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Old 13th August 2010, 22:48   #106
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Originally Posted by MudMover View Post
Nice review. But frankly, I'm not impressed ... this vehicle comes from the same group that owns JLR, and this is all that they can come up with?!! I mean, with easy access to the same technology and know-how that goes into the Range Rover and the Jaguar THIS IS ALL THAT THEY CAN COME UP WITH?!! Seriously, I was expecting this thing to be kitted out with beautifully flowing lines, totally different stonker of an engine, super-dooper suspension and bells & whistles never yet seen in any other Indian SUV/MUV. But this, this is just a Safari stuffed into an Indica skin!

This just doesn't cut it Ratan ol' chap, you better make your designers and engineers hang out more with the 'old chaps' back in 'Sunny old England'. OT: Blimey, this is why we Indians lag behind the Chinese. If the chinese had bought JLR, there would have been Range Rover copies competing with the Nanos by now! Anyway, this is just my take the ultimate judge is the market.
So 'old chap' Ratan rallied his group to buy JLR paying 2 billion USD for his designers to copy!!!!!!!!!!

Amusing...
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Old 13th August 2010, 23:21   #107
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Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
So 'old chap' Ratan rallied his group to buy JLR paying 2 billion USD for his designers to copy!!!!!!!!!!

Amusing...
Good one.

Well, the proof of the pudding is in the tasting. I think we can make up our minds when we actually get to drive the vehicle. At the moment, I have greater faith in a TBHP review than any other due to the sheer number of arguments and counter-arguments. This invariably results in the honest truth being highlighted.

Overall, after following and re-reading this thread multiple times, it seems that:

a. Good vehicle, now wait for the price
b. Most people would agree 13L ex-showroom is a good price (for the top-end variant)
c. We Want this MUV to do better than the Innova. And while grudgingly acknowledging that the Innova does a lot of things right, the Aria seems to do a few better and some not so much - Call it evens

So, while the Aria is a massive developmental jump (some call it quantum leap) for Tata, it is actually now "there" in the comparative automobile world.

Again, in the end,The Price will be the decider.
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Old 13th August 2010, 23:40   #108
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"Safari stuffed into an Indica skin" - isn't it easy to pass judgment while being completely ignorant? Almost like saying that any off-roader is basically a dung beetle.

Oh, now I see, you wanted "totally different stonker of an engine, super-dooper suspension". How could Tata miss these radical new technologies, I guess that while engineering the car, they were too busy to look at super-dooper suspensions systems made by a teambhpian (not to mention the totally different stonker of an engine).

Enough of sarcasm, something tells me that it'll fall on deaf ears. I'd suggest reading the whole test-drive report, since it is quite clear to me that you've not done so. This car, from a manufacturer barely 13 years into the business(of making true 'cars') makes something that gets such positive reviews from a trusted teambhpian, who then compares it to a Toyota and actually rates this higher in key areas? Doesn't that make you think a little before speaking?
To me, the very fact that flyingspur failed to notice the behemoth standing outside when he walked into the showroom spoke volumes.

If that doesn't demonstrate that this is a Safari in an Indica skin, then what does?

The rest of his review was a blur even though he says he will buy it. I will say -- Let him put his money where his mouth is and then I will decide.

Tata may only be 13 years old, but don't count me to be one of their guinea pigs.

I am saying all this not out of sarcasm, but out of genuine concern for the Tata group. Mr. Ratan Tata has turned the Tata group more or less into a one-trick pony by focusing so much on Tata Motors.

I was expecting so more from the Aria (and I don't mean features). In fact I was in the market for an Innova earlier and knowing how overpriced the Innova was, I was hoping that Aria 2WD would smoke the Innova with better quality at a similar or better price point.

I am not saying to Tata -- be cheap -- all I am saying is show me a quality product at, if nothing at all, the same price as your competitors. I just don't see that yet.

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Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
So 'old chap' Ratan rallied his group to buy JLR paying 2 billion USD for his designers to copy!!!!!!!!!!

Amusing...
Why not? If JLR belongs to them, what's stopping Tata from getting a few designers over to India not to copy but to improve the designs? In the process if they duplicate some JLR features/ parts/ designs and increase the bread and butter Tata business, what's wrong?
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Old 14th August 2010, 00:05   #109
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To me, the very fact that flyingspur failed to notice the behemoth standing outside when he walked into the showroom spoke volumes.

