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Old 28th October 2010, 09:50   #16
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The Tata's have designed their cars.
Maruti has only selected and localized theirs. Sure the Suzuki Quality helps.
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Old 28th October 2010, 10:23   #17
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Quality is a vague term. I think we need to specify clearly what aspect of quality are we discussing here. Are we discussing reliability and niggle free operation of engine, transmission etc or quality of plastic parts, panel gaps etc ?

Different people have different perceptions of quality - someone might be happy is the car is reliable and niggle free, even if the plastic parts rattle a bit. Someone else may not mind having a few niggles, but would want superior fit and finish.

Rohan
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Old 28th October 2010, 10:34   #18
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Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
Quality is a vague term. I think we need to specify clearly what aspect of quality are we discussing here. Are we discussing reliability and niggle free operation of engine, transmission etc or quality of plastic parts, panel gaps etc ?

Different people have different perceptions of quality - someone might be happy is the car is reliable and niggle free, even if the plastic parts rattle a bit. Someone else may not mind having a few niggles, but would want superior fit and finish.

Rohan
Exactly. I am just amazed the whole "Japanese Quality" image has not taken a hit since the Toyota fiasco. I guess in the USA it probably has.
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Old 28th October 2010, 10:44   #19
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Tata is more customized for our "desi" way of thinking and operating. Comfort, space, utility, etc far more than the buck can provide.

Maruti seems like more of Suzuki, where margins matter more than comfort. Also, the Japs way of thinking, their standards for space, etc. Space always comes at a premium - read rear seat space.

I have cars from both stables. Both have been good for their prices and their respective time frames. To be precise, build quality of Tata has been pretty robust whereas Maruti has been flimsy.

When I take out my family, its always the Tata that gains the most votes for the comfort. When I am out solo or with wifey, its always the Maruti that is preferred. With family, its the aah, that comes with being seated inside the Tata. Call it rubbing shoulders with your spouse, but that is what makes the Maruti special then

I always feel that Maruti had the FTD (Fun To Drive) factor and Tata had the CTH (Close To Heart) factor...

My two cents.
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Old 28th October 2010, 11:44   #20
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TML is known to skimp on quality across its products in the name of pricing. Aria is perhaps the only exception. Which is why TML gives us "more car per car". On the other hand, while Maruti was known for its "Japanese" quality earlier, has now been facing a few issues on that front due to the same reason.

The lowest bidder getting the tender.

OT: M&M has been one Co which has actually made a quantum leap in quality with the Scorpio. Though this statement doesn't hold good in this day and age. Lets see what the W-201 offers.
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Old 28th October 2010, 12:52   #21
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I think if we have learnt one thing from this debate is that Maruti cannot afford to take their quality levels for granted!!

I would encourage a honest comparison between Maruti's and Tata's. The litmus test for any car company is sales. By that standard Tata is making a case for itself and a very strong one at that.

It could well be true that Indian customers would prefer engg. quality rather than extensive refinement, at least for small cars. I think that the Aria is really Tata's way of telling the world that they can build refined and comfortable cars.

On another note I think that now is a really interesting time to be a component supplier here. I think that if suppliers can provide good quality parts at reasonable prices, they could minting money by the truckloads.

Imagine the scenario if Audi and BMW source major components from India? Not only would Audi and Beemers be cheaper thereby increasing sales, but also the Indian auto industry would take off exponentially by using these suppliers for made in India cars as well. Its a win-win situation and everything is to play for.
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Old 28th October 2010, 13:09   #22
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Hi guys!
I had this question lurking about in my head. By now most of you would have heard about the Aria, as well as its niggles.
I haven't heard about the niggles part. Can you point to the thread or the internet web link where it is discussed?
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Old 28th October 2010, 15:02   #23
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I haven't heard about the niggles part. Can you point to the thread or the internet web link where it is discussed?
Very right! Aria isn't even launched and Crazycardude is already seeing niggles. Why are Tata cars so unpalatable to some guys?
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Old 28th October 2010, 15:33   #24
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Originally Posted by crazycardude198 View Post
Hi guys!
I had this question lurking about in my head. By now most of you would have heard about the Aria, as well as its niggles. Well, I've owned 3 Maruti Wagon R's ( dont ask me why) and TBH I have not had any major technical issues with the recent two. The first one was a little touchy though but the models after that were overall pretty good.

My question is this. Maruti have almost 80%+ localization for most of their cars. So do TATA. So then why are Maruti cars built better?
Arent both these car makers using Indian made parts?
This has been pointed out by others; the difference arises with the Japenese history Maruti has and the time gap between the entry of Maruti and Tata into the passenger car market.

Let me ask something first; build wise what do you find more sturdy : a Tata vehicle or a Maruti vehicle. Tata's, coming from their lineage of trucks and buses have always had vehicles strong on built but low on finish (prime eg : the 1st Tata Sumo).

When Maruti launched the first 800 with Suzuki in 1982, it was also quite an ugly duckling; but as times went on, they improved tremendously and now we have finely finished cars from the Maruti stable. The 1st passenger car from Tata came in 1998 (!), and within a decade look the magnitude of improvements they have managed.

I think the basic difference arises from the mentality : Tata (Indian) being building something strong so that it can withstand the roads, the way vehicles are used in India and also the "cost" factor.. while the MS (Japenese) being finesse (but compromising quite a bit on the chasis strength)..

