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Old 10th September 2010, 10:51   #61
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I am quite surprised why GM is not able to sell its cars , Beat is a good value for money vehicles , probably our demographics donít like the flashy looks & low boot space donít help matters either. Polo and Figo are slowly but surely driving away sales from Maruti.
The face lifted i10 is going to surely lift the sagging sales chart of Hyundai. The upcoming Toyota Etios will surely add fuel to this hot segment.

When will Honda learn to sensibly price vehicles like Jazz , a brilliant product killed by its own marketing team.

Tata Nano is slowly building up numbers despite the negative publicity. Multiple variants of the Nano is sure to corner a bigger market pie.

Ford & Honda is just banking on one star product (Figo & City) over dependence might kill the golden goose one day.
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Old 10th September 2010, 11:38   #62
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Quote:
- About 972 miscellaneous Mahindra Jeeps sold in August, while the hardcore Maruti Gypsy 4x4 did 161. Bet atleast a couple of these were fresh offroaders on Team-BHP
GTO Excellent write up !

Can you elaborate on the Jeep sales? Models and their number sold

Also has HM sold any Amby's ? i could see few new models running here in chennai but dont know if its a new shell in old chassis or a brand new one
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Old 10th September 2010, 11:52   #63
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It will be interesting see the City/Vento numbers next month, when Vento's will roll out from shownrooms while city's are being offered free insurance + corp discount. This is what we wanted. A fierce competition.
Well done GTO! The first of it's kind in TBHP.
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Old 10th September 2010, 11:57   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S350L-E240 View Post
Am quite amazed with the numbers Mercedes & BMW are getting at, also considering they are close to 600 units a month do you think by the middle of 2011 they could be close to or crossing the 1000 per month mark? I think so, and like I said before the F10 was launched it will completely outsell the W212, and looks like I was right and this hasn't even begun yet wait till the BMW 520d and it's corporate editions come out sometime in early 2011 which will be the final dagger for the W212.

Mercedes-Benz truly lost out this time around with the E-Class now all they can perhaps do is try offer some more loadings at a cheaper price, after all it is now in the market for about 12 months so a few additions would help.
I dont agree with your comments. Firstly, F10 has NOT completely outsold the W212. The number is 260 odd to 210 odd in BMW's favor, but also take into account that it is just the second full month since F-10 deliveries started.

And India is too small a market to base your conclusion on - that 'Mercedes has truly lost out'. No, they haven't. Take for example the US. There, in August, the E class outsold the new 5 by almost a margin of 2:1 !!

I haven't driven the new 5 series, but I have had the privilege of driving the new E class for quite a duration of time. Its a truly well rounded and a very accomplished piece of machinery. The F-10 may or may not have trumped it. But, atleast for our geography, I feel, the F-10 has one major drawback. It lacks presence.

Last edited by rrsteer : 10th September 2010 at 11:58.
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Old 10th September 2010, 12:06   #65
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Excellent write up GTO !

I recently went to see the demo vehicle for Vento at VW Downtown, Bangalore

Must say that the base line model is quite disappointing for the following reasons :

01. No option to install anything other than Kenwood ICE units due to compliance issues of the factory wiring that comes with the Vento or any other VW models. If we do opt for any other units, we have to kiss the warranty good-bye.

02. No option to get a remote-key entry of our own choice and the base line model does not come with one either. Worst part is that as of now, VW cannot give us the remote-key option even if we are ready to pay the additional amount. But i hear they may or may not give this as an additional option later on.

I think compared to the City with its free-insurance offer, Vento will probably not make as much sales in their base line model. But i have been told that they have received over a 100 bookings even before the arrival of the demo/test-drive vehicle here in bangalore. This is what Srikanth at VW, Downtown mentioned who I believe is also a Bhpian.

My point being that people maybe forced to opt for the higher priced variants due to the restrictions.
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Old 10th September 2010, 12:39   #66
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Much appreciate the 5 star thread rating, guys. Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilead View Post
Not to nitpick, but these are manufacturer to dealer sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
I have a question: how do car companies typically report sales?
Shipments to the yards. Still very representative as:

- The cars are being shipped for the purpose of sale.

- Dealers don't like fat inventories. The thinner the better, else interest costs (finance on inventory) shoot through the roof.

Inventory costs have broken the backs of some dealers. Say, as a dealer, you have 50 unsold Hyundai's in stock. That's about 2.5 crores in inventory gathering dust. An amount that would otherwise earn 2.5 - 5.0 lakhs in monthly interest alone.

Quote:
A good portion of the i20s sold in the recent past are the 'era' variant and it costs 4.5L.
Nearly 5.5 lakhs (and over) on the road in most cities. Also, Hyundai insists that the base version does not make up anywhere near the majority of sales. I believe them, as it applies to most other premium hatchbacks too.