If that doesn't demonstrate that this is a Safari in an Indica skin, then what does?
It's fascinating to read logic like this. It seems so bizarrely disconnected, that I don't know where to star.
For example, We don't know where the car was parked when Flyingspur went in to the showroom, not to mention whether this was even in his line of sight. Also, no one can say anything about being preoccupied, since he was there with someone else.

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Originally Posted by nowwhat? View Post
The rest of his review was a blur even though he says he will buy it. I will say -- Let him put his money where his mouth is and then I will decide.
Tata may only be 13 years old, but don't count me to be one of their guinea pigs.
Yeah, the blur was because of the Sealink drive, he was going quite fast. You do not want to be a guinea pig, then don't. Why can't someone test-drive a car and say whether he/she can think about putting money down on the car?

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Originally Posted by nowwhat? View Post
I am saying all this not out of sarcasm, but out of genuine concern for the Tata group. Mr. Ratan Tata has turned the Tata group more or less into a one-trick pony by focusing so much on Tata Motors.
The genuine-ness of the concern is dripping through, because you clearly are clueless about the Tata group (read a bit about the group when he came in vis-a-vis it's current stature).

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Originally Posted by nowwhat? View Post
I was expecting so more from the Aria (and I don't mean features). In fact I was in the market for an Innova earlier and knowing how overpriced the Innova was, I was hoping that Aria 2WD would smoke the Innova with better quality at a similar or better price point.
I am not saying to Tata -- be cheap -- all I am saying is show me a quality product at, if nothing at all, the same price as your competitors. I just don't see that yet.
We know nothing concrete about the prices or features, hold on to your horses. We have to wait for the product to hit the market, judging by the interior quality and NVH comments by Flyingspur, I'd say that this product is indeed "quality".
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Old 14th August 2010, 00:16   #110
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Originally Posted by nowwhat? View Post
To me, the very fact that flyingspur failed to notice the behemoth standing outside when he walked into the showroom spoke volumes.

If that doesn't demonstrate that this is a Safari in an Indica skin, then what does?
Hahaha. I am wondering what does it prove when not noticing ARIA while going in with the intention of test driving a Safari

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Originally Posted by nowwhat? View Post
The rest of his review was a blur even though he says he will buy it. I will say -- Let him put his money where his mouth is and then I will decide.
I don't want to question your attention span. But if you either didn't understand anything or have any doubts you can ask questions too you know.

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Originally Posted by nowwhat? View Post
Tata may only be 13 years old, but don't count me to be one of their guinea pigs.

I am saying all this not out of sarcasm, but out of genuine concern for the Tata group. Mr. Ratan Tata has turned the Tata group more or less into a one-trick pony by focusing so much on Tata Motors.
One trick pony you say, two very small-time tata companies called as tcs and tata steels come to my mind somehow. And I also think tata has some hobby in telecommunications, hotels, etc.

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Originally Posted by nowwhat? View Post
Why not? If JLR belongs to them, what's stopping Tata from getting a few designers over to India not to copy but to improve the designs? In the process if they duplicate some JLR features/ parts/ designs and increase the bread and butter Tata business, what's wrong?
Hmm.. this depends on the pricepoints. This could also mean that ARIA is not going to be expensive because if you put luxury items in ARIA, it would definitely increase the cost. And ARIA is also not a luxury car to offer build you own.
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Old 14th August 2010, 00:21   #111
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) The car is not a very good looking vehicle but cannot be called unattractive. The front grille is overdone and headlights are IMO even smaller than smaller cars like Manza and Vista. This gives it a bit odd look, but looks are subjective.

2) I expected an extra 10 horses because of the size of the vehicle that is going to be used on highways with lots of load. Safari, lets say when somebody is going off roading will have less chance of carrying 7 passengers or if Safari is driven to distant construction/developement sites then also mostly the car will not be fully loaded, but for a car that is more into people carrier some additional power would be welcome.

Also the higher power would comfortably create quite a bit of gap between Xylo and Aria. As we know, Xylo is one of the fastest people carrier in MUV segment as of now.