Tata produces cars that are structurally strong but aeasthetically not very good (only until some yrs back); while MS focusses on the looks and FE and costs (before and after) while compromising on the structure. Hence, somehow they manage to come to an almost-similar pricing.

Tata will get there! (and might even go past)
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Old 28th October 2010, 15:35   #25
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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Very right! Aria isn't even launched and Crazycardude is already seeing niggles. Why are Tata cars so unpalatable to some guys?
May be Crazycardude might have gone through GTO review on TATA ARIA.

Quote:
What you won't:
Rs. 14.75 lakh (base) - 17.75 (top variant) on-road is simply overpriced
Third row of seats best suited to kids only
Unsettled ride quality at highway speeds
Apprehensions over initial niggles with new Tata cars
Tata's un-premium after-sales service experiences
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Old 28th October 2010, 15:45   #26
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Originally Posted by indianv2 View Post
To be precise, build quality of Tata has been pretty robust whereas Maruti has been flimsy.

When I take out my family, its always the Tata that gains the most votes for the comfort. With family, its the aah, that comes with being seated inside the Tata.
I always feel that Maruti had the FTD (Fun To Drive) factor and Tata had the CTH (Close To Heart) factor....
+1
Very well put and I agree completely with this.
In my opinion (I own a Xeta and have only driven Maruti not owned), the Tata vehicles are robust and take on considerable abuse. They may have niggles, but no major headaches.
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Old 28th October 2010, 15:48   #27
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Originally Posted by camon View Post
May be Crazycardude might have gone through GTO review on TATA ARIA.
Well, the word used by the reviewer in relation to niggles is Apprehension!
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Old 28th October 2010, 16:07   #28
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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
This has been pointed out by others; the difference arises with the Japenese history Maruti has and the time gap between the entry of Maruti and Tata into the passenger car market.

Let me ask something first; build wise what do you find more sturdy : a Tata vehicle or a Maruti vehicle. Tata's, coming from their lineage of trucks and buses have always had vehicles strong on built but low on finish (prime eg : the 1st Tata Sumo).

When Maruti launched the first 800 with Suzuki in 1982, it was also quite an ugly duckling; but as times went on, they improved tremendously and now we have finely finished cars from the Maruti stable. The 1st passenger car from Tata came in 1998 (!), and within a decade look the magnitude of improvements they have managed.


Tata produces cars that are structurally strong but aeasthetically not very good (only until some yrs back); while MS focusses on the looks and FE and costs (before and after) while compromising on the structure. Hence, somehow they manage to come to an almost-similar pricing.

Tata will get there! (and might even go past)

I also concur. A relative of mine owned the first generation Sumo and I personally hated it. Infact our experience with the first Indica and Sumo made such an impression that me and my father promised ourselves that we would never buy another Tata again.

Now in fairness I have to say that the Sumo my relative had lasted for twelve years which included monthly trips to Bangalore /Warangal / Kodaikonal and Vijaywada. He did 1L kilometers in the first 2 years and it was still chugging along like it could do 4L. I only found this out last year when he sold it and bought and Indica because he was tired of it! They even gave it the name "Hathi".

You make a fair point of TML cars being tough and capable of withstanding punishment. But then so do trucks, and I'll be honest I dont want a truck, I want a comfortable, reasonably refined car.

And it is also true that Maruti cars arent as tough as say TML cars. My Wagon R Duo overall is pretty good but every so often it gets into a bad mood. i.e The engine stalls on idle, the engine warning light comes on every so often, dirt gets stuck in the injectors which have to be replaced every 3 months despite running the car on petrol ( It needs to run on petrol and gas alternatively). I'm curious to know if these issues are common in Tata cars as well. If they aren't then I stand corrected.

Oh and by the way when I meant niggles, I meant the turbo lag and quality of the interiors and the sometimes bumpy ride...those count as niggles.
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Old 28th October 2010, 16:13   #29
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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Very right! Aria isn't even launched and Crazycardude is already seeing niggles. Why are Tata cars so unpalatable to some guys?
Yes you are right, Tata cars are very unpalatable to me and I hate all of them....which is why I am spending 15 Lakhs on a new Tata Aria..
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Old 28th October 2010, 17:25   #30
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We also need to look at the fact that the negotiation power of the supplier plays a part. When india Pistons became the front runner in pistons in India due to maruti developing them, they automatically were the first choice for the Tata Indica project. Here the difference being the fact that Tatas actually wouldn't mind going to them and giving the order as he had already proved his mettle.
The Supplier turns out to be the king here. Tatas in their long journey had to encounter many such 'maruti created' 'Kings' most of whom were actually monopolising their respective sectors. Tatas at some point had enough and with Taco supplying more and more components, the going seems to be better as on date.
But one irritating thing even to this day about the Tatas is that they still don look at domestic competition.... say an Ashok Leyland or a Mahindra. If they actually sit down with the customers and discuss as to why people buy a Bolero, Scorpio or and Ashok Leyland truck, they can get the 'real facts' and subsequently improve their portfolio.
Another issue is that they're not doing anything much to improve the engine life of the 483 DL and the 475 DL engines which power the Sumo and the Indica V2. Both these engines are not known to last over 1.5 lacs Km (maximum) whereas the archaic Isuzu unit made in the Pithampur unit of HM (Now Avtec) lasts a good 3 lac Kms without an overhaul. There is no doubt about the fact that when it comes to engine life , Tatas rank the lowest even today.
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