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Old 27th September 2010, 22:45   #286
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Originally Posted by MihirC View Post
If you ask me , its pretty simple right, the flagship model gets the excellent 2.2 ltr engine while the model below the flagship model gets the lesser capacity 1.9ltr model.
"Excellent" would be a big-big.....word for that 2.2L unit!

On Tata not paying any royalties to Fiat, I think there are no free lunches in the Corporate World!


Regarding Safari's new positioning, did Tata have any other way to sell the ageing beast!

Last edited by AWD : 27th September 2010 at 22:48.
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Old 28th September 2010, 18:41   #287
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Originally Posted by MihirC View Post
Hi 4X4,

to answer your queries

1) TATA and FIAT share technologies and as far as I am aware TATA does not have to pay any royalty to FIAT for engines, I could be wrong though.

2)If you ask me , its pretty simple right, the flagship model gets the excellent 2.2 ltr engine while the model below the flagship model gets the lesser capacity 1.9ltr model.
@mihir: Tata and Fiat have an agreement to share dealer networks and technologies. Doesn't mean that Tata will get engines for free from Fiat. There has to be some sort of royalty payment.

So going by your simple logic. The flagship Aria and Sumo Grande will share the 2.2 engine and the Safari will have the 1.9 MJD? Sorry to say this mate but your source is wrong on this one. His rational makes no sense to me.

Besides if you read this whole thread, there are people with inside information who have confirmed that an all new Safari is not even on the drawing boards. We are talking about a major refresh in 2011 and I will bet that it will continue with the 2.2 @140 bhp tune.
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Old 28th September 2010, 18:47   #288
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Plonking the Fiat 1.9L(if true) would be a great move & may finally rid the new Safari of the numerous niggles its ancestors faced.
How's that? None of the numerous niggles really relate to the Engine per se do they?
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Old 28th September 2010, 20:18   #289
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Originally Posted by gsyngh View Post
Even though the current shape is 12 years old, but it still does stand out amongst the lot and is definetely a head turner. I sometimes wonder, did the team which designed the Safari in the mid 90's ever think that the car they are designing will look upmarket and remain in the race even after 12 -15 years of it existance.
Totally agreed. This vehicle has aged so well! Guess the designers have hit upon a Land Rover type special, timeless shape. Which doesnt mean they keep flogging the current model eternally, but yea, makes sense to make the next-gen evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

But who are we kidding? Surely the buffoon boffins at Tata are going to mess the next Safari up by giving it Vista headlamps and smiling grill (not to mention christmas lamps). Aria redux. Goddd!
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Old 28th September 2010, 20:29   #290
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How's that? None of the numerous niggles really relate to the Engine per se
It won't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a Fiat Diesel engine would be more reliable than a Tata motor anyday!
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Old 28th September 2010, 20:54   #291
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It won't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a Fiat Diesel engine would be more reliable than a Tata motor anyday!
Please support you writing with some data then it looks proper. Otherwise it feels just as some talks. For your kind information 2.2 engine is very reliable and there is no doubt about it.
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Old 28th September 2010, 20:59   #292
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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Please support you writing with some data then it looks proper.
The forum is full of such data, search various Safari & Punto/Linea ownership threads. Also, take into consideration the Fiat motors that are used under the hood of Swift/Dzire Diesel. Fiat is the winner of numerous awards worldwide for its fabulous engines.
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Old 28th September 2010, 21:24   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
Plonking the Fiat 1.9L(if true) would be a great move & may finally rid the new Safari of the numerous niggles its ancestors faced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
How's that? None of the numerous niggles really relate to the Engine per se do they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
It won't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a Fiat Diesel engine would be more reliable than a Tata motor anyday!
It sounds like you didn't understand my question so I'll ask again - do the numerous niggles that you hear about the Safari have anything to do with the Engine? Or do they pertain to various other components like the fuel injection system, the electricals, the electronics etc?

Or does everything under the hood become the "ENGINE"?
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Old 28th September 2010, 22:40   #294
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Originally Posted by AWD View Post
Plonking the Fiat 1.9L(if true) would be a great move & may finally rid the new Safari of the numerous niggles its ancestors faced.
Its a win-win situation to snatch that Fiat engine, in no time every other car maker would want that!
I think it is part of Tatas strategy, not to invest heavily in engine technologies. Cummins in case of Heavy Vehicles and Fiat in case of Passenger cars [Ford in case of JLR]. It makes sense considering the investment required to develop an engine. Customer also benefit, as they always get a proven engine. TM, could concentrate on other aspects and overall product and service, leaving the engines to their partners who are specialist at that. So far, this worked well for Heavy vehicles...
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Old 29th September 2010, 01:51   #295
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I don't think tata is shying away from developing it's own engines. The arrangement with fiat might only be a short term one. We already know Tata-JLR combine want to develop engines in-house for their high-end vehicles. Also, I doubt if Safari is going to come with a MJT. March, 2011 is too early for all new safari. When ever it comes expect it to be much more expensive than the present one.

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Besides if you read this whole thread, there are people with inside information who have confirmed that an all new Safari is not even on the drawing boards.
If all new safari is not even on the drawing board, then what about the pics on this thread.
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Old 29th September 2010, 06:47   #296
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I dont know about others. But, I prefer to have the ALL NEW SAFARI with its "displayed" 3.0L DICOR engine with rated power of 190+ bhp though it can go well beyond.
This way, it will directly take on Fortuner and Endy and of course with Tata's killing price can expect to do better than those.
I would still like to see the spare tyre in the rear door, but not sure what blocks them technically in its combination with the 3 row seating !

Prem.
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Old 29th September 2010, 21:04   #297
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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
If all new safari is not even on the drawing board, then what about the pics on this thread.
The pics on this thread are a major refresh. Please take some time and read the thread from the beginning and it will be clear to your. What I mean by all new platform is not the same safari with changes in interior, bumper, headlights etc. By new Safari, I mean all new platform, chasis, body, etc.. similar to the Aria.
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Old 30th September 2010, 15:58   #298
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Tata's new SUV plaform is known as the X2, with Aria being the first offering based on that. Aria doesn't have monocoque construction and uses a separate chassis, although the chassis is supposed to be lighter than that of Safari, due to use of hydroforming technology. Is it possible that the new Safari (the one without tailgate wheel) is nothing but the existing Safari body (with minimal changes like shifting the stepney location, headlight redesign, etc.) transplanted to the X2 lightweight chassis? It is possible that the company wants to retain the existing look due to the goodwill it enjoys.
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Old 30th September 2010, 17:05   #299
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Think it's highly unlikely.
Maybe the other way around, same platform but all new body and interiors like the Sumo Grande. Please Tata retain good ol' SUV style instead of going soft(rear spare tyre!!!)
Wish when will all the Tata SUVs/MUVs be based on the X2 platforms.
BTW, the existing Safari platform could be used for the Sumo Grande which will able it to be priced low.
(Me waiting for the next gen Xenon he..he..)
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Old 30th September 2010, 19:08   #300
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
The pics on this thread are a major refresh. Please take some time and read the thread from the beginning and it will be clear to your. What I mean by all new platform is not the same safari with changes in interior, bumper, headlights etc. By new Safari, I mean all new platform, chasis, body, etc.. similar to the Aria.
If the pics are for a major refresh why does the title say Next Generation Safari. Next generation/new platform is not making cosmetic changes. If what you say is right then we should change the title of the thread.

I have to concede I didnot read the complete thread.

Last edited by airbender : 30th September 2010 at 19:12.
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