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Old 8th December 2005, 14:20   #1
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Thumbs down Autocop and such similar products are of limited use!

I had a bizzare experience yesterday. I left my car at home. It was parked inside the house with the main entrance locked. There was no one at home. Mine is an independent house in a pretty safe locality. The car had its central locking armed. My car has a Fort Knox security system installed covering all the doors, hatch and the bonnet alongwith stereo protection.

When I reached home at night I was shocked to see that the driver side door was ajar! I immediately jumped in expecting to see the stereo gone. To my relief the thief had not touched it, though I am sure he came for it, as he found out that the front panel was missing. Although the car was safely parked in the driveway of my locked house I still removed the face plate of my car stereo (I am still not sure why but it saved the system).

The amazing thing is that no one living in the vicinity even realized this when it happened. A courier guy came to deliver my mobile bill (it was stuck on the doorway) and the meter-reader came to deliver the electricity bill.

Initially I was a bit confused as to
  • how he managed to open the armed security system as there is no sign of any forced entry nor did the beeper went off!
  • why he bothered to open the door as the sun film is of light colored and one can see from outside that the face plate is missing.
  • why he left the door ajar while leaving.
Of course I could piece together a few things once I thought about it. The guy probably had one of those frequency hunting systems to beat electronic locks. He did not enter the house immediately as I reckon these types of devices will take some time to find the right frequency to open the lock. As my neighbourhood is otherwise pretty vigilant he probably stayed outside on the road and let the device do its work. Once the door opened (the khatt sound lets u know) he entered the house (most probably used the old small side entrance) and then on opening realized that the face plate is missing. While leaving he left the door ajar as the thud of the closing door and the sound the security system makes would have been a risk for him.

Although shaken I also realized that these security systems are of limited use if an opportune thief can also open it so easily. My car hardly ever remains at home. So the guy could have only accidentally discovered a car parked inside a locked house rather than it being any pre-planned attempt.

Now I am certainly going to look for a sturdy gear lock. My bro-in-law says that there is an Israeli variety which sells costlier but is difficult to saw through as the metal is of a higher grade. Any ideas ppl? He says its easily available in Delhi though I found most accessory shops have no clue about a gear lock. Any one of us here knows where I can find such stuff in Hyderabad?

Also, do you people think that I should take the car for a check of the security system to the installer? I found that it is working perfectly as earlier.
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Old 8th December 2005, 14:24   #2
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hmm.. This topic has been discussed before.. i suggest mods to move the topic..
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Old 8th December 2005, 14:27   #3
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Gear locks are of little use against a professional auto thief. In England various consumer magazines test such locks on a regular basis and most are usually breached within a minute. There are many that claim to be more sturdy but even they last just over a minute in the hands of a determined thief.

You used to be able to buy special scanning devices for car remote central locking. You could hide near a car and grab the frequency etc for the remote. Alarm companies claim their alarms assign random frequencies etc. These claims may look good on paper but the reality is that they are just claims and ineffective against a determined thief.
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Old 8th December 2005, 14:31   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman
Gear locks are of little use against a professional auto thief. In England various consumer magazines test such locks on a regular basis and most are usually breached within a minute. There are many that claim to be more sturdy but even they last just over a minute in the hands of a determined thief.

You used to be able to buy special scanning devices for car remote central locking. You could hide near a car and grab the frequency etc for the remote. Alarm companies claim their alarms assign random frequencies etc. These claims may look good on paper but the reality is that they are just claims and ineffective against a determined thief.
Hmmm... Is there no way one can protect his car bought from hard earned money ?????
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Old 8th December 2005, 14:43   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shobhit15
Hmmm... Is there no way one can protect his car bought from hard earned money ?????
Yes... That is of more interest to me. What will be the best way to prevent such incidents? I thought a visible deterrant over and above the regular ones will add another layer of protection. I do not want such a rude shock the second time around. This time it was probably stereo who knows what the next guy will try for! The fact is some "aam-jhaam chor" could so easily disarm the lock!

Anyone has any ideas please?
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Old 8th December 2005, 14:44   #6
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Sorry to hear the incident. BTW, what car was it?
What is Fort Knox security system? I really can't figure out what happened, but I suggest that you check your security system. Does your system can lock/unlock doors remotely? There has been instances where a high calibre security system failed and automatically unlocked all doors in cars!

It's true that such Gear Locks are deterant to casual thieves only. Professional car breakers can virtually break any system!
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Old 8th December 2005, 14:49   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo
Yes... That is of more interest to me. What will be the best way to prevent such incidents? I
Anyone has any ideas please?
One n only one solution here. Keep a dog, an alsatian if possible, and train it to not to trust strangers. Yeah even a dog can be fed sleeping pills etc etc, but this is your best bet.
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Old 8th December 2005, 14:50   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbasak
Sorry to hear the incident. BTW, what car was it?
What is Fort Knox security system? I really can't figure out what happened, but I suggest that you check your security system. Does your system can lock/unlock doors remotely? There has been instances where a high calibre security system failed and automatically unlocked all doors in cars!