Quote:
There is a massive production constraint at the moment.
For the Fiesta? Why then are Fiesta special editions being rolled out with cut-price tags (not to mention, dealer discounts too)? Usually, when the production doesn't meet demand, prices go up, not down.

Quote:
Are the JLR numbers still too small to report?
I think so . JLR isn't sharing any numbers yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
BTW the Alto which is the top selling is it with 1000cc or the earlier one or a combined figure?
Sorry, Maruti has provided a combined number only. Don't know the split between the 0.8 and 1.0 liter engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karanraheja View Post
One question- Do you think Honda might finally put the thinking cap on and reduce the price/position it sensibly as you put it for the Next Gen Civic?
They will have to. Competition in the C+ segment is very fierce, and the Civic is the only car without a diesel engine option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manishk83 View Post
The deserving do indeed win. And the rest just fall by the wayside.
That, in a nutshell, is the beauty of an open market. Well said, Manish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
The best gets better. Painstakingly created and redefines the analysis unlike any other.
Thank you, Sid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Interesting - who wants to set up a Volvo dealership then ?
I wouldn't mind, as long as its for trucks & buses . Cars can be sold as package deals (buy 5 trucks, get 1 S80 free!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by misquitas View Post
Man, with such exclusive analysis, scoops, road tests, travelogues, etc., I only hope that this does not become a subscription-driven forum one day. Even then, I'd be more than willing to pay my year's subscription.
Thanks Melvyn. I can assure you that Team-BHP will remain free-to-read at all times. The founding principles of this community have been to provide unbiased, honest and in-your-face information to every Indian car owner & enthusiast.

Our guests will appreciate that there isn't even a need to register to access our database. The entire knowledgebase is open & searchable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swathyd View Post
Maruti and tata thrives through selling fiat technology and fiat limps with the same !
Ironical, isn't it? Fiat's revenue is higher from engines sales & royalties than from selling cars. Thus, within the Indian perspective, they are an engine supplier first, then a car maker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S350L-E240 View Post
Coming back to Audi, I am quite surprised in their press release they claim their sales are lesser then BMW / Mercedes due to them being late in the market
Rubbish excuses for failure. Fact is, BMW arrived much later and still took over the lead of the luxo-segment (in 2009). Audi has done a shoddy job with its marketing & distribution. Even now, dealers are confused about which variants are offered, and cannot commit on delivery periods (some extending as long as 6 months for the A4s).

VW is showing its subsidiaries how work is done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goacom View Post
I wonder if any one has done market share analysis by revenue rather than by unit sales.
What an idea! Will surely attempt sometime in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshguy View Post
Can you elaborate on the Jeep sales? Models and their number sold
What you see in the opening posts is all that Mahindra has provided. I guess Majors and the like?

Last edited by GTO : 10th September 2010 at 12:59.
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Old 10th September 2010, 12:53   #67
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Volvo cars are a totally different entity from buses and trucks, now go figure the numbers!
If this was the case, Manish would have snapped plenty of Volvo cars driven by Karntaka ministers and bureaucrats!

Quote:
I wouldn't mind, as long as its for trucks & buses . Cars can be sold as package deals (buy 5 trucks, get 1 S80 free!).
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Old 10th September 2010, 13:19   #68
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Gto, I Would Be Very Grateful If You Could Have The Model Wise Break Up Of All Cars Sold In India During August Be Uploaded Just Like June & July. Its Been Very Helpfull To Me . Hope To See It Soon.
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Old 10th September 2010, 16:01   #69
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4 out of the top 5 sellers are from the Maruti stable and each product caters to a different segment. Looks like Maruti is on a roll. WagonR numbers are really surprising considering the fact that the WR Vxi and Ritz Lxi prices overlap each other. Alto's 28k should be something like 22k -23k Alto 800 and 6-7k Alto K10's, if past performance is anything to go by. The 20+ year old M 800 outsells the Nissan Micra and the Fiat Punto.

Vista and Manza numbers are disappointing. I believe more than the cars per se, its got more to do with the dealerships and service centres. I drove a Vista QJD BS III the other day, and was pleasantly surprised. What a quantum leap it is from the regular Indica. If Tatas get their act together W.R.T. to QC and A.S.S. they will definitley be a force to reckon with in the passenger car scene.

GM numbers are quite disappointing especially the Beat's 2.5k . Guess its got more to do with the quirky styling. They have brought in some very good schemes in September. Hope they see improved numbers soon.

GTO could we please have that excel sheet. It would be highly useful to those us who would like to do some month on month anaylsis.

