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Old 30th October 2010, 19:30   #346
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Am happy to see that the Sumo Grande and especially the Sumo Victa is being worked upon.These two are just good concepts executed badly.
But i really don't get the idea about the Safari
I mean, everyone is telling that the next gen is some time away, but here it's said january 2011!!! And that too in the range of 8-12 lakhs!!!
If it's the facelifted version(ala Grande) then why is the older Safari going to be sold alongside it?
If the FL safari for 8 lakhs.then what about the Sumo Grande?
HELP
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Old 30th October 2010, 20:34   #347
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This whole thing is getting very confusing. I am afraid that Tata will tie themselves into a knot and confuse the consumer. And like we don't have enough trying to figure out how many SUVs are there that are called Safari, now we have the Sumo Grande Mark III. I don't understand Tata. the Sumo Grande is a failure. Mark II was supposed to make it fly off the shelf which didn't happen. And now Mark III???
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Old 30th October 2010, 20:57   #348
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Whats undergoing a facelift is the present Safari, which despite the timeless looks will only do it good. This should also include changes like the underbody spare. Most probably the higher end variants (GX & VX) will be removed and concentrate on 7.5 to 9 lac zone. This leaves a huge void in the 9 to 13 lac zone.

Now the next gen Safari is not merely a facelift, I think it is an all new SUV based on the X2 platform, used in the Aria. Other than being a much more current looking SUV than the previous gen the new platform will make it a lot lighter, a huge drawback with Indian SUVs. This will slot in between the present Safari and the Aria (I believe this is a major reason why Tata decided to launch 4WD and well specified variants of the Aria at better margins).

The Grande Mark II has done better for Tata, which is not a great deal considering how the first one struggled. It needs much better interiors and improved handling, although thats an achilles heel with Indian UVs. Hoping the Mark III or V3 whatever they call it addresses these drawbacks. Its better late than never.

So ideally this is what the Tata Motors UV line will look like soon:
  • Venture - < 5.5 lacs
  • Sumo Victa & Spacio - 5 to 6.5 lacs
  • Sumo Grande - 6 to 8 lacs
  • Safari (present gen-facelifted) - 7.5 to 9.5 lacs
  • Safari (new gen-X2 platform) - 9 to 13 lacs
  • Aria - 13 to 16 lacs
As with every carmaker there will be an over lap between the top end lower segment and base higher segment models and its upto personal choice. But this will leave Tata with a product line up covering every pocket of the Indian UV market. Historically they have well conceived products with poor application which is where they have struggled. Although now the Vista, Manza and Aria shows us otherwise, which only means that they are coming all guns blazing. This will only benefit the customer who will have more choice.

Last edited by shortbread : 30th October 2010 at 21:03. Reason: Correction
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Old 30th October 2010, 23:17   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
So ideally this is what the Tata Motors UV line will look like soon:
  • Venture - < 5.5 lacs
  • Sumo Victa & Spacio - 5 to 6.5 lacs
  • Sumo Grande - 6 to 8 lacs
  • Safari (present gen-facelifted) - 7.5 to 9.5 lacs
  • Safari (new gen-X2 platform) - 9 to 13 lacs
  • Aria - 13 to 16 lacs
I would like to see Tata Safari more Luxurious than Aria. They should have made Aria at 9 to 13 lacs and NEW SAFARI for 13 to 16 lacs. after all safari was Tatas 1st attempt of Luxury Vehicle.
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Old 31st October 2010, 04:57   #350
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@ Tushky,

I agree completely, had this been the case everyone would have seen the car as a rival to the likes of Endeavour/Fortuner etc.. A better specced SUV but a few lacs lesser than the MNC ilk. Instead the Aria has been designed with a more roomier profile and people compare it to an Innova and hence more expensive. Even the Endeavour/Fortuner use a ladder chassis and dont come with 6 airbags or 4 wheel discs among others. But yes they are full time SUVs.

Both the Innova and Fortuner are based on the same IMV platform. Other than the powertrain (engine, 4x4) they share the same pool of components and not to forget the chassis. A Fortuner though has a huge mark up over an Innova, I cannot believe the fact that Fortuner has a 110% higher manufacturing cost than a Innova. But its reasonable for the buying folk due to its SUV classification and profile.

