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Old 8th October 2011, 09:09   #226
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
Despite of low sales(not by European, but as MSIL/Hyundai standards), FIAT India is still running in Profits, thanks to the Huge supplies of their Super successful 1.3 MjD engine(75/90PS) supplies to Maruti Suzuki & TATA, which is making their Cash registers ringing continuously.
Thats not entirely correct, Fiat India share assembly line and engine with Tata Manza & Vista, but they don't supply engines to Maruti Suzuki, MSIL has a license agreement with Fiat S.P.A(not Fiat India) and they produce the multijet engines at their own plat in Manesar.
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Old 8th October 2011, 13:50   #227
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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FIAT India does not get any direct compensation for the license of the DDIS engine. It goes to the parent company itself as an agreement between Suzuki worldwide and FIAT S.p.a. Fiat India (50-50 JV between Fiat S.p.a. and Tata Motors) does not profit from DDIS sales of Maruti.
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Thats not entirely correct, Fiat India share assembly line and engine with Tata Manza & Vista, but they don't supply engines to Maruti Suzuki, MSIL has a license agreement with Fiat S.P.A(not Fiat India) and they produce the multijet engines at their own plat in Manesar.

That's an pretty incomplete information.
Everybody here knows that MSIL manufactures 1.3 DDiS engine of its own at their Manesar plant under Licensed agreement.
Due to recent Diesel powered cars shift & rise in their demand, MSIL have skipped the Production expansion & is sourcing the extra number of readymade engines from FIAT India, especially the 90PS 'SuperTurbo' VGT version for SX4, alongwith few 75PS FGT ones.
Similarly, TATA is also getting readymade engines from FIAT India in return for providing the Sales & After-Sales services for FIAT.

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Originally Posted by architect View Post
The Palio saw a record number of bookings (some 3000 units or so) in 2001 at launch. It was a pretty successful car by the standards of those days. The first year it sold pretty well. By the second year the sales dropped.

The Punto has sold a maximum of 1600 units or so in any month (in 2010) and the Linea something like 1200 (in 2009), if my memory serves me right. Between 2001 and 2009-10, the market has grown manifold.
Your quote is itself is having the Answer of this.
3000 units of Palio/year & 1600 units of Punto/month !
Which one is more, you can easily evaluate.

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Originally Posted by architect View Post
I agree to this to an extent. Though the engine / mechanical parts are the same, the badging is different and the gearboxes are not identical (ratios are different).
Vista Quadrajet shares its Gearbox with Palio Stile diesel & Manza QjD90 with Linea Diesel.

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On the contrary, my fear is that Fiat S.p.a. may sell off its share in Fiat India to Tata Motors some day and walk away.
Given the chance, I don't think TATA will stop producing these cars, considering the fact that they'll be getting the Readymade Briliant cars to sell with established vendors & customers. I don't think they'll leave that opportunity to exploit.
Also heard that Punto platform is going to be shared with the Next-Gen Indica Vista.
Since Mahindra is doing the same with Logan/Verito now.


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Originally Posted by architect View Post
I am not trying to scare anyone here, but maybe we should not build up false hopes. I still think Fiat India is here to stay and I intend to hold on to my Palio as a daily driver till it falls apart. But we should help mo1 make an informed judgement, not an ill-informed one.
Being the words of a FIAT owner, I'm trying to extract some Serious meaning/logic from these lines.
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Old 8th October 2011, 14:10   #228
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
That's an pretty incomplete information.
Everybody here knows that MSIL manufactures 1.3 DDiS engine of its own at their Manesar plant under Licensed agreement.
Due to recent Diesel powered cars shift & rise in their demand, MSIL have skipped the Production expansion & is sourcing the extra number of readymade engines from FIAT India, especially the 90PS 'SuperTurbo' VGT version for SX4, alongwith few 75PS FGT ones.
Similarly, TATA is also getting readymade engines from FIAT India in return for providing the Sales & After-Sales services for FIAT.
Even if I assume your information to be correct, merely making and selling engines to other manufacturers will only ensure that Fiat stays in India, but will it make things easier for the average Fiat owner. If a company continues to make engines, how will it benefit a customer in a far-flung city waiting for an alternator or a fuse-box or a driver's seat height adjust mechanism, for example?

