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Old 13th October 2013, 12:49   #391
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Default Re: PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!

Just saw this video on Youtube. Flatbed tow truck in action. Quite scary I must say. Looks like this flatbed tow truck belongs to the same fleet that towed the Octavia 2013 in the above post.


Last edited by Warwithwheels : 13th October 2013 at 13:00.
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Old 13th October 2013, 13:20   #392
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Default Re: PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
You'd be surprised to know how many 20 lakh, 40 lakh, 60 lakh and 1 crore cars feature in this thread!

Coming to think of it, it may be a matter of prestige to use the services of a tow truck..... "my car is so complex and expensive you see"
Just like modern fighter jets most of the cost of high end cars is in the gizmos and electronics rather than in the mechanicals which make the car more long lasting. Rolls Royce's claim to fame was its ruggedness, reliability and then luxury. Today the position is reversed it is luxury, ruggedness and reliability comes last.

The reason most of them are taken on flat bed trucks is that in most cases towing them would result in expensive damage.
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Old 13th October 2013, 13:55   #393
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Default Re: PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Coming to think of it, it may be a matter of prestige to use the services of a tow truck..... "my car is so complex and expensive you see"
I agree. I would prefer my German VW is towed on a flatbed truck than by a Ford Fiesta like this case

Saw this in my office last week.

PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!-20131007_122648.jpg
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Old 16th October 2013, 18:54   #394
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An ikon about to get loaded onto a flat bed at kemps corner in Mumbai.


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Old 18th October 2013, 03:40   #395
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Default Re: PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!

I spotted a VW Polo TDI on the top of a flatbed truck at the Andheri(W) Fire Station Petrol pump at around 9.00pm yesterday evening when I was tanking up my car. I didn't take a picture of it as I was at the Petrol pump. The car was brand new Polo(I assume so as the seat plastic covers were still there. The strange part was the car was shorn with a EU numberplate with a German and EU symbol on it. I walked around the car and there were no GTD batches, just the good old TDI badge. The car was RHD.
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Old 23rd October 2013, 08:02   #396
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Default Re: PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!

I was rather surprised to see a Honda on a flatbed yesterday near Whitefield . Surprising but true. Looks like this is the first casualty on this thread for Honda's i-DTEC diesel series. Spoke to the driver when I pulled up alongside the truck, who said this was a broken down vehicle.

Amaze iDTEC on a flatbed truck
PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!-wp_20131022_002.jpg
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Old 23rd October 2013, 08:59   #397
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Default Re: PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!

From my friend Sahil Borole's FB page.
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PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!-1380789_596337813756891_1090383548_n.jpg  

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Old 23rd October 2013, 15:15   #398
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Default Re: PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!

Guys, I totally agree to disagree that European Cars are highly unreliable as compared to their Japanese counterparts. No matter what Honda, Toyota, Nissan or Suzuki does, they simply won't be able to match up the technological advancements by their European Counterparts. Let's not forget, half of the world uses Fiat's multi-jet engine. Well, its European.

Now, coming to why do we find less of Japanese and Koreans cars stalled on roads (Well i think it is a perception, just because they are cheaper products, we don't bother to click their snaps) Japan or Korea, had similar economic conditions like India prevalent after Independence/World War II. It is due to their concentrated efforts in last 67 years, they have developed themselves into "developed nation" from "developing nation"

They had similar infrastructure issues like what we have now in the 60's and better part of 70's. So they know exactly what to expect from Indian road conditions as well as climatic conditions here, including the way We drive.

Coming back to the Europeans, they always were economically better than rest of the world, well educated and determined. So the first thing Europeans after freeing other countries from their hold was to build a better connectivity road or rail within their countries, so as to allow their Industrialization to go to the next level. They focused a lot of technological advancements, by pumping in the money on R&D

Secondly, Europe has dramatically different climatic conditions as opposed to Asian countries. So their vehicles would obviously be in sync with their topography, which includes temperature, road conditions, etc and hence may have higher stalling issues in countries with different driving conditions. So no wonder, we can have higher stalling issues from our German/European cars.

Assume tomorrow, if we decide to go and settle in Europe, we definitely would feel uncomfortable till the time we adjust to the conditions there.

Similarly, we can't expect BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc to make cars very very specific to the Indian Driving Conditions to the tee... Its like telling them to reduce their Quality Standards to match up with our hopeless quality standards.

Thirdly, Most of the Engine Failure issues eventually boil down to the quality of Fuel in India, My question is instead of doubting the quality of Germans/Europeans, why can't we question our Petroleum Officials on the Low Fuel Quality? Why can't we challenge the NHAI for the quality of roads they are building?
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Old 23rd October 2013, 15:38   #399
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Default Re: PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!

