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Old 7th October 2010, 21:22   #16
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Any one selling a car in India should understand the requirements and habits of Indian motoring people. Reasons like with nuclear families and all that are misplaced. One reason offered at the beginning of the entry of foreign brands ( 95 - 96) and which some still do is that even the "entry level sedans" like the City, Fiesta etc are self-driven in Europe/US, in India they were chauffeur-driven and as they are originally designed for the European / US markets the Indian consumer should adjust accordingly.

May be off-topic, but do not some cars still sport wiper switch stalk on right and the indicator stalk on left?

There has been some discussion on the difference of quality of seat belts in India specific cars and that of exported cars (not in the forum) some time ago.
Apart from the rear leg room, the ease of ingress and egress is also very important.

Indica with all its faults is still a very good family car in terms of space, economy and convenience.
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Old 7th October 2010, 23:53   #17
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I truly agree with most of the manufacturers dont give importance to leg room. Including Maruti who have been with Indian consumer for over 25years have failed to address this issue.

I am 6ft 3inch and my father is 6ft, first thing I always see in a car is leg room, because my father sits at the rear seat while I am driving and most of the time we meet together fora long drive. This is the main reason we have not parted away with our 9yr old Indica.
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Old 8th October 2010, 00:16   #18
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In terms of human ergonomics, there is one aspect to consider. If you are seated higher (upright like a chair), you need less legroom for comfort. If you are seated lower (like a sofa), you need more legroom for a similar degree of comfort.

Before comparing the legroom based on only the dimensions of the space between the rear and front seats, one should also consider the height of the rear seat. It should be a combination of factors.
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Old 11th October 2010, 11:59   #19
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Hi,

I understand but the manufacturers need to do it as per the antropometry , thye need to provide the space as per the higher or lower seating , they have to also consider that anybody seating for longer than 2 hours will most certailny require to streach a bit

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In terms of human ergonomics, there is one aspect to consider. If you are seated higher (upright like a chair), you need less legroom for comfort. If you are seated lower (like a sofa), you need more legroom for a similar degree of comfort.

Before comparing the legroom based on only the dimensions of the space between the rear and front seats, one should also consider the height of the rear seat. It should be a combination of factors.
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Old 11th October 2010, 12:22   #20
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The Figo is a very good example of space optimization. It seems to have hit the sweet spot w.r.t. wheelbase, rear seat and boot space. It is also quite compact (at 3795 mm). Having been designed for the Indian market, it has got interior space at the top of its priority list.
It's ironic that the thread started with a negative view on the Fiesta and the same dimensions on a Figo seem fine to us! (The Figo is essentially a Fiesta without a boot - just smartly done unlike swift/dzire or indica/indigo) It's almost like the space is ok as long it doesnt have a boot and if it has a boot, the space should be even more!
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Old 11th October 2010, 12:53   #21
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Another aspect that we should consider is the width of the seat. We should not look at leg room in isolation. Many manufacturers compromise on thigh support to show a much better leg room.
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Old 11th October 2010, 13:14   #22
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Originally Posted by ananth_iy View Post
Another aspect that we should consider is the width of the seat. We should not look at leg room in isolation. Many manufacturers compromise on thigh support to show a much better leg room.
Good point! From personal experience - The Indica's seat depth is shorter than a palio. Although, overall the Indica has more leg space, for people about 5'4" (in this case, my mother!) the Palio feels more comfortable with a better incline and thigh support.
Again, from personal experience, the Palio front seat offers better thigh support to me (I'm 6'2") than my Fiesta. The issue is again same of seat depth.

Last edited by viper_711 : 11th October 2010 at 13:16.
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Old 20th October 2010, 12:29   #23
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Hi Viper ,

Oh is it ? I was not aware of this , I have not expereinced Figo yet , I am a Ford fan , I also have Ikon , sadly I find the rear bench better than Fiesta in Ikon , do not know the tech reasons. Personally I think with or without the boot the leg room in almost all the cars could be better.