It's true that such Gear Locks are deterant to casual thieves only. Professional car breakers can virtually break any system!
Mine is an Indica. Fort Knox is just a brand name, like autocop. Its made in india by Minda in collaboration with Huf of Germany.

No I think it could not fail by itself. It was armed in the morning when I left. Also, the lock may disarm but even the door was ajar. Somebody opened the door of my car :(

Last edited by Zappo : 8th December 2005 at 14:52.
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Old 8th December 2005, 15:26   #9
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Get a security system with disarm facility,
It works like this. you lock the car. Then you press a key combination. This disarms the security system control. i.e. even with your remote you cannot open it if you do not enter the combination. Now different brands have different combinations. For example in vision plus you have to press center key 4 times for this to take place. Usually these freqnency scanners cannot guess such combinations. Since your control center is disarmed you are very much safe.
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Old 8th December 2005, 15:41   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
Get a security system with disarm facility,
It works like this. you lock the car. Then you press a key combination. This disarms the security system control. i.e. even with your remote you cannot open it if you do not enter the combination. Now different brands have different combinations. For example in vision plus you have to press center key 4 times for this to take place. Usually these freqnency scanners cannot guess such combinations. Since your control center is disarmed you are very much safe.
Hmmm... Vision Plus. Who makes it here? And how much will that cost? Are you saying that even with the control center disarmed the control makes its usual noises if tampered with?

Also, since you are from Delhi are you aware of any specific Gear Lock of Israeli make? Supposedly developed due to the security scenario prevalent in that country what with all those car breaks and then using them for attacks...
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Old 8th December 2005, 15:49   #11
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Most good gear locks will prevent car theft. You dont really need israeli ones.
As for Vision+ it costs RS 2800. Its a very basic system.
With the control center disabled, you just cant lock or unlock the car without enabling it again. As for alarms and all, they still work. Unless the theif knows which key combonation enables the control center he cant do anything. All these frequency scanning devices do is mimic the unlock key action. If your unlock key action is disabled, then they cant do much.
Actually high end 2 way systems are the easiest to crack, because in that case your control unit is communicating with your key unit. Its the basic low end security which works best.
But then again, all you need to do is forcibly open the door and quickly yank out the unit from under the dashboard. nobody bothers about 5 seconds of alarm.

So the best security for your car is the manual one, or if you have to park outside a shady place (eg while travelling on highways) take out your ignition relay. I doubt theives will be roaming around with relays and fuses
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Old 8th December 2005, 16:28   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
Most good gear locks will prevent car theft. You dont really need israeli ones.
As for Vision+ it costs RS 2800. Its a very basic system.
With the control center disabled, you just cant lock or unlock the car without enabling it again. As for alarms and all, they still work. Unless the theif knows which key combonation enables the control center he cant do anything. All these frequency scanning devices do is mimic the unlock key action. If your unlock key action is disabled, then they cant do much.
Actually high end 2 way systems are the easiest to crack, because in that case your control unit is communicating with your key unit. Its the basic low end security which works best.
But then again, all you need to do is forcibly open the door and quickly yank out the unit from under the dashboard. nobody bothers about 5 seconds of alarm.

So the best security for your car is the manual one, or if you have to park outside a shady place (eg while travelling on highways) take out your ignition relay. I doubt theives will be roaming around with relays and fuses
Ya. Thieves moving around with relays and fuses, or for that matter with saws to cut through physical gear locks sounds difficult. Meanwhile I think I will extend my good practice of removing the audio face-plate while parking to all the times and will search for a good gear lock.

Hey, by the way will Indica be able to take a gear lock. Recently someone narrated how Autocop people could not fix a gear lock to his car as they could not yank out the gear knob. On a second thought if to take out (reverse of putting in, must be the same) a lock all it takes is to yank out the gear knob how safe such a device is?
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Old 8th December 2005, 16:34   #13
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[SIZE=2]Simple solution:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]remove the steering wheel and leave the dude stumped......a la mr.bean style!!!!(only if you dont want your car to be driven away)what say???[/SIZE]
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Old 8th December 2005, 16:36   #14
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Hmm you need to get everything from Autocop. there are lots of other companies too! I have seen indicas with gear locks, and they seemed to be okay. If you are really worried about gear lock not fitting get the steering lock, its more visible and even bigger detterent

As for Saw and blade, you need to have a welding machine to cut thourgh a gear lock. Ask GTO. Somebody put chewing gum in his gear lock key slot and he had to get a welder
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Old 8th December 2005, 16:54   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj
One n only one solution here. Keep a dog, an alsatian if possible, and train it to not to trust strangers. Yeah even a dog can be fed sleeping pills etc etc, but this is your best bet.
Good idea. I remember a visit to my Junior School by Police many years ago. They had trained their dogs not to accept food from anyone apart from the handler.
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