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Old 25th January 2010, 09:42   #76
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This is the country where companies put some sticker, change front grill and call 'all new', 'limited edition', 'sports'. So the one shown in Auto EXPO BS IV compliance vehicle can be called as facelifted 2010 Safari, as it exceeds the 'face lift' requirement in this country.

Secondly the all new Safari with LR homage front is what I am eagerly looking for. I do not expect anything soon as this launch may create confusion among customers because of the launch of ARIA. According to me TATA will establish ARIA's position first and think of launching new Safari.
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Old 25th January 2010, 12:27   #77
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Latheesh see all pics (some 15 plus so far) on of the camofladge cars clearly seems to show lines of headlight much like the face lifted Merc SL headlights and smiling face being a common theme I don't think it will be close to LR - That camoflage is purposely bulked up to confuse. It will be a somewhat U shaped face with SL type headlights stretched back over bonnet/side fenders. Bit of Renault and some hints of ARIA cross breed. For that matter it is highly highly unlikely they can get away with a car which has square front and the same round rolly polly rest of the car from the A pillar onwards!

Last edited by canonball : 25th January 2010 at 12:28.
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Old 27th January 2010, 16:11   #78
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i was returning from work late night @ 11:30 on Monday. Dead tired and half asleep, when I saw a convoy of 6 vehicles zooming past us. First the aria all covered up, followed by an Innova V , then a covered up Safari with the Scorpio Mhawk followed by a Grande MkII and a Xylo E8 ABS. I told my driver to slowly follow them and maintain some distance so that they dont get a whiff of it. They stopped after SKF bearings and Before the tata motors Chinchwad plant to relieve their bladders.

I asked my driver to stop the car ahead of them and went ahead to ask them about the closed Aria -- i did ask the TML employee who was with the driver about the reason for covering the Aria and Safari since they were already launched. Without disclosing too much he mentioned that we are doing some final rounds of testing for the R&D team to make changes to the final version. On prodding a bit he said that we would be seeing both the Aria and a facelift version of Safari soon. No news on the all new Safari -- he said it would not happen for atleast 15 months. for the Grande he said that they were testing the ABS systems of both Xylo vs their inhouse abs system. There were a good amount of gadgets inside all the vehicles.

Can any technical person shed light on what these gentlemen where up to?
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Old 27th January 2010, 16:36   #79
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Originally Posted by kpbhatt View Post
First the aria all covered up, followed by an Innova V , then a covered up Safari with the Scorpio Mhawk followed by a Grande MkII and a Xylo E8 ABS


i think these guys must be calculating the
power out put
behavior of the vehicle
FE
other technical aspect
of all the Cars and trying to improve their product

as far as i know the drivers keep changing their cars turn by turn and give their expert report on how their product feels and behaves as compared to other brands, so as to give a tough fight to the competitor
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Old 27th January 2010, 17:13   #80
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Originally Posted by kpbhatt View Post
i was returning from work late night @ 11:30 on Monday. Dead tired and half asleep, when I saw a convoy of 6 vehicles zooming past us. First the aria all covered up, followed by an Innova V , then a covered up Safari with the Scorpio Mhawk followed by a Grande MkII and a Xylo E8 ABS. I told my driver to slowly follow them and maintain some distance so that they dont get a whiff of it. They stopped after SKF bearings and Before the tata motors Chinchwad plant to relieve their bladders.

I asked my driver to stop the car ahead of them and went ahead to ask them about the closed Aria -- i did ask the TML employee who was with the driver about the reason for covering the Aria and Safari since they were already launched. Without disclosing too much he mentioned that we are doing some final rounds of testing for the R&D team to make changes to the final version. On prodding a bit he said that we would be seeing both the Aria and a facelift version of Safari soon. No news on the all new Safari -- he said it would not happen for atleast 15 months. for the Grande he said that they were testing the ABS systems of both Xylo vs their inhouse abs system. There were a good amount of gadgets inside all the vehicles.

Can any technical person shed light on what these gentlemen where up to?
Good to Know TATA is making all round efforts right from offering more features and ride comforts with better handling.

Now it is evident with competitor vehicles Innova and Xylo involved in their test vehicles covey TATA now take the market competition very seriously and provide the best on TATA's new offerings and this will minimize customer becoming guinea pigs for TATA vehicles in initial years.

