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Old 13th September 2010, 22:19   #106
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Originally Posted by vsk2009 View Post
Top model of i20 sells more the base and middle model. But when it comes to Swift/Ritz the middle model is the hot cake. Most of the swift/Ritz on road are vxi models. Punto emotion is very common than dynamic or active. Why the customers are more concerned about safety when it comes to i20 than marutis ?
Its true. I have seen more i20 asta than magna. Sportz and era are recent additions so justified that they are a little low in number.
Compared to that - I see VERY less i10 Asta / Swift Zxi.
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Old 14th September 2010, 00:23   #107
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GM has now tried almost everything to sell its small cars as well as the competition but everything seems to fail after a brief hope or a slight blip in its sales. GM products are by no way inferior to the competition but looks like nothing seems to be working for them.
But if Ford can do it, GM must surely keep trying to succeed.
Parent Ford got big plans and hope for Ford India, where as GM india is abandoned by its parent. Why would American Tax payers pay for a loss making unit in India? Let the Chinese management take over GM India and things may change...
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Old 14th September 2010, 07:57   #108
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Originally Posted by echo77 View Post
Fiat's TOTAL sales were just over half of the #20 car on that list -
Scorpio = 3,082
Fiat TOTAL = 1,812 (Linea = 788; Punto = 1,012; Palio = 12)

Please look at the next image in the first post. And the subsequent posts for number breakup. (A2 segment and Sedans)
I drove my friends new Punto Diesel Emotion with the regular turbo, not the VGT and I must say the performance is pathetic for a hatch that looks like that and cost him 6.3 lacs. The engine at 2500 sounds like it is being strangled and their is almost no turbo thrust, just the lag. Fabia goes like a Locomotive comparatively and don't even talk about the Swift. Not driven the i20 diesel but Autocar says it can do 180+. The Punto was so under powered it is not funny. Of course my friend is FIAT crazy and bought it and I did not say anything directly to him after driving it on the first day because he has already bought the car and won't want to hear bad things about it on the first day but I pity the guy since he had put so much emphasis on performance before buying, he has just got a pretty boring car to drive himself. I have driven new diesels before and they just go husshhh fast. This one seems like nothing is getting better after running the unit in, it was just so so slow. Go back to Italy FIAT. No ones liking ya here. Even I didn't, after being a fan of the Palio's and the Siena's for so many years. It was FIAT who taught us build quality, passion, the stunning Palio 1.6, was the closest Indians could get to an Alfa Romeo, Lancia. But what you giving right now to the customers is just a sham.

FIAT will not sell, the engines just suck. I thought the petrols were bad, when I drove the Diesel, Petrol actually seems better.
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Old 14th September 2010, 08:34   #109
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I don’t think there is too much of problem with the Engine both Petrol and diesel(I am really surprised that a 75BHP Diesel can pull such a heavy CAR). In-fact the Petrol Engine (1.4 L) is quiet responsive. The real problem is the gear ratios and the gear box. The Gear ratio is pretty long. That affects Punto’s performance. The FIAT Multijets used in swift seems to be faster because of the Gear ratios, low weight and of course the tuning. FIAT re-launch Punto with altered gear ratio and good Interior Quality (the uneven panel gaps and rubber fittings are affecting the Fiat’s Sales).
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Old 14th September 2010, 08:46   #110
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Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
Parent Ford got big plans and hope for Ford India, where as GM india is abandoned by its parent. Why would American Tax payers pay for a loss making unit in India? Let the Chinese management take over GM India and things may change...
But I thought that the Indian operations were the ones making money while the ailing American parent was the one in bad shape. That was one of the reasons the Indian ops did not close down. Though this may no longer be true as I last heard that GM America had repaid all its federal loans.
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Old 14th September 2010, 11:32   #111
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Old 14th September 2010, 13:57   #112
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Can we have breakup of petrol/diesel sales? Also like somebody said previously instead of units the market share should be determined by revenue? How much is the total revenue for maruti and hyundai? Any chance that in revenue terms hyndai is better than maruti or closer to maruti than we realise?