3) Wipers system's logic is still not clear to me. Why these wipers and what are real advantages ? IMO these wiper systems would be good for a squarish small screen where in one sweep would clear most of the screen. Its applicable for auto-rickshaw, but not here.

4) Pricing this car above Rs. 10-11 lakh is not going to ensure success. Lets say that Aria is priced at around Rs. 16-17 lakh. Then there would be some competition from Endy also. At those prices, SUV's are present in the market and we know how Indians love SUV.

You are spot on. I too mentioned in my report that it looks like a bigger manza grille from the front.

This is a real 5 seater most comfortable in the middle seat, the last row is best suited for kids.

The pricing if in the 13-15 lakh range would be a winner. Just for information, a friend of mine who is looking for a SUV/MUV was opting for a Fortuner as the Innova has generated a tourist taxi imagery. He did not trust the reliablity of the Safari. Guess many others like him have got a option.

Last edited by kavesh55 : 14th August 2010 at 00:23.
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Old 14th August 2010, 00:32   #112
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Sorry, missed your post earlier. I agree with you. Tata is at fault at many places and there is one thread " Protest Against Tata Motors ", but lets forget that for a moment.

Tata took over LR in around June 2008. By that time Aria would have crossed the basic design and development stages. So, the car was already in development when the take over was done.

The next SUV or car coming out from Tata must be better than Aria as they now have acquired LR for a time period sufficient to share developments, but IMO we can spare Aria.
.
Well I also happen to remember reading somewhere limitations with technology sharing due to the previous owners of JLR which was Ford. So slowly im sure they will learn from JLR and incorporate it in their cars.

If you see the dashboard it does resemble Land Rovers a little.

Well im sure their future launches will only raise the bar since they seem to be improving in every way, with every new launch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
So 'old chap' Ratan rallied his group to buy JLR paying 2 billion USD for his designers to copy!!!!!!!!!!

Amusing...
Haha, as i said above there are some legal complications for that too

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Originally Posted by nowwhat? View Post
To me, the very fact that flyingspur failed to notice the behemoth standing outside when he walked into the showroom spoke volumes.
If you wanna hate Tata I say find a better argument, this really dosent count. I agree with Amartya

If that doesn't demonstrate that this is a Safari in an Indica skin, then what does?

The rest of his review was a blur even though he says he will buy it. I will say -- Let him put his money where his mouth is and then I will decide.
flyingspur isnt in the market for an SUV so no question of him putting his money where his mouth is. As for his friend, there is bound to be a reasonable price difference between a Safari LX and an Aria.

Tata may only be 13 years old, but don't count me to be one of their guinea pigs.
No one is asking you to.

I am saying all this not out of sarcasm, but out of genuine concern for the Tata group. Mr. Ratan Tata has turned the Tata group more or less into a one-trick pony by focusing so much on Tata Motors.
What about TCS, Tata Steel, Tata Power and the list goes on.....

I was expecting so more from the Aria (and I don't mean features). In fact I was in the market for an Innova earlier and knowing how overpriced the Innova was, I was hoping that Aria 2WD would smoke the Innova with better quality at a similar or better price point.
How can you say from now its not a quality product. Its been tested for about 4 years all over the world in all conditions. Its also mentioned the interior quality has gone up by leaps and bounds and is ahead of the competition.
The Aria also offers many more features than its competitors.

I am not saying to Tata -- be cheap -- all I am saying is show me a quality product at, if nothing at all, the same price as your competitors. I just don't see that yet.
Im not a big fan of Tata cars. I own an Innova, and let me tell you its nothing exceptional besides reliability and handling (for an MUV). Yes space also.
Replies in bold.

Lets give credit where due.

Last edited by Akshay1234 : 14th August 2010 at 00:40.
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Old 14th August 2010, 01:03   #113
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Originally Posted by nowwhat? View Post
To me, the very fact that flyingspur failed to notice the behemoth standing outside when he walked into the showroom spoke volumes.

If that doesn't demonstrate that this is a Safari in an Indica skin, then what does?
With all due respect, it demonstrates that you are confined by your pre-conceived notions of Tata, as well as making assumptions about someone who have never met nor have any sort of clue about.

I don't know why I'm justifying this in reply to a post like that, but anyway...