Last edited by longhorn : 10th September 2010 at 16:18.
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Old 10th September 2010, 16:05   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goacom View Post
Excellent post, GTO.
I wonder if any one has done market share analysis by revenue rather than by unit sales.
I was thinking on the same lines the other day.

I was wondering how does Fiat fare vis-a-vis competition in $$$ terms (Sorry! but I just can't get over the mess Fiat have made of themselves and of the 2 luscious babes!).

Some back of the envelope calculations:

Fiat: (1800 cars) * (7L avg. per car -> avg of Punto & Linea) = (126 cr.) * (approx. 12% profits) = 15 cr.

Mercedes (a supposedly niche player): (573 cars) * (approx. 40L per car) = (230 cr.) * (approx. 20% profitability) = 46 Cr.

And surprise of surprises:

HM: (1070 cars) * (8L per car -> avg of Amby, Lancer, Cedia, Pajero & Outlander) = (85 Cr.) * (approx. 25% profitability) = 22 Cr.

Assumption: Fiat with it's newly built plant & consequent depreciation will have low margins. Mercedes as a luxury maker would definitely have higher margins than Fiat. HM with completely depreciated assets would have a very high margin.

If even the general direction of the analysis is correct, I don't know what to say!!!

PS: Don't call HM a has-been, ever again!!!

Last edited by manishk83 : 10th September 2010 at 16:24.
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Old 10th September 2010, 16:41   #71
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The Figures of Mahindra does not tally to the numbers shown. The total sales figures is 13795 and not 13641 as mentioned.
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Old 10th September 2010, 18:03   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Ironical, isn't it? Fiat's revenue is higher from engines sales & royalties than from selling cars. Thus, within the Indian perspective, they are an engine supplier first, then a car maker.
Are they play safe by focussing on successful engine rather than producing cars. Their after sales service is not so good so that they need not burn their fingers by expanding sales/service network.
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Old 10th September 2010, 18:21   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
4 out of the top 5 sellers are from the Maruti stable and each product caters to a different segment. Looks like Maruti is on a roll. WagonR numbers are really surprising considering the fact that the WR Vxi and Ritz Lxi prices overlap each other. Alto's 28k should be something like 22k -23k Alto 800 and 6-7k Alto K10's, if past performance is anything to go by. The 20+ year old M 800 outsells the Nissan Micra and the Fiat Punto.
One thing i haven't been able to understand is, compared to their old horses a.k.a alto, 800, swift, wagon-r none of the others have been able to replicate their success. The new generation A-Star, Ritz, Estilo. All these are new generation versions of their oldest selling models. And also to some extent sx4.

On the contrary, Hyundai has i10,i20, verna and all these 3 are modern platforms and are very successful. While santro is doing good numbers too. Getz was a disaster, while i20 is successful. Santro was doing good numbers, its replacement worldwide i10 is doing good too. Even accent is doing good number for its age.

I can't understand why? Are the Maruti owners not willing to go for modern versions of their beloved cars? Or is the blind trust?

This is not targeted at you longhorn, but when you wrote, i had this thought. So just shared it hoping for some good replies and not a brand war between Maruti and Hyundai
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Old 10th September 2010, 18:34   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manishk83 View Post

And surprise of surprises:

HM: (1070 cars) * (8L per car -> avg of Amby, Lancer, Cedia, Pajero & Outlander) = (85 Cr.) * (approx. 25% profitability) = 22 Cr.

PS: Don't call HM a has-been, ever again!!!
HM has been bleeding losses. It had to refer itself to BIFR as 50% of its net worth was wiped off on March 31 2010. It suffered losses even at an operating level (before depreciation and interest came in the way). It continues to bleed as indicated by the June 30 results even at an operating level (Revenues of 152 crores, Losses before Depn and Int - 14 crores).

Have attached their March 31 filings with BSE and you can see.

Further, I do not think mass car makers have the kind of profitability you are referring to, i.e, 20 - 25%. It's far more modest than that.

Cheers,
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Hindustan_Motors_Ltd_010510_Rst.pdf (89.3 KB, 327 views)
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Old 10th September 2010, 19:38   #75
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Firstly, a superb analysis. The ageing sedans, such as Accent and Fiesta are still clocking over 1k units, that is surprising. While individuals make up a majority of this, I still do believe that car rental companies prefer such cars. Thus as long as the demand for premium cabs is high, these cars will be sold. Moreover I have noticed that Hyundai always advertise the Accent during the IPL T20. This could be the reason for its decent sales. I say that the Accent will be around for 2 years at least!
Another surprise is that the Linea is facing falling sales. It's a really good car with all the goodies at a reasonable price tag. Sadly, it's days may be numbered once Vento comes out. Yet another unsung hero from Fiat?
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