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Old 14th September 2010, 16:07   #113
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Originally Posted by vishnurp99 View Post
Can we have breakup of petrol/diesel sales? Also like somebody said previously instead of units the market share should be determined by revenue? How much is the total revenue for maruti and hyundai? Any chance that in revenue terms hyndai is better than maruti or closer to maruti than we realise?
Fat chance of that happening. Hyundai's best sellers are the i10 and Santro models which are priced not too far away from competing MSIL models. What you said could probably could have been true if the Sonata was selling around 12 k units month on month in place of the i10. Hyundai will be relegated to 3rd spot sooner than later. The fight is going to be between Maruti and Tata for the numero uno position.

Last edited by longhorn : 14th September 2010 at 16:09.
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Old 14th September 2010, 16:38   #114
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Originally Posted by abhi1309 View Post
It was FIAT who taught us build quality, passion, the stunning Palio 1.6, was the closest Indians could get to an Alfa Romeo, Lancia. But what you giving right now to the customers is just a sham.

FIAT will not sell, the engines just suck. I thought the petrols were bad, when I drove the Diesel, Petrol actually seems better.
The engines dont suck. After all their diesel is the largest selling engine in India. Maruti & Tata are laughing all the way to bank, just because of that engine.

It is that Linea and Punto cars are heavy for these engines plus have faulty ergonomics due to which customers do not like these. If FIAT wants to continue with these cars then they need to provide more powerful engines plus sort out other niggling issues of the cars. Theirs is the only company going downhill in a market booming with demand. Pathetic management.
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Old 14th September 2010, 21:01   #115
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The D Segment sedans:

Even when spending over a crore rupees, the Indian customer wants practicality. That's precisely why the Porsche SUV + sedan outsell its 2 seater sports cars in a 6:1 ratio. Shocking because these cars haven't made Porsche the icon that it is today. Money talks, we want 4 doors, stupid!
Not only in India -- in the states too, the Panamera is the best selling porsche to date this year, moving ~ 4900 units stateside, but the bigger news is that it has sold ~25K units worldwide to date, which is a big # for something that looks like a squished bug (thats VW beetle to all you nubiles).
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Old 15th September 2010, 00:49   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akj53
It is that Linea and Punto cars are heavy for these engines plus have faulty ergonomics due to which customers do not like these. If FIAT wants to continue with these cars then they need to provide more powerful engines plus sort out other niggling issues of the cars.
I accept the heavy part, but not the ergonomics. I drove a Punto-D for 3 days (250 odd kms) and saw no issue with the ergonomics. Just that the engine was puny for the obese body that it was mated with.

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Originally Posted by chevelle
One thing i haven't been able to understand is, compared to their old horses a.k.a alto, 800, swift, wagon-r none of the others have been able to replicate their success. The new generation A-Star, Ritz, Estilo. All these are new generation versions of their oldest selling models. And also to some extent sx4.
The Alto and WagonR are old. And the M800 is really ooooooooooold. But the Swift ?

Ritz has its A.S.S. (literally) to blame. A* - lack of space and almost no boot & Estilo has its van-type looks. But even with these cars with disabilities, the sales is respectable when compared to many of its peers - just that they dont sell like the regular MSIL bes-sellers.

The SX4 sells close to any of its peers other than City, inspite of not having a diesel which its peers (Verna, Fiesta, Linea etc have). Add a diesel there and see the figures changing.
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Old 15th September 2010, 13:00   #117
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Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
where as GM india is abandoned by its parent
GM India's parent is now SAIC (China).

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Originally Posted by rangarx View Post
Bad to see the much deserving and tech laden brand like Volvo gets lost in the crowd.
What is deserving about the Volvo S80? Sure, its a good sedan, but the new E Class and 5 series are decidedly superior. Plus, they also have the badge. The S80 is a "good" car while the E & 5 are "excellent".

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Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
The A-Star has not been successful because of the poor legroom at the rear and an almost inexistent boot. Serves they right. This ought to be a wake up call for them that they cannot just shove anything down the customer's throat.
Also poorly positioned. The A-Star's price tag results in formidable competition. Maruti should have priced it cheaper, and probably will sometime in the future (a la Versa -> Eeco).

