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Old 13th September 2010, 12:06   #1
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Default Maruti to use high strength steel in its variants by 2012

Found this on the internet today. Found it quite interesting, since so much had been discussed on the Maruti 'tin boxes' on this forum

Quote:
The country's largest passenger car maker Maruti Suzuki said that it would start using high strength steel in majority of variants by 2012, a move that will reduce the carbon emission by decreasing the weight of vehicles.

"We plan to use high strength steel in majority of car models by 2012," Company's DGM (Supply Chain) SK Gupta told reporters here on the sidelines of Steel Expo.

"High strength steel with less thickness will result in less fuel consumption of a vehicle and will ultimately reduce carbon dioxide emission," he asserted.

Maruti has gradually started using high strength steel instead of normal steel in model 'A Star' that has reduced the carbon emission to 109 mg per km from 150 mg per km, he said.

"This high strength steel is used in floor and chassis of the vehicle which also reduces weight of the car by 120 kg," he said.

Maruti consumes 6 lakh million tonnes of steel per annum and 50 per cent of it is being imported from Japan and Korea. "Out of the imported 50 per cent of steel, 15-20 per cent accounts for high strength steel," he said.

However, he added that use of high strength steel would result in jacking up input cost by 15-20 per cent.
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The interesting part is highlighted. Looks like Maruti's are going to get even thinner sheet metal

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 13th September 2010 at 12:08.
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Old 13th September 2010, 12:56   #2
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Another example of negligence from MSIL towards Indian customers.

They started using High Tensile Steel for A-star only because the same thing is exported to Europe as NISSAN PIXO which should meet higher Safety norms. Companies like Daewoo/Chevrolet were using the same from ages.

So MSIL took all these days to find the 'advantage' of using High tensile Steel.???
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Old 13th September 2010, 13:58   #3
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Will the Onmi get this upgrade? Lot of Indian's life is at stake, you see...
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Old 13th September 2010, 14:16   #4
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High tensile steel reduces the weight. It does not mean the current steel used is not safe. Its just heavier for the same safety that it provides.
The tin-box feeling is due to the panels and not the chassis.
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Old 13th September 2010, 16:35   #5
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This is the age of optimizing and thus the reduction in weight, but not at the compromise of safety. Earlier the cars were overweight. Factor of safety was in many cases 3. Now a days with advancement in techniques only the areas requiring more strength are stiffened and therefore some panels cosmetic in nature may give us a feeling of tin box.
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Old 13th September 2010, 17:24   #6
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What will happen to their USP (best-in-class mileage) then?!!
Bad business move if you ask me. Why do this when no-one's complaining? People are only happy to buy cheap Maruti cars and run it cheaply too!
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Old 13th September 2010, 17:34   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindRide View Post
What will happen to their USP (best-in-class mileage) then?!!
Bad business move if you ask me. Why do this when no-one's complaining? People are only happy to buy cheap Maruti cars and run it cheaply too!
After this their cars will become even lighter, so the best in class mileage will actually get better !
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Old 13th September 2010, 18:01   #8
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Quote:
High tensile steel reduces the weight. It does not mean the current steel used is not safe. Its just heavier for the same safety that it provides.
The tin-box feeling is due to the panels and not the chassis.
Quote:
This is the age of optimizing and thus the reduction in weight, but not at the compromise of safety. Earlier the cars were overweight. Factor of safety was in many cases 3. Now a days with advancement in techniques only the areas requiring more strength are stiffened and therefore some panels cosmetic in nature may give us a feeling of tin box.
By panels, if you meant the doors, fenders, etc., I would beg to disagree here.

A good chasis strength might protect the occupants during head on crash, but when the car topples over or when it meets with a side impact crash, it's those mentioned above that protect the occupants. Simply put, any part of the car that might get impacted during a crash, needs to withstand the impact to protect its occupants.

Majority of the existing Maruti's cars are by no means safer than their competitors' cars and they have been making tin boxes for a long time now, hope the new changes are planned for all Maruti's product line-up as well.