The car was parked in front of the showroom, while I entered through the back entrance. And moment I entered, the first thing that caught my eye was the Fiat 500 on display. That was till my cousin reminded me what we were there for, and I immediately shifted attention to the greenish-coloured Safari LX on display.

I'm profusely apologetic for not noticing the car parked up front.

Quote:
The rest of his review was a blur even though he says he will buy it. I will say -- Let him put his money where his mouth is and then I will decide.
We bought an Indica DLE from the first batch ever, and it served us well even though it gave problems, major problems, and had quality issues.

We went on to buy an Indica DLS V2 (first clear-lens facelift) which has clocked 70,000 km in the 4 years of ownership. Again, largely trouble-free except for the noise. It's only now beginning to give is some slight issues.

And we're now considering picking up a Manza to replace the Indica.

Tata has improved by leaps and bounds. And I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

Quote:
I just don't see that yet.
But... you HAVEN'T seen it at all !! Everyone on the forum says this and believes in it : "Buy only what YOU like, don't go by someone's review" So you're entitled to your opinion, but I request you to refrain from making sweeping statements.

Quote:
Why not? If JLR belongs to them, what's stopping Tata from getting a few designers over to India not to copy but to improve the designs? In the process if they duplicate some JLR features/ parts/ designs and increase the bread and butter Tata business, what's wrong?
Every deal has it's own structure and clauses. Everything is not the same as the Maruti-Suzuki arrangement.

I do not want to get into any arguments as such. All I want to state - and this I genuinely believe could happen - is that the Aria, whether a successful product in it's own right, opens the possibility of the maybe next Safari being awesome, maybe the next Indica / Vista equalling or surpassing it's competitors in quality etc. It's a step forward for Tata. Please acknowledge that.
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Old 14th August 2010, 02:20   #114
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Nice review flyingspur but I feel, no offence meant, you were being a little too harsh in the review , atleast in the tone , I somehow feel Tata's just become everyone's favourite whipping boy. I have seen for long that many of our esteemed members just tend to expect the moon from every Tata product, but are ready to live with less than perfect stuff from other manufacturers. I have seen people shelling out 19L OTR for a tucson and the likes, so I would treat most of the comments with a sack of salt. I could feel the general tenor was somewhat disparaging.Sorry to be direct, but just how I feel.

That aside, I feel that TML has really worked hard on this one. I would'nt compare it with Innova. So long as it has practically high GC and handles well given it's height, I would be ok with calling it an SUV/Crossover. Just put a couple of seats behind and then it becomes a people mover, just because
people love Innovas in India.The dead pedal thing is bad, but otherwise I think the features are just top class.Tata has definitely used lots of feedback from JLR on this.

I think most of the comments are just made just like that without any consideration or merits. I do respect the opinions, but some are just so plain ignorant or just off the cuff I cannot but point out.I really hate it when someone disparages a product that we know is well tested. I mean, do you want a full featured range rover at 10 lakhs? TML has to think of its shareholders and make money as well. Customers are kings, but then opinions given just like that are best ignored.I am not a TATA fan or anything like that, but bias is ugly.very ugly.

I hope the remainder of this thread remains sane.As for the review, it was clearly written from a perspective of someone who drives a 320d, and is bound to feel the difference.Can someone talk about the Endy's rather ineffective third row - don't tell me that's not expected just because the Endy's an SUV.
Tata hopes to kill multiple birds with one stone with this. I hope it sure succeeds and that it gets the pricing right. Because it has to change opinions of many a naysayer.

Disclaimer - please don't flame me. I wanted to just keep this thread constructive. Like everyone else has said, these are my opinons only which I stand by. If you don't agree, we can agree to disagree. But let's please refrain from needless criticism and irresponsible comments.