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Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
We always say Maruti will be affected some new launch or the other and every time there is a drop in their sales a lot of people start predicting Maruti's fall from the top, but Maruti pulls back every time proving everyone wrong. Hats off to Maruti.
So true. To Maruti's credit, they have been working hard too. In the last 5 - 6 years:

- They got an excellent diesel engine under the hood
- Innumerable launches & upgrades (Dzire, Ritz, Eeco, New WagonR, Alto K10, SX4 VVT etc.)
- Continuously expanding dealer & service network
- Mega marketing budget
- Topping customer satisfaction ratings year after year

Quote:
Originally Posted by e92335 View Post
Not only in India -- in the states too, the Panamera is the best selling porsche to date this year, moving ~ 4900 units stateside, but the bigger news is that it has sold ~25K units worldwide to date, which is a big # for something that looks like a squished bug (thats VW beetle to all you nubiles).
Thanks for the info.
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Old 15th September 2010, 13:45   #118
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[quote=supremeBaleno;2069734
The Alto and WagonR are old. And the M800 is really ooooooooooold. But the Swift ?

The SX4 sells close to any of its peers other than City, inspite of not having a diesel which its peers (Verna, Fiesta, Linea etc have). Add a diesel there and see the figures changing.[/quote]

Swift is already a 10-yr old design. Yes 10 years. The current swift on road was launched in 2005. So for me its old compared to its peers.

Here is a link for more info on Swift a.k.a Cultus:

Suzuki Swift - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SX4 also used to sell between 1500-2000 units a month. I agree its respectable but i was expecting segment bursting sales which hasn't happened.

And as i said earlier, they are doing good numbers, but they are suppose to replicate the models they are suppose to replace which they are not doing.
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Old 15th September 2010, 15:32   #119
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Originally Posted by chevelle View Post
Swift is already a 10-yr old design. Yes 10 years. The current swift on road was launched in 2005. So for me its old compared to its peers.

Here is a link for more info on Swift a.k.a Cultus:

Suzuki Swift - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hey Cheve, you please read that link carefully by yourself.

The 2000 model Swift is not the current one, but Suzuki Ignis. It is replaced by the current Swift in 2004-05.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevelle View Post
SX4 also used to sell between 1500-2000 units a month. I agree its respectable but i was expecting segment bursting sales which hasn't happened.
Which sedan other than DZire, Indigo and City outsells SX4 by a huge margin? None, IMO. Verna has a Diesel engine but still struggles around the 2K range. Fiesta also has a Diesel engine, but sells around 1K only. Same is case for Linea and Accent.

Last edited by romeomidhun : 15th September 2010 at 15:35.
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Old 15th September 2010, 15:52   #120
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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Hey Cheve, you please read that link carefully by yourself.

The 2000 model Swift is not the current one, but Suzuki Ignis. It is replaced by the current Swift in 2004-05.


Which sedan other than DZire, Indigo and City outsells SX4 by a huge margin? None, IMO. Verna has a Diesel engine but still struggles around the 2K range. Fiesta also has a Diesel engine, but sells around 1K only. Same is case for Linea and Accent.
Let me quote you a para from the article

'The Suzki Swift began as a marketing and manufacturing rebadge of the Suzuki Cultus a supermini (or subcompact) manufactured and marketed worldwide across three generations and four body configurations—three-door hatchback, four-door sedan, five-door hatchback and two-door convertible—and using the Suzuki G engine family'

The one we had before the k series came also had G engine family. It was G13 i guess. Correct me if i am wrong. And on the same platform they launched Ignis. So it was carry forwarded.

Please read my post carefully, i said the current swift was launched in 2005 and 5 years is a standard product cycle as far as auto industry is concerned. So i expected a new swift this year, but suzuki will bring it next year which is not a big deal imo.

Also, only the chassis were strengthened for 2005 model change. So i would still say, the base or the manufacturing is 10 years old.

Its more or less similar to Wagon R. The new Wagon R is quite a different beast compared to previous versions. Still the base is Wagon R so the fact remains, its an old design.

Anyways, this is a sales thread so lets not go off topic discussing various models.

As for Verna sales which is close to sx4, i think most of the sales are coming from petrol verna rather than diesel. I don't know its breakdown. Its just my guess.

I think fiesta, dzire, accent, indigo comes a segment down. So no point comparing them. It will be interesting to see what Vento does to SX4, Linea and City.

YMMV
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