Safari who waited for a long till date. Let TATA do more testing and launch it by 2012. Present except for few interior finish is way head of competetion and we don't expect TATA to launch it again and again which would hammer its resale value.

Regards,

Ravi.
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Old 29th June 2010, 13:39   #237
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The 120 BHP MHawk Scoprio is fater than the 140 BHP 2.2 Dicor Safari only due to the lighter weight and size and of that results in a bouncy ride for the Scorpio. One rarely can have the Pie and eat it as well.

Lets not go down this path.

The 900-1000 odd Safari buyers who buy it inspite of being more expensive than the Scorpio on a model to model basis, do it for a reason, a reason valid atleast for the buyers.
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Old 29th June 2010, 13:44   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaviprem View Post
This is what I told a month or 2 back here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1871226 and some BHP seniors advised me that the TATA sales & services folks dont know anything about their product line-up.

A good lesson for everyone and I wish your information gets true very soon

1.9 MJD with 100-120 horses would be good provided the safari weight comes down to match up or betters the current power to ton ratio !

Prem.
Well the 1.9MJD is capable of churning out 150+ bhp. Even if they detune it down to 140BHP we still have a great and refined engine in the safari and if they make it lighter than the current model then as you said the power to weight ratio goes up and we have a much better car to drive around both on the highway and in the city.

I guess the in gear acceleration /0-100 timings(not necessary on a SUV) would also improve also the torque will be spread out in a more even manner compared to the current engine

Last edited by MihirC : 29th June 2010 at 13:47.
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Old 29th June 2010, 14:19   #239
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Originally Posted by sgunasek View Post
This New Safari might have received some highlights from Range Rover. TATA should make best use of the opportunity from JLR group so that it can take forward their entire vehicles forward to Next Generation models in all aspects.
Engineering wise yes they should but design wise I think Tata should never get close to a Range Rover. If Land rover as a brand is to succeed , the identity should not merge with the Tata Group. It has to stay as a separate entity.
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Old 29th June 2010, 15:20   #240
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Wait for the Aria and check it out before picking up the Safari. The Aria may just meet your needs better.

Thanks ACM,

The looks of Aria have so far not impressed me, i am sure it'll be a great performer. Have seen some scoop pics and sketches of the NG Safari doing the rounds, i also think its nothing but a face lift of the current version. Also i doubt if TML would use a different engine cause they are using the same 2.2 for the Aria. pardon me if thats wrong.

Cheers.
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