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Originally Posted by viper_711 View Post
It's ironic that the thread started with a negative view on the Fiesta and the same dimensions on a Figo seem fine to us! (The Figo is essentially a Fiesta without a boot - just smartly done unlike swift/dzire or indica/indigo) It's almost like the space is ok as long it doesnt have a boot and if it has a boot, the space should be even more!
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Old 20th October 2010, 13:10   #24
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I find only 20% of the cars having people in the rear seat these days. May be thats why Many consider boot space and front seat comfort more important than rear seat legroom unless its purely chauffeur driven.
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Old 21st October 2010, 11:26   #25
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Tata's cars are definitely the most spacious in their respective segments. Mahindra, surprisingly, does a poor job in packaging its interiors despite building "made-for-India" cars. Look at the Scorpio, even the driver seat isn't something I'd call spacious!

European cars generally focus on build, safety & dynamics, but completely ignore rear bench space (thanks to their usage patterns). Consider the long list of European cars that offer sub-par rear bench room (relative to their segments):

VW Polo
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Skoda Octavia
Skoda Laura
Fiat Punto
Fiat Linea
Mercedes C Class
BMW 320d

The backseats of all of these cars are significantly more cramped, when compared to direct competition. Or in some cases, even a segment below. The Skoda Superb and VW Vento (not even sold in proper Europe) are a handful of exceptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper_711 View Post
It's ironic that the thread started with a negative view on the Fiesta and the same dimensions on a Figo seem fine to us!
Reason being, expectations from a 4 lakh rupee hatchback are lower than that for a 7 lakh rupee sedan.
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Old 21st October 2010, 11:34   #26
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
European cars generally focus on build, safety & dynamics, but completely ignore rear bench space (thanks to their usage patterns). Consider the long list of European cars that offer sub-par rear bench room (relative to their segments):

VW Polo
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Skoda Octavia
Skoda Laura
Fiat Punto
Fiat Linea
Mercedes C Class
BMW 320d
Add to that list the Audi A4....for its size advantage on the outside ( into passat , old E-class territory) the rear seat though very comfortable for the back, is strictly average as far as legroom is concerned. For someone like me, with a broad built and at 6 ft 1, something like a Mumbai-Kolhapur drive (400kms) in an A4 would be extremely comforting for the back but a big pain for the legs.
Comparing the Civic and A4 back to back, i would say both of them have equal room at the rear (I AM SERIOUS) which makes the civic extremely spacious for its size and the A4, average. It would have an advantage over the C,3 because of the longer wheelbase

Last edited by PlatzdaTurbo : 21st October 2010 at 11:36.
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Old 21st October 2010, 11:48   #27
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Out here you guys are discussing rear legroom, and I face a difficult time getting into the front seat of the car!
Seriously, at 6'2", I have a difficult time in many European cars such as the VW Line up (I have to move my seat all the way behind so that my knees don't hit the steering and dash), Skoda, and even the E60 BMW 5 series (A little bit less travel and we would have a problem - The seat is quite literally pushed all the way behind!).
In fact, even though we have various cars in the household, I still use the fiesta due to the front seat travel. The Skoda Octavia is near impossible for 4 adults (between 5'5" - 6'2") to sit comfortably!

About the rear legroom, I remember reading about how some manufacturers reduce the travel of the front seat, to increase the rear seat space! IIRC, I remember Skoda did this with the Octavia (which has resulted in me not being able to drive one on a long drive).
Similarly, we should also keep the height of the floor in mind. In the case of the Endeavour, there is acres of legroom, but at the same time, the high floor is one reason many buyers are staying away.

On the other hand, some brands have been superb in this regard. Remember the scooped-in dash of the Ikon? What about the tremendous front seat travel in the Fiesta?
Even the Fiat's were quite good in this regard (though it has been a long time since I have driven one of their cars).

