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Old 14th September 2011, 12:19   #181
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
Well if someone expreeses an opinion against Fiat they become Fiat bashers. The fact of the matter is that despite what the surveys may say, FIAT is losing the contest which really matters, i.e. to convince the buyers to buy their cars.
You need to own one before you make any comments. I have a Palio and a Punto with me. I have never faced any issues with the TASS till now and also both cars have never let me down in the last 4 years. In fact I can confidently take them any where at any time.

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Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
It is not that Fiat has not been given a chance by the market. THe Palio did get good numbers to begin with but Fiat could not build on the initial success. The Linea and the GP did much better when they were laiunched and I was very interested in the GP myself but decided to go in for a Figo.
You exercised your choice of buying a Figo, but that doesn't mean that Linea and Punto are bad cars. No offense meant, but If I go by your logic the the New Ford Fiesta is an utter flop in the market since it failed to gain numbers from the day it was launched.

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Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
THe way things seem to be panning out, it will be MSIL which ultimately helps FIAT survive in India by sourcing Diesel engines from it.

MSIL gets better performance out of the Fiat designed engines than FIAT itself. The Swift and the Ritz are much better in accelration than even the GP 90 BHP.
All I can say is please drive a GP 90BHP before you make tall claims.


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Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
Even Honda which has seen enormous success with the City was taught a lesson by the market when they refused to pay the premium any more. The City is now selling well post the price corrections and I am sure the Jazz and the Brio well do well as long as Honda understand what the Indian customer wants and does not treat them like "third world citizens who have to be told what is good for them".
I think it was Ford who did the "third world citizens" stuff by dumping the old Ford Fiesta in India as "Ford Figo". But the Indian people bought it. It all comes down to how a product is priced.
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Old 14th September 2011, 12:48   #182
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

I dont think there is any point in Fiat owners getting offensive if someone says it is a bad car of sorts.
An auto enthusiast has his own brain to apply before purchasing a car.

It is all personal opinion you cannot change it.
Even Fiat bashers know the ground level reality.

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All I can say is please drive a GP 90BHP before you make tall claims.
.
+100. While coming from Goa to Bangalore on my T-Jet I was faced with a Punto 90hp. I was blown away by the way that guy was keeping up with my speeds. I never lost him, and at times I was following him.

He managed to follow me even at 180 kmph .. I cannot comment if confidence at such high speeds is achievable in other car in that segment.
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Old 14th September 2011, 14:38   #183
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
+100. While coming from Goa to Bangalore on my T-Jet I was faced with a Punto 90hp. I was blown away by the way that guy was keeping up with my speeds. I never lost him, and at times I was following him.
Terribly OT, but have you checked the in-gear acceleration times of the Punto vs T-Jet? Or the torque figures? This is often the reason why a car with slow 0-100 timings can keep up with one that has faster 0-100 kph timings.
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Old 14th September 2011, 15:48   #184
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post



+100. While coming from Goa to Bangalore on my T-Jet I was faced with a Punto 90hp. I was blown away by the way that guy was keeping up with my speeds. I never lost him, and at times I was following him.

He managed to follow me even at 180 kmph .. I cannot comment if confidence at such high speeds is achievable in other car in that segment.
Can you please confirm your return date from Goa? and was it before Chitradurga?
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Old 14th September 2011, 19:35   #185
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
The Swift and the Ritz are much better in accelration than even the GP 90 BHP.
This opinion was formed when GP 90HP was introduced. Tests were done with the new cars. The car is a completely different animal when run in. I was "not very happy" initial few days (expecting more), but now after 7000 kms, it is simply fantastic - pulls wildly in its power band. Ride and handling apart, I have simply become a fan of this engine.
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Old 16th September 2011, 01:36   #186
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
THe way things seem to be panning out, it will be MSIL which ultimately helps FIAT survive in India by sourcing Diesel engines from it.
I think its a win-win situation for both rather than matter of survival for Fiat. Does Suzuki have other diesel engines lined up for their cars? So lets be fair to both the manufacturers.

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Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
Somehow, I get a feeling that the FIAT users have a condesending attitute towards the average Indian car buyer who has a "herd mentality" and cannot make informed decisions. They have a right to hold their opinions and viewpoints but ultimately, "the customer is always right" and MSIL & Hyundai have understood that.
Totally agree with you that "the customer is always right". So are the Fiat customers (or for that matter any other car manufacturer's customers). To each his own. Isn't it?

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Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
Even Honda which has seen enormous success with the City was taught a lesson by the market when they refused to pay the premium any more. The City is now selling well post the price corrections and I am sure the Jazz and the Brio well do well as long as Honda understand what the Indian customer wants and does not treat them like "third world citizens who have to be told what is good for them".
But I believe Fiat has always launched good products in India at a competitive price tag.