Innova V tested along with Aria makes the air clear as to against which vehicle Aria is to be primarily pitched in terms of market positioning and now this also gives an clearer idea Aria will be priced lower than Innova.

Grande MKii with ABS and Airbags offered at additiona 35K across all variants will take the fight on the Xylo reasonably well. TATA do think about the replacement of the lousy MKii dash
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Old 27th January 2010, 18:01   #81
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That dashboard was what I think primarily killed the Grande. After all the effort they put into the exteriors, and other features they shot themselves in the foot with that dashboard. It will be a huge struggle for the Grande to make any sort of a comeback, but better late than never.
Hoping, no praying that these lessons have been incorporated to the likes of the Aria and the future reworked Safari.
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Old 28th January 2010, 11:26   #82
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Were you able to gather what they meant by safari facelift as chroming wheels, ORVM's, and a new interior sure does not warrent the type of testing you are stating!!! As I mentioned here/elsewhere there is a reskin Safari (new face) with some mechanical changes around the corner
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Old 28th January 2010, 14:59   #83
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I think we should create a new terminology directory on Team bhp, state as to what a face lift, reskin, new platform etc..etc... means and how they are different from each other. It will help end the confusion
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Old 28th January 2010, 15:10   #84
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Were you able to gather what they meant by safari facelift as chroming wheels, ORVM's, and a new interior sure does not warrent the type of testing you are stating!!! As I mentioned here/elsewhere there is a reskin Safari (new face) with some mechanical changes around the corner
no details -- he was tightlipped about it -- he was ready to share all that i already knew about the Aria and Grande MkII but on the Safari he said there are changes being done for emission norms -- but he didnt utter a word about any changes to mechanicals or interiors -- he didn't let me peep in either. As the other pics have shown the front and the rear did not look exactly like the current gen Safari.
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Old 28th January 2010, 17:50   #85
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shortbread you are right but if you see previous pages no one will reach a concensis there will be 4 million variations that people will throw back as we did whilst exchanging on the fact that chroming mirrors, wheels, and changing leather shades in interior is NOT a facelift!! to which aruguments kept coming back! I think something needs to be qouted say some textbook this being India we don't believe each other unless in print
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Old 28th January 2010, 21:17   #86
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no details -- he was tightlipped about it -- he was ready to share all that i already knew about the Aria and Grande MkII but on the Safari he said there are changes being done for emission norms -- but he didnt utter a word about any changes to mechanicals or interiors -- he didn't let me peep in either. As the other pics have shown the front and the rear did not look exactly like the current gen Safari.

Bhatt, btw, could your friend confirm whether or not a new 3-litre Dicor in under development / testing?
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Old 28th January 2010, 22:47   #87
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for the Grande he said that they were testing the ABS systems of both Xylo vs their inhouse abs system. There were a good amount of gadgets inside all the vehicles.
This is gud news. Grande MK II with ABS. Did the TML folks talk abt a new version?
Gadgets?? What kind? Please elaborate.
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Old 29th January 2010, 10:49   #88
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Originally Posted by VINUMON View Post
Bhatt, btw, could your friend confirm whether or not a new 3-litre Dicor in under development / testing?



I guess this is what you are talking about. This engine was displayed at the auto expo.

Last edited by Technocrat : 29th January 2010 at 22:21. Reason: Spacing out the two images for better viewability, thanks
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Old 29th January 2010, 11:22   #89
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But Aslam, the same thing was discussed earlier in the thread. I think this engine on display is ntended for the low floor bus. 470 nm trq. makes sense for a commercial application, I am inclined to think. But then I will be quite happy if proved wrong.
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Old 29th January 2010, 12:36   #90
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But Aslam, the same thing was discussed earlier in the thread. I think this engine on display is ntended for the low floor bus. 470 nm trq. makes sense for a commercial application, I am inclined to think. But then I will be quite happy if proved wrong.
193bhp from 3l engine ~ 64bhp/litre.
470Nm from 3l engine ~ 153Nm/litre.

Compare this to 1248cc Fiat Multijet engine which produces 75bhp and 190Nm torque. Also compare this to 7.1 litre Volvo B7R engine which produces 290bhp and 1200Nm torque.
There is a stark difference between specific power output for these two engines and there is a reason for that. Commercial applications require engines with lower rpms and which are less stressed out to crank out power and torque.

I don't think the TATA engine under the scope is discussion is intended for heavy commercial vehicle applications. My reasoning may be flawed but I seriously hope it isn't.
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