I feel that the brand and originating country have a lot to do with this. For examples, Americans and Japanese like big cars. American cars are huge, but not very spacious. Japanese cars are smaller, but a lot more spacious!
Similarly, European cars are generally built for more enthusiastic drivers, so there is limited rear seat room, but it is more than made up by the superb handling and driver focus these cars offer.
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Old 21st October 2010, 12:04   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

European cars generally focus on build, safety & dynamics, but completely ignore rear bench space (thanks to their usage patterns). Consider the long list of European cars that offer sub-par rear bench room (relative to their segments):


VW Jetta
VW Passat
Skoda Octavia
Skoda Laura
Fiat Punto
Fiat Linea
Mercedes C Class
BMW 320d

The backseats of all of these cars are significantly more cramped, when compared to direct competition. Or in some cases, even a segment below. The Skoda Superb and VW Vento (not even sold in proper Europe) are a handful of exceptions.
>>>

I am a little surprised to find the VWs highlighted above, in this list.
The Jetta is designed primarily for the US market, where seating space and comfort are accorded higher priority as compared to Europe. Incidentally the Jetta is sold as a 'small family car' in the US.

Personally I find nothing wrong with the rear seat space and comfort in the Jetta. During my test drives with the Jetta, the Altis and the Civic, I had my mother and wife seated at the rear for half an hour long rides over the benighted Andheri-Kurla Road in suburban Bombay.

My mother chose the Jetta over the other two w.r.t the subject under discussion, apart from other capabilities that the Jetta scored well over its rivals.

Overall, I see the issue of rear seat space thus ( to re-iterate and add to what I said in my earlier post):

> European and other car manufacturers have a steep learning curve to design ( and not adapt) their offerings for Indian conditions, now that India is a major growth market. This includes rear seat space, ground clearance, rugged and strong airconditioning, optimal engine performance when running with poor fuel quality, reliability of components ( proper ahem, 'tropicalisation')

> The expectation levels of Indian consumers, who are if I may say so, the most demanding in the whole world ( where else would you find the expectation level of Nano's comfort levels and performance compared to cars one or two segments higher)

We are seeing the results of the (partial) effect of the growth markets already : BMW is designing front wheel drive models, displacements are progressively coming down,premium marques have introduced long wheelbase versions in China and so on.

Additionally, there will be 'a period of adjustments', for want of a better term, between the cost per unit of producing a car for Indian conditions vis-vis the price expectation of potential Indian buyers, that the manufacturers have to figure out to arrive at a price which will result in win-win for both. And this will be right across the board, from the humble but effective Nano, through the i10s, the Figos, the Citys, the Altises, and beyond into RR territory.

We live in exciting times.

Regards, be driven safe

Last edited by issigonis : 21st October 2010 at 12:10. Reason: Made additions
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Old 30th December 2010, 23:12   #29
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Default Re: why rear bench leg room is always compromised ?

Guys,
The Indicas do have good legspace, but the dash is high mounted and car driver's view of the car nose is extremely poor.

The Skoda cars have poor legspace, but the dash is low mounted and the driver has excellent view of the nose.

SO POSSIBLY THE HIGHER DASH OF THE INDICA LIBERATES MORE LEG SPACE ?
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Old 31st December 2010, 08:32   #30
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Lightbulb Go the new WagonR way!

I love the way MSIL has liberated more leg room at the rear for the new WagonR, at the expense of the boot. The new WagonR has 60/40 split rear seats even for the lower variants. I for one, prefer more space in the cabin than the boot, as its not everyday that I run out of boot space in the car. Agreed, one would need to plan better for those days when we need more boot space. But I prefer more cabin space to boot space in a hatchback.

On the other hand, it's awkward, looking at the boot/ rear bench base of the Punto, old Estilo etc. The rear bench has been pushed forward to give a better volume reading for the boot. This just doesn't liberate enough usable space in the boot and eats up the much needed rear legroom too.
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