Regarding Honda City price cut, the credit goes to Govt Of India for hiking Petrol prices more often than RBI hiked interest rates. I doubt Honda would have dropped the price, if City had a diesel option. Anyway all this Suzuki tuning Fiat engines better, Honda slashing City price etc is in my opinion. So lets stay with the topic.

Opening brand stores is a welcome move by Fiat. But they should focus on opening separate service centers on priority than the brand stores. Based on my experience so far, I think TASS lacks expertise required to handle Fiat cars. They need to have a team of Fiat experts to service Fiats. By experts, I don't mean dedicated Fiat resources, but TASS should cross-train their existing staff at least. They might be doing this already but its not effective enough for sure.

And yes launch Linea with 1.6 MJD please.

Last edited by Rock 'n' rollz : 16th September 2011 at 01:42.
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Old 16th September 2011, 13:14   #187
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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Originally Posted by Rock 'n' rollz View Post
I think its a win-win situation for both rather than matter of survival for Fiat. Does Suzuki have other diesel engines lined up for their cars? So lets be fair to both the manufacturers.
+1000 . People often forget in the heat of moment that if Suzuki has a free run in diesel car market , it;s mainly due to 1.3 Multijet diesel, so just blindly giving up statements like FIAT cannot survive without Suzuki is just plain ignorance. what Happens if today FIAT stops giving the DDIS to MSIL. will be interesting considering that they have just divorced from V W and they don't have their Own diesel technology , which is selling like hot caked here these days due to a spineless govt.

Last edited by .sushilkumar : 16th September 2011 at 13:16.
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Old 16th September 2011, 15:15   #188
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Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
Very much true. I have owned Hyundai and a Fiat. If you ask me Fiat service is thousand times better than that of Hyundai. I have shouted this at least 1000 times .

Hyundai service people dress well and speak well and act like a robo. Never hear about the actual customer complaints. And also, I feel maintenance cost of Hyundai is exorbitantly high. This is truly based on my experience with both the manufacturers and its not a perception.
asdon, rameshnanda, cannot agree more on this. I started from a maruti 800, later a santro Xing and then to Punto. Among all the three, I would rate Fiat service experience at Concorde motors, Mysore road the best so far. Even though the people there are not neatly dressed like what we see in Maruti and Hyundai showrooms, they have gone out of the way to help not once, but twice in my case.

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Originally Posted by sourav21 View Post
This opinion was formed when GP 90HP was introduced. Tests were done with the new cars. The car is a completely different animal when run in. I was "not very happy" initial few days (expecting more), but now after 7000 kms, it is simply fantastic - pulls wildly in its power band. Ride and handling apart, I have simply become a fan of this engine.
Same here Sourav. The car with MJD engine is a different beast altogether once it crosses about 5K in the odo. It continues to get better with age. With 22000 kms on my machine, it is an absolute delight to drive.

Last edited by Amartya : 18th September 2011 at 04:07. Reason: Merged back to back posts. Please use the edit posts option if posting again within 20 minutes.
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Old 16th September 2011, 15:47   #189
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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Originally Posted by gopikb View Post
asdon, rameshnanda, cannot agree more on this. I started from a maruti 800, later a santro Xing and then to Punto. Among all the three, I would rate Fiat service experience at Concorde motors, Mysore road the best so far. Even though the people there are not neatly dressed like what we see in Maruti and Hyundai showrooms, they have gone out of the way to help not once, but twice in my case.
Gopi, what do you don't agree with me ? I also mean the same. I rate Fiat service to be better than that of Hyundai.
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Old 16th September 2011, 15:55   #190
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

Anyone has any idea What Fiat actually want to showcase in Fiat Cafe? Only selling coffee will not attract customers for sure, are they going to put some of their sub-brands showcased in these cafes? or include a Fiat accesories shop too.
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Old 16th September 2011, 15:55   #191
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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Gopi, what do you don't agree with me ? I also mean the same. I rate Fiat service to be better than that of Hyundai.
rameshnanda, Oops. I guess I didnot put the words correctly. What I actually meant is "I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU AND ASDON ON YOUR VIEWS".
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Old 17th September 2011, 16:18   #192
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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+1000 . People often forget in the heat of moment that if Suzuki has a free run in diesel car market , it;s mainly due to 1.3 Multijet diesel, so just blindly giving up statements like FIAT cannot survive without Suzuki is just plain ignorance. what Happens if today FIAT stops giving the DDIS to MSIL. will be interesting considering that they have just divorced from V W and they don't have their Own diesel technology , which is selling like hot caked here these days due to a spineless govt.
I think in that case if FIAT stops giving DDIS to MSIL, then surly FIAT would not be able to survive at least in India. As already their cars are not selling, they would not even reach to BEP for their investment.
MSIL would still be able to survive in the small car (petrol) segment and who knows by then they would tie up with any other co. for diesel engines.
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Old 17th September 2011, 21:49   #193
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I think in that case if FIAT stops giving DDIS to MSIL, then surly FIAT would not be able to survive at least in India. As already their cars are not selling, they would not even reach to BEP for their investment.
MSIL would still be able to survive in the small car (petrol) segment and who knows by then they would tie up with any other co. for diesel engines.

you are under estimating FIAT;s financial muscle my friend. During Financial meltdown , when GM and all filed for protection, they were out looking for acquisitions In world market ( Chrysler was bagged at that time ) FIAT will still survive . the investment they have in India is a 50:50 with Tata;s. So technically they still have market for their engines and trust me when i say that GM is seriously looking thinking about plonking the famed multijet into Aveo Uva .