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Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
Your quote is itself is having the Answer of this.
3000 units of Palio/year & 1600 units of Punto/month !
Which one is more, you can easily evaluate.
I said it got 3000 or so bookings at launch. It sold far more than 3000 units within the first year of its launch. In the first few months the Palio sustained 1500 plus numbers a month, in a market that was less than half the size of today. Relatively speaking, the Punto is not far more successful than the Palio. Maybe equivalent.

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Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
Vista Quadrajet shares its Gearbox with Palio Stile diesel & Manza QjD90 with Linea Diesel.
The first and second gears definitely felt different when I drove it. It is an FPT (Fiat Powertrain Technologies) designed gearbox, but I am not sure if the ratios are the same. Same applies to Linea / Manza. Almost every Fiat owner has stated the Linea / GP / Palio MJD have a short 1st / 2nd gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
Given the chance, I don't think TATA will stop producing these cars, considering the fact that they'll be getting the Readymade Briliant cars to sell with established vendors & customers. I don't think they'll leave that opportunity to exploit.
Also heard that Punto platform is going to be shared with the Next-Gen Indica Vista.
Since Mahindra is doing the same with Logan/Verito now.
That is welcome information about the Punto / Indica sharing platforms. However, the "established vendors and customers" that are getting the "readymade brilliant cars" that you speak of are barely selling 1000 units a month in a market where even the Safari is selling 1600 units a month. Fiat has now become a niche product, partly due to a shift in customer priorities and poor reading of the market by Fiat management, apart from the attitude of the service centres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
Being the words of a FIAT owner, I'm trying to extract some Serious meaning/logic from these lines.
I personally am hopeful that Fiat will continue to remain in India. However, it is not a great idea to write things which will give a wrong impression or false hopes to prospective buyers. That goes against the grain of this forum.

If after getting an accurate picture of the circumstances, mo1 buys a Fiat, atleast he should not feel that we gave him wrong advice.

My advice to mo1 is that the Grande Punto is a fantastic car for that price. Fiats are not cars you fall in with over a 15 minute test drive, but over days, weeks, months, years. It's like a long-term relationship.

Make no mistake, I love Fiat cars and every time I drive my car, I am happier than ever. However, after nearly 3.5 years and 73,000 km on my car, I have learnt a thing or two about Fiats and the travails of a Fiat customer.

By writing things like "we can even call an Engineer from Italy" (unless it was meant in jest / humour), I am not sure what you are trying to convey.
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Old 8th October 2011, 14:25   #229
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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By writing things like "we can even call an Engineer from Italy" (unless it was meant in jest / humour), I am not sure what you are trying to convey.
That's a combination of both, friend.
Even if FIAT packs up from India. Then we Punto owners(upcoming) can call a Engineer from FIAT S.p.a, Italy if we encounter a worst of worst technical issue here.
& that's not a big thing either.
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Old 7th November 2011, 12:15   #230
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

Hi Mo1,

So did you go ahead with the decision and consumate your booking to purchasing the Italian beauty ?

Let us know.

Cheers,
Namit.
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Old 30th November 2011, 20:03   #231
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

As per indianautosblog, Fiat will launch their first brandstore in Connaught Place, Delhi on January 6,2012.

Based on the response, they are going to decide if they'll open more such stores across the country.Its a longshot, but I hope the misconception in the minds of general public about the brand is cleared, and they open their minds to owning Fiat cars.