But on the other hand it will mean that the next premium SUV from Tata will be priced below the Aria, that can only be good for us.
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Old 31st October 2010, 06:51   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
So ideally this is what the Tata Motors UV line will look like soon:
  • Venture - < 5.5 lacs
  • Sumo Victa & Spacio - 5 to 6.5 lacs
  • Sumo Grande - 6 to 8 lacs
  • Safari (present gen-facelifted) - 7.5 to 9.5 lacs
  • Safari (new gen-X2 platform) - 9 to 13 lacs
  • Aria - 13 to 16 lacs
.
Nice one. I like this spread out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tushky View Post
I would like to see Tata Safari more Luxurious than Aria. They should have made Aria at 9 to 13 lacs and NEW SAFARI for 13 to 16 lacs. after all safari was Tatas 1st attempt of Luxury Vehicle.
I agree with this being a Safari owner, I dont want to see Safari going down from TATA's flagship status.
However, why not the Safari & ARIA been put up in the similar price range and people should be able to choose one among them based on their need - a family look X-over OR a macho looking SUV.
May be, a wrong example, but from the pricing point of view - Take the case of Outlander & Pajero - Both are almost in the same pricing, but targeting a different set of buyers though very limited set of buyers for various reasons

Prem.
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Old 31st October 2010, 08:56   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Thats an engine that they are working on for their entry level trucks, not for the Safari

They are reported to be working on a version of the 2.2 ltr. Dicor block extended to 3.0 Ltrs with the same characteristics and increased power, but this is not that one.
is this 3.0 litre dicor news from confirmed sources?
Even so, is this expected in new safari?
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Old 31st October 2010, 13:27   #353
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This months Autocar states that , the refreshed Safari can take more time if Tata decides to use the X2 platform .
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Old 31st October 2010, 20:03   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxx View Post
is this 3.0 litre dicor news from confirmed sources?
Even so, is this expected in new safari?
The last I heard about a new BS IV 3.0 liter engine was that it was in a bus. Upon googling I found the article - Tata Motors showcases the Tata Starbus Skool and Tata Xenon at the 'Made in India' show | TradingMarkets.com


Here is an excerpt:
Quote:
Powered with a new generation Tata 3-litre DICOR BS-IV compliant engine the Starbus Skool is available with 17-seater, 32-seater and 52-seater options.
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Old 1st November 2010, 09:09   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
The Grande Mark II has done better for Tata, which is not a great deal considering how the first one struggled. It needs much better interiors and improved handling, although thats an achilles heel with Indian UVs. Hoping the Mark III or V3 whatever they call it addresses these drawbacks. Its better late than never.
Do you have some evidence like, sales numbers etc to assess that the Mark II Grande is doing better? BTW selling 2 is a 100% increase over selling 1 but it's all relative...

Tata smartly has clubbed the sales numbers of the Grande and Victa together so it is hard to know how this is doing. Tata fans will obviously conclude that more of them are Grandes than less...
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Old 1st November 2010, 14:56   #356
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In the present light of a 'new' Grande coming out, don't the pics posted earlier look similar to the grande than the safari? I mean the scoops (which shows off the headlights, front portion mainly) not the PS Job.

Could this be the facelifted Grande?
What do you guys think?
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Old 1st November 2010, 17:13   #357
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@Dryice- Now that's something to ponder about seriously.
The scoop pics DO look like a grown up Sumo Grande, but who can tell?
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Old 1st November 2010, 18:33   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Now the next gen Safari is not merely a facelift, I think it is an all new SUV based on the X2 platform, used in the Aria.
That's what the TML executives were quoted as saying. The X-2 based SUV is to be positioned above the Safari. Will probably be designated differently too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Other than being a much more current looking SUV than the previous gen the new platform will make it a lot lighter, a huge drawback with Indian SUVs.
A lot lighter? The X2 platform hasn't resulted in a light crossover (the Aria weighs well over 2 tonnes) so one wonders how the new SUV would be made lighter. We were told that the hydroforming process (used in X2) results in weight saving. Somehow that hasn't happened with the Aria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fz_rider View Post
This months Autocar states that , the refreshed Safari can take more time if Tata decides to use the X2 platform .
There's a refreshed Safari on the existing chassis to be out in the beginning of 2011. Plus there's an all-new SUV based on X2 that is to be positioned above the Safari.

Last edited by directinjection : 1st November 2010 at 18:36.
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Old 1st November 2010, 20:48   #359
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Yes it is possible that the pictures posted in this thread could be of the new Grande.
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Old 2nd November 2010, 13:30   #360
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@ Direct Injection,

I agree at 1.92 tonnes (Kerb weight) it is not exactly light. But compare this with a 4WD Safari, it weighs more than 250 kgs less and that is despite being roomier, better equipped and having 3 rows of seats.

Aria's weight is in the same ballpark as the Fortuner or Endeavour (4WD). That said all these are UVs using a ladder frame chassis, a comparable mono chassis will make it a lot lighter.

@ 4addict

If you read carefully when I mentioned that it is doing better, I also stated 'which is not a great deal considering how the first one struggled'. Tata cunningly combines the sales numbers for various models, that said if you compare the post '09 sales after the Mark II the jump is quite evident especially since there has been no changes to the Victa.
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