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Originally Posted by sawnilrules View Post
Guys, I totally agree to disagree that European Cars are highly unreliable as compared to their Japanese counterparts. No matter what Honda, Toyota, Nissan or Suzuki does, they simply won't be able to match up the technological advancements by their European Counterparts. Let's not forget, half of the world uses Fiat's multi-jet engine. Well, its European.

Now, coming to why do we find less of Japanese and Koreans cars stalled on roads (Well i think it is a perception, just because they are cheaper products, we don't bother to click their snaps) Japan or Korea, had similar economic conditions like India prevalent after Independence/World War II. It is due to their concentrated efforts in last 67 years, they have developed themselves into "developed nation" from "developing nation"

They had similar infrastructure issues like what we have now in the 60's and better part of 70's. So they know exactly what to expect from Indian road conditions as well as climatic conditions here, including the way We drive.

Coming back to the Europeans, they always were economically better than rest of the world, well educated and determined. So the first thing Europeans after freeing other countries from their hold was to build a better connectivity road or rail within their countries, so as to allow their Industrialization to go to the next level. They focused a lot of technological advancements, by pumping in the money on R&D

Secondly, Europe has dramatically different climatic conditions as opposed to Asian countries. So their vehicles would obviously be in sync with their topography, which includes temperature, road conditions, etc and hence may have higher stalling issues in countries with different driving conditions. So no wonder, we can have higher stalling issues from our German/European cars.

Assume tomorrow, if we decide to go and settle in Europe, we definitely would feel uncomfortable till the time we adjust to the conditions there.

Similarly, we can't expect BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc to make cars very very specific to the Indian Driving Conditions to the tee... Its like telling them to reduce their Quality Standards to match up with our hopeless quality standards.

Thirdly, Most of the Engine Failure issues eventually boil down to the quality of Fuel in India, My question is instead of doubting the quality of Germans/Europeans, why can't we question our Petroleum Officials on the Low Fuel Quality? Why can't we challenge the NHAI for the quality of roads they are building?
1. Japan was a well established Industrial nation since the early 20th century. WW2 did destroy their infrastructure and lead to credit crunch but the ideas practices still remained with the people, and they did rebuild themselves like any other industrial nation would. Japan/Korea has been far ahead of India since the late medieval/colonial ages.

2. Japanese business houses have always been known for their discipline, commitment and QC. For instance The QR code that is common these days was first used by Toyota to keep a tab on production/parts inventory. Japanese cars are much more reliable than the European counterparts, this is not opinion but fact.

3. European models have a history of issues/niggles in North America as well, conditions similar to Europe. So the whole Indian climatology is out of the window. A big reason for this is the electronics/innovation that they apply to their products.
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Old 23rd October 2013, 15:46   #400
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When you sell a product in the market, you need to understand what the market demands.

It is impossible for you to align the market conditions to your product.

I would anyday prefer to buy a car that could run well on my roads rather than the changing roads itself.

And there seems to be a serious disconnect from the ground reality in your post.

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Old 23rd October 2013, 16:20   #401
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Default Re: PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!

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Originally Posted by sawnilrules View Post
Guys, I totally agree to disagree that European Cars are highly unreliable as compared to their Japanese counterparts.
...
challenge the NHAI for the quality of roads they are building?
Technological advancement is not an excuse for unreliability, a car is a form of transport, it isn't meant to be a passenger on a tow truck. The Fiat operation in India would have been toast if not for Suzuki actually selling cars with the engine from Fiat. The Jap diesels are on their way and are just as good, its only a matter of time before they beat the Europeans at this. Honda, Toyota and Nissan do make some fantastic diesels.

The current generation of R&D personnel won't have much experience with bad infrastructure, that is no excuse. A Honda Civic works in Japan, India, US and EU with similar reliability levels and completely different usage patterns, an average euro car breaks down more frequently in all these countries, infrastructure not withstanding. Topography is a sad excuse for unreliability.Japan has a different climate, but all their cars seem to cope well with high humidity, heat and dust without throwing a fit.

Merc gets better ground clearance for its Indian models, a reasonable modification, the Euro brands claim to make better cars, hence they should be more reliable, but endless maintenance is hardly a good direction for technologicaly advancement.

The Toyotas run on the same fuel without missing a beat, the NHAI roads are about as good as it gets, unreliability is an outcome bad integration. The Lexus brand is an example of reliability with luxury and high tech, so Europeans don't own the farm when it comes to luxury, but their PR is ahead of the japs. The DSG issues on a VW group brand has nothing to do with fuel quality, and automatics are meant for stop and go traffic, the gearbox seems to be terrific at everything but urban traffic snarls. A reliable horn wouldn't be too much to ask, but even that is above and beyond for these advanced types, heck the Punto horn gives up every now and then.