Good move by Fiat, all the best to them in this venture

Fiat brand store in Delhi likely to be inaugurated on Jan 6

Last edited by shashank.nk : 30th November 2011 at 20:07. Reason: Added final comments
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Old 30th November 2011, 22:36   #232
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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Originally Posted by namit View Post
Hi Mo1,

So did you go ahead with the decision and consumate your booking to purchasing the Italian beauty ?

Let us know.

Cheers,
Namit.
Sorry for the late reply! I am busy enjoying my new drive!! yes!!! I bought home the Italian beauty(Punto Emotion 1.3 MJD) on 21-Oct-11 and so far I am loving it! I have typed most of the initial ownership review in the assembly line. I will finish it and post it soon.
I hope Fiat stays here for a while and even if they go, hope I will not face any major issues WRT parts/service etc
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Old 1st December 2011, 01:20   #233
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

mo1, congratulations on going ahead with the purchase. I hope our discussions (and some arguments) on this thread helped your decision.

Now that you've bought your car, don't fret about the parts, just enjoy your ride. I drive a Palio Stile whose parts are even rarer than that of the retro version and I am still happy with it.
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Old 5th December 2011, 18:21   #234
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

Images of the first ever Fiat "boutique" (FIAT Caffe) at Connaught Place, New Delhi, courtesy Prashant Singh @ Motoroids.com.

Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores-fiatcafeindia.jpg

Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores-fiatcafeindia1.jpg

Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores-fiatcafeindia2.jpg

Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores-fiatcafeindia3.jpg


It’s located right next to Cafe Coffee Day Lounge & Ring Road Honda in Janpath, and is scheduled to be open to the public from next month onwards.

Here’s the exact address:

40-42, Janpath,
Connaught Place,
New Delhi – 110001

Details & Source - Exclusive: Images of the first ever Fiat café in India
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Old 5th December 2011, 18:52   #235
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

There is already a 'Fiat Caffe' awaiting to be opened in Koregaon Park, Pune.
I drive past it regularly and know from Tata/Fiat people that it was to be opened in Nov/Dec, but that it has been put on hold with no confirmed date as to when it will open.
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Old 6th December 2011, 12:34   #236
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Default Re: Fiat Caffe - Fiat to open brand center in New Delhi

This has been in the works for a while. Perfect example of misplaced priorities.

Instead of a handful of crores spent in this - they should incentivise dealers to stock fast moving parts, incentivise /educate salesmen, and practically stand on head of the service centers to ensure service delivery.

Clear case of fiddling while Rome is (literally) burning.
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Old 6th December 2011, 14:41   #237
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

One company which has been in India for the longest, and still fails to make a significant cut for itself in terms of sales figures inspite of having great pieces of machinery in Punto and Linea.

Really wish the new 'Fiat Caffe' gimmick pays off for Fiat India. I never really understood why they had to tie up with Tata, and provide second grade experience to customer right from pre-sales to A.S.S. Hope this sort of new beginning works them wonders.
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Old 8th December 2011, 23:00   #238
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

After being in India for almost 14 years they are now starting dealerships after winding down their own dealerships. I think Fiat has got it all wrong, but I salute their perseverance and commitment for the market, but have a feeling this isn't going to go very far. As such they have a huge inventory of cars lying around so the Linea production has been stopped. Johnny come lately's like Nissan are doing decent numbers whereas Fiat: maker of the "National Diesel Engine" is frothing to push cars; one word to sum up the whole thing:SAD. Fiat's "Gaffe" would be more appropriate.
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Old 9th December 2011, 09:18   #239
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Checked out the fiat store in Cp yesterday. Display vehicles are in place as well.
I guess they're going for a new year launch.
Wish I'd had time for a few pictures.
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Old 9th December 2011, 09:39   #240
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Default Re: Fiat says Tata, all set to launch brand stores

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Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
As such they have a huge inventory of cars lying around so the Linea production has been stopped.
Please point us towards the source. It seems possible, but it'd be great to see some attribution. Thanks.
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