Last edited by rpmx1000 : 14th August 2010 at 02:28.
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Old 14th August 2010, 08:15   #115
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@flyingspur, nice review. Did you notice the tyre profile of the test car? Alloys, as part of standard, is sure upping the ante.
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Old 14th August 2010, 09:12   #116
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Also came across this post, the pic of the Aria here looks pretty good.
Tata Aria SUV Review - Tata Aria Pictures
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Old 14th August 2010, 11:19   #117
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Originally Posted by kavesh55 View Post
..
The pricing if in the 13-15 lakh range would be a winner. Just for information, a friend of mine who is looking for a SUV/MUV was opting for a Fortuner as the Innova has generated a tourist taxi imagery. He did not trust the reliablity of the Safari. Guess many others like him have got a option.
I have a feeling Tata may be able to price it between 12 to 15 Lakh. With a slight price correction in the SAFARI it could just be that where Safari top end model ends the Aria base model will start.
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Old 14th August 2010, 11:34   #118
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Originally Posted by rpmx1000 View Post
Nice review flyingspur but I feel, no offence meant, you were being a little too harsh in the review , atleast in the tone , I somehow feel Tata's just become everyone's favourite whipping boy. I have seen for long that many of our esteemed members just tend to expect the moon from every Tata product, but are ready to live with less than perfect stuff from other manufacturers.
Rpmx, I have attempted to cover even the minutest thing that came to my mind during the TD. This is not with the attempt to put Tata down at all, in fact I am all praise for Tata's effort despite a couple of flaws that would have been potential deal-breakers for me. My attempt is only in trying to align my driving impressions with the quality stuff that we are accustomed to - with GTO's in-depth reviews. Nowhere was my intention to put down Tata in any way, heck - I even said I might have bought one if in the market for one !

Quote:
I have seen people shelling out 19L OTR for a tucson and the likes, so I would treat most of the comments with a sack of salt.
I completely agree. I could never digest a 19.73 L OTR Mumbai price tag for the Tucson, though I loved the vehicle. But then, hasn't the market responded? The vehicle hardly sold, any which way you look at it. I've said that as long as the Aria's priced well, I expect it to sell well. Now that's not being harsh, or making Tata the whipping boy, innit?

Quote:
That aside, I feel that TML has really worked hard on this one. I would'nt compare it with Innova. So long as it has practically high GC and handles well given it's height, I would be ok with calling it an SUV/Crossover.
With the first statement, I've said this so many times in my review, so I agree with you. But - and I repeat - let's not kid ourselves here, the Aria is an MUV and not an SUV. In India these cars are called SUVs, I don't think it's right.

Quote:
I think most of the comments are just made just like that without any consideration or merits. I do respect the opinions, but some are just so plain ignorant or just off the cuff I cannot but point out.
My comments?

Quote:
...but bias is ugly.very ugly.
I know. I'm a Tata owner, and have highlighted this to someone just a few posts ago.

Quote:
As for the review, it was clearly written from a perspective of someone who drives a 320d
Now this is something I would have to strongly disagree with. In the entire thread, expect for the part where I was asked about estimating the 0-100 figures, I have not brought up even a reference to the 320d. And why would I?

What comparisons did I draw, and what limitations of the Aria did I highlight w.r.t. the 3? I don't even know on what basis I would compare the two, the thought itself is ridiculous. The Aria cannot hold a candle to the 3 in terms of interior quality & fit / finish, while the Aria would humiliate the 3 in terms of interior space. They're so far removed from each other, I don't know where I've compared the two even by mistake.

Quote:
Disclaimer - please don't flame me. I wanted to just keep this thread constructive. Like everyone else has said, these are my opinons only which I stand by. If you don't agree, we can agree to disagree. But let's please refrain from needless criticism and irresponsible comments.
Of course I am clarifying my perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
@flyingspur, nice review. Did you notice the tyre profile of the test car? Alloys, as part of standard, is sure upping the ante.
Sorry, don't quite remember... another limitation of my unexpected review.

Last edited by FlyingSpur : 14th August 2010 at 11:39.
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Old 14th August 2010, 12:39   #119
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Originally Posted by nowwhat? View Post
Why not? If JLR belongs to them, what's stopping Tata from getting a few designers over to India not to copy but to improve the designs? In the process if they duplicate some JLR features/ parts/ designs and increase the bread and butter Tata business, what's wrong?
Are you not following the other Aria thread from the Auto-Expo onwards? Did you not notice the new Dash and Euro style headlight switch? It is one thing to carry over ideas, but quite another to expect them to do is re-badge a Land Rover as a Safari or Jag as an Indigo. And then price them at the Safari/Indigo range.

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
Lets give credit where due.
+1
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Old 14th August 2010, 13:00   #120
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Another question. Did it have overhead storage like these, many in a row?
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