But Suzuki , they might beg with some other for diesel engine but nobody can match 1.3 multijet. In the end both survives but loss is more to MSIL than FIAT . moreover they have just broken their marriage with VW. there is a reason why they did that and insisted on sticking with FIAT's multijet. with Prices of petrol going out of roof , MSIL cannot survive on petrol;s alone.

In the End both will suffer and both will survive but i see the effect more on MSIL side . FIAT has nothing to loose where as MSIL has everything to loose.

well FIAT is not Supplying any engines to MSI currently from ranjangaon plant. they are manufacturing themselves in their Gurgaon Plant under license from FIAT italy. their indian operation has nothing to do with MSIL .

still , if we consider that FIAT is supplying engines to MSIL directly, you are under estimating FIAT;s financial muscle my friend. During Financial meltdown ,when GM and all filed for protection, they were out looking for acquisitions In world market ( Chrysler was bagged at that time ) FIAT will still survive . the investment they have in India is a 50:50 with Tata;s. So technically they still have market for their engines .

Last edited by GTO : 19th September 2011 at 14:49. Reason: Removing twin quotes after merging :)
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Old 18th September 2011, 10:10   #194
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+1000 . People often forget in the heat of moment that if Suzuki has a free run in diesel car market , it;s mainly due to 1.3 Multijet diesel, so just blindly giving up statements like FIAT cannot survive without Suzuki is just plain ignorance. what Happens if today FIAT stops giving the DDIS to MSIL. will be interesting considering that they have just divorced from V W and they don't have their Own diesel technology , which is selling like hot caked here these days due to a spineless govt.
MSIL is producing the 1.3 DDIS under licence from FIAT in Manesar. So, even if it wants, FIAT can't turn the tap off. While MSIL is in talks to buy engines from FIAT as it does not want to make fresh investments in setting up Diesel engine capacity till there is clarity on the govt policy, there are other manufacturers from whom the technology can be sourced. The PSA is one of these groups.

I believe FIAT will do much better in India as a supplier of engines to other manufacturers tan as a car producer.

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You need to own one before you make any comments. I have a Palio and a Punto with me. I have never faced any issues with the TASS till now and also both cars have never let me down in the last 4 years. In fact I can confidently take them any where at any time.



You exercised your choice of buying a Figo, but that doesn't mean that Linea and Punto are bad cars. No offense meant, but If I go by your logic the the New Ford Fiesta is an utter flop in the market since it failed to gain numbers from the day it was launched.

Well Punto and Linea are pretty capable cars but people lsck confidence in FIAT to buy therir cars. I believe the Linea would have been a whopping success if it had the Toyoto or Honda moniker on its hood.

All I can say is please drive a GP 90BHP before you make tall claims.

In day to day traffic, where we do 90 % of our driving, the Ritz does much better.


I think it was Ford who did the "third world citizens" stuff by dumping the old Ford Fiesta in India as "Ford Figo". But the Indian people bought it. It all comes down to how a product is priced.
Figo is a vry capable overall package which meets the buying criterion of an average car buyer.If pricing was the only criterion FIAT would have been selling in much higher numbers after the discounts they are offering.

The product, the pricing, the *ss , the ownership experience, all play an important role in the success of any car. While a company may change its products very easily, changing perceptions takes a lot of effort and time. FOr this manufacturer needs credibility, which in casew of FIAT is sadly lacking.

Hyundai was a cheap Korean brand in US aroud 10-15 years ago. Now they are rubbing shoulders with the likes of Toyota. It has taken a lot of work and honesty on their part. When people see cars off road for want of spares, poor finish and uneven panel gaps, they form an opinion which is not easy to change.

New outlets run by the existing TATA dealers may not work. It may require something different like GM setting up a new car company when they launched the Saturn brand in U.S.

Last edited by GTO : 19th September 2011 at 14:47. Reason: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another!
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Old 19th September 2011, 11:06   #195
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

Guyz

Any concrete news on this thingy happening in reality? I have heard a millions of news about Fiat's Cafes, Fiat launching 1.6 MJD Linea, Fiat launching face-lifted Linea since last 1.5 years. But nothing of this has happened till date.
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