Last edited by CliffHanger : 13th September 2010 at 18:05.
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Old 13th September 2010, 18:27   #9
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I believe this move must also be due to the numerous complaints of corrosion seen on brand new Maruti cars within 2-3 years of ownership. I have personally experienced corrosion in my 5 year old Swift and there have been many other BHPians who have experienced this in their Swifts and other Maruti cars.

I live in Mumbai and bang opposite the sea and I have cars right from Maruti Altos to Mercedes Benz in my complex. I have noticed a 2 year old Alto parked at the side of my car to develop corrosion on the edges of the doors. I had the same problem until I brought it to the notice of higher ups in Maruti and 03 doors were replaced on my car free of cost! My car was already out of warranty.

My neighbor who has been staying in the building way before I moved in told me that he had owned Marutis in the past right from an 800 to a Baleno which was his last Maruti car 3 years ago and always experienced corrosion within 2 years of ownership. He has finally moved to a Toyota Corolla and has not issues with corrosion till date. The Corolla is almost 2.5 years old now.
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Old 13th September 2010, 19:07   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
A good chasis strength might protect the occupants during head on crash, but when the car topples over or when it meets with a side impact crash, it's those mentioned above that protect the occupants. Simply put, any part of the car that might get impacted during a crash, needs to withstand the impact to protect its occupants.

Majority of the existing Maruti's cars are by no means safer than their competitors' cars and they have been making tin boxes for a long time now, hope the new changes are planned for all Maruti's product line-up as well.
This one is not just directed at you CliffHanger, but the forum in general.

Is there any proof that cars that have a rather tinny build fare worse than well built cars in crashes? By faring better, I mean purely in terms of the occupants survival chances. Now, its obvious that in low speed crashes, the well built cars will be less badly damaged. That, I do not dispute. But in a high impact accident, where the car's crumple zones and core protection is called into play, what effect, if any, does build have? Please do not bring in anecdotes of the "I saw the guys in the Skoda walk away from a horror smash" sort of argument. I'd like to see scientific data like crash tests.

What I think is that the build makes no difference as long as the core (the A-pillar to C-pillar section) is strong enough. And obviously, several Asian cars which are relatively tinny in comparison to their European cousins fare just as well in the Euro-NCAP and other crash tests. So really, before we accuse Maruti of selling us unsafe cars (particularly the new lot like the A-Star, Ritz), SX4 etc., how about some clear evidence to settle this?

Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 13th September 2010 at 19:08.
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Old 13th September 2010, 23:13   #11
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Earlier we had body and chassis, now we have the structure and the body panel. Now this structure is the load bearing, has strenght at right place with inbuilt crumble jones to absorb impact forces. I have two pictures attached of a car with body panels and only the structure. Body panel serve the cosmetic part.

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Old 14th September 2010, 09:04   #12
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This is pretty scary. I am not a metallurgist, so thinner panels spells unsafe cars for me. I may be wrong but that is impression. As of now MS cars do not look solidly built this adds up to worries now.
Is this some cheap tactic from MSIL to increase milage at the expense of a customers safety.
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Old 14th September 2010, 13:00   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
The interesting part is highlighted. Looks like Maruti's are going to get even thinner sheet metal
You guys are missing it totally - it is High strength steel as compared to normal steel that they are going to use. High strength is a superior kind of steel compared to the normal steel being used currently and it is not sheet metal also. This will have superior physical properties like
- higher tensile strength, better corrossion resistance, lighter in weight for the SAME STRENGTH etc

So guys, be happy for the news that Maruti is giving you a superior product and dont go bashing Maruti just for the sake of it. In fact I was surprised that Maruti was not using this till now. I was under the impression that all car manufacturers are currently using only High strength steel.

Also, the article clearly states this will be used in chasis and floors and not on door panels, like some people misunderstood. This would have been totally an unnecessary cost.

Since Mclaren and Manish have already explained the difference regarding body structure and panels, dont want to elaborate further on this

Last edited by mallumowgli : 14th September 2010 at 13:03.
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Old 14th September 2010, 13:48   #14
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Relax gents. This move is not targeted at customers - its an internal decision Maruti would have made for its business objectives.

As far as customers go, they'll still get to experience the tin-box feeling in Marutis even after this move.
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