Recently someone posted on how people with 2 or more Mercs(or similar) end up putting 10 times as much mileage on their Fortuners because they don't trust the car with a long trip. This is not a perception of unreliability, the owners must have the pain of bad experiences to explain their seemingly odd behaviour.
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Old 23rd October 2013, 20:22   #402
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Default Re: PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!

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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
I was rather surprised to see a Honda on a flatbed yesterday near Whitefield . Surprising but true. Looks like this is the first casualty on this thread for Honda's i-DTEC diesel series. Spoke to the driver when I pulled up alongside the truck, who said this was a broken down vehicle.
That is a very surprising sight indeed - a car of Japanese make, a Honda at that, being moved in the manner that has almost become the exclusive preserve of the flatbed-loving horde streaming out of Germania.

As it has been confirmed that it's on the flatbed because it broke down (and not because of other reasons), Honda engineers must take this issue very seriously. Another BHP-ian mentioned that he witnessed the Amaze diesel of his neighbour (or someone else) being towed away because the engine failed to start (and it wasn't the battery). The 1.5 lit. EarthDreams diesel is known to be an unconventional engine design in some aspects. What's more, Honda have decided to use some very low viscosity oil in it.

I don't know what's responsible for this breakdown, but I hope Honda get to the bottom of this soon enough. If it's the ultra low viscosity oil, then they better change it to a conventional one. A km or two less on the ARAI figure means almost nothing in the real world for the customer (Honda only stands to lose some petty bragging rights). It's a million times better than tarnishing their hard-earned & well-deserved reputation for bullet-proof reliability and solid engineering.

If it's the unconventional engine design itself (for a common rail turbo diesel), with its all aluminium open deck block, light weight connecting rods, crankshaft and other weight and friction saving measures that's responsible for the very un-Japanese early engine breakdowns, then Honda better change the design/construction of whatever parts are failing so soon, before diesel Honda Amazes on flatbeds become a common sight

When a customer buys a Honda (or any Japanese automobile brand for that matter), he/she expects it to always start at the twist of the key/press of the button, fire on all cylinders and keep running without complaint, come day or night, rain or shine, heat or cold, light or darkness, smooth expressway or dusty cratered village road - as long as there is fuel in the tank, oil in the engine and air in the tyres.

Flatbeds and tow-trucks? Honda, please ensure your cars avoid them like the plague. It's decades of doing so throughout the world (including the most God-forsaken places on Earth - Afghanistan, Somalia, Congo, Sahara etc. etc.) that has made Japanese cars earn the well-deserved tag of being the most reliable and solidly engineered pieces of mobile machinery of the 21st century.

Last edited by RSR : 23rd October 2013 at 20:29.
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Old 23rd October 2013, 20:29   #403
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Default Re: PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!

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From my friend Sahil Borole's FB page.
This car was for display at Big Boys Toyz stall at the Autocar Performance Show.
http://bigboytoyz.in/inventory/used-...dena-spider-3/
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Old 23rd October 2013, 20:37   #404
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Default Re: PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!

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Originally Posted by sawnilrules View Post
Guys, I totally agree to disagree that European Cars are highly unreliable as compared to their Japanese counterparts........

Now, coming to why do we find less of Japanese and Koreans cars stalled on roads .......
Thirdly, Most of the Engine Failure issues eventually boil down to the quality of Fuel in India, My question is instead of doubting the quality of Germans/Europeans, why can't we question our Petroleum Officials on the Low Fuel Quality? Why can't we challenge the NHAI for the quality of roads they are building?
I find the argument lame.
European cars were excellent as long as they were purely mechanical. The Older Mercedes and the Rolls Royce were always perceived as super reliable cars. It was only when the European manufacturers started to cut costs (and corners?) to compete with the Japanese that their troubles started. Add to that unreliable electronics and you have a recipe for disaster.

If you had bothered to go through International Mercedes/BMW/Audi forums their owners face as many problems as we do. Please do not forget that US has as much diversity in climate as does India, and they do have a lot of dirt roads, rickety bridges and what not.

Blaming climate, fuel and driving style for failure of your produce shows that either you are not serious about the market or you are arrogant to the extend of spoiling your market.

Most of the market for super premium automobiles is for those who want to make a statement - I can afford to buy and maintain this, in fact I can afford to have many of these. It has nothing to do with reliability of VFM in fact it is just the opposite.
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Old 23rd October 2013, 21:09   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
I was rather surprised to see a Honda on a flatbed yesterday near Whitefield . Surprising but true. Looks like this is the first casualty on this thread for Honda's i-DTEC diesel series. Spoke to the driver when I pulled up alongside the truck, who said this was a broken down vehicle. Amaze iDTEC on a flatbed truck
Honda of a flat bed ...Amaze(ing ). They really need to figure out as to what went wrong?hope it's not the low viscosity oil that they are using. Never seen a new Honda break down.
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