Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th October 2010, 18:03   #31
BHPian
 
Maverick1977's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 832
Thanked: 249 Times
Default

Tata cars have improved vastly over a short period of 10 years. The Vista is a much much improved avatar of its predecessor. Also Maruti has had a lot of Govt. backing right from the start. Please recall whose idea was it in the 1st place to get it started & things will be clear why I am saying more Govt. support.
Now coming to CCD198 - Requets clarification when you said "....By now most of you would have heard about the Aria, as well as its niggles." Can you please tell me who told U about the niggles in this car? Sorry but this shows that we are so very sure that ALL Tata cars will have problems. Please appreciate the efforts that might have gone in getting this car on the road. I have seen the car & as pointed out the car is so much better than the Safari for instance. But is it fair to compare this with the Safari? Definitely not. Its a newer gen vehicle & deserves it time.
Coming to think of it why have we all not stopped using Windows OS. I mean come on the system is full of issues & problems & Microsoft releases patches to solve those issues every few days. Have we stopped using Windows & switched to Linux or Sun OS? No na, then why cant we extend the same attitute to Tata Motors as well.
I have used Maruti cars for years & stayed away from Tata cars for a very long time. However when I test drove the Vista and compared it with the Swift I found the Vista much fresh & the plastics were at least different than the usual Black/Gray I had lived with in most cars I had owned earlier. Vista is definitely not to be written off as a typical Tata product.
Maverick1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2010, 18:50   #32
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HYDERABAD
Posts: 87
Thanked: 23 Times
Cool

I might be speculating here but since you mentioned the piston issue I had a thought. Do you think it is possible that India Pistons are supplying flawed components to Tata at the behest of Maruti to sabotage Indica sales? I know its a bit sinister but It does look like something a powerful company like Maruti could do.
crazycardude198 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2010, 19:19   #33
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HYDERABAD
Posts: 87
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick1977 View Post
Tata cars have improved vastly over a short period of 10 years. The Vista is a much much improved avatar of its predecessor. Also Maruti has had a lot of Govt. backing right from the start. Please recall whose idea was it in the 1st place to get it started & things will be clear why I am saying more Govt. support.
Now coming to CCD198 - Requets clarification when you said "....By now most of you would have heard about the Aria, as well as its niggles." Can you please tell me who told U about the niggles in this car? Sorry but this shows that we are so very sure that ALL Tata cars will have problems. Please appreciate the efforts that might have gone in getting this car on the road. I have seen the car & as pointed out the car is so much better than the Safari for instance. But is it fair to compare this with the Safari? Definitely not. Its a newer gen vehicle & deserves it time.
Coming to think of it why have we all not stopped using Windows OS. I mean come on the system is full of issues & problems & Microsoft releases patches to solve those issues every few days. Have we stopped using Windows & switched to Linux or Sun OS? No na, then why cant we extend the same attitute to Tata Motors as well.
I have used Maruti cars for years & stayed away from Tata cars for a very long time. However when I test drove the Vista and compared it with the Swift I found the Vista much fresh & the plastics were at least different than the usual Black/Gray I had lived with in most cars I had owned earlier. Vista is definitely not to be written off as a typical Tata product.
A "niggle" is a small complaint or defect. Who told me about the Aria's niggles? No one! I found these niggles myself! I didnt like the turbo lag, I didnt like seeing bits of rubber sealing both inside and out, I didnt like how the Aria behaved on bumpy roads at slow speeds. Despite these I know that they are niggles and as such should be taken in context with the rest of the car.

There is NO and I mean NO car on earth which is niggle free. I have a Wagon R. Does it have niggles? Yes of course!! The injectors get clogged with dirt every 3 months, the seatbelt rattles near the B-Pillar which is a distraction when I drive. Does that mean I hate it?? Of course not!!

As for my attitude towards Tata,let me just say this. I bought an Indica and it bombed . I sold it and got a Wagon R in exchange. I lost a lot of money on a car which promised to be VFM. I think I am entitled to be a little suspicious of Tata cars but despite that I am taking a leap of faith and spending 15L on a Tata car which has just been launched. That clearly means that I am convinced that this Aria is worth the investment. I hope that clears everything up.
crazycardude198 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2010, 20:19   #34
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,426 Times
Default

1) Maruti Quality Example :
In Oct 2005, we purchased Baleno, a car that is still working like a dream. Can embrass new breed of sedans with ease and with proper tyres ( we still have original 165 section S322 that make a lot of noise and really not up there in grip ) can match other few " high sedans " I suppose.

The only problem is that the so called automatic antenna is not coming out fully or going down fully.

Recently we purchased K10 Wagon R CNG. Yes, the Wagon R with K10 engine and factory fitted CNG. It was from the first lot that came to my city. The left rear door lock was working in opposite manner. If the central locking would lock all doors, the left rear door was opened. If all doors were opened by central lock, the left rear door would be locked.
So the left rear door lock was working in opposite fashion.

The dealer did not look into it and gave the car to us. He admitted to problem and it was rectified.

2) Mechanical reliability.
Even in small engine series we are getting a good engine, overall reliability is of highest order ( we have taken the car out in rains on highways and mostly Waggie has done highway trips only ) and AC is working very well despite the large windows and windscreen in Gujarat. Would be good enough for summers.
On mechanical front we find the car upto the mark. The plastic quality is near to Baleno standards and power window switches are better than what we are having in Baleno. The overall quality of plastic parts, etc. has gone up.

But the minor error does not mean that on the whole quality is going down. We already have done highway trips and despite the large front area + poor aerodynamics, the engine does a good job. Gear shift is not too bad either, the light stalk feels quite good hold. Waggie feels good enough for what we have paid.

Sound insulation is better than what we had in Baleno on day 1. Quality of rubber beadings, etc. is better, even the wiper blades are better than what Baleno had.

On the whole Maruti has gone up and up there with the best as far as reliability is concerned. Things are better in Ritz, A-star and new Wagon R. Our family friend has SX4 how lives in our area with bad roads. Not even a rattle or anything.

3) About Maruti VS TATA ?
Lets forget Maruti for a moment. Lets bring in Mahindra. Look at what they are offering. Scorpio is better in terms of quality and reliability ( from what I have read, I am yet to drive both the vehicles as extensively like for example Baleno or 800 or Zen or even Santro, i10 ). I have visited dealerships and instantly quality of vehicles is different in a way one can feel.

Mahindra dealership had honest people. If the sales person did not know about Xylo kerb weight, he would say " Koi Idea nathi sir " i.e. I dont have any idea about kerb weight of Xylo. In case of Tata, the people usually bluff.

Mahindra itself is better in quality and reliability as compared to Tata.

Maruti reamins a good benchmark for reliability, and considering the cost and volume it produces, hats off to Maruti for giving reliability and service at low cost atleast in small car market.
aaggoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2010, 22:26   #35
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kottayam
Posts: 1,081
Thanked: 153 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
But one irritating thing even to this day about the Tatas is that they still don look at domestic competition.... say an Ashok Leyland or a Mahindra. If they actually sit down with the customers and discuss as to why people buy a Bolero, Scorpio or and Ashok Leyland truck, they can get the 'real facts' and subsequently improve their portfolio.
TM sells much more trucks than AL and got much more wide range. Why would they need to learn from AL, i think it should be the otherway? Yes, Bolero is another story, some point TM need to pay attention to this sector.
teamveevee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2010, 22:27   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
HammerHead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Goan in Pune
Posts: 1,093
Thanked: 210 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycardude198 View Post
As for my attitude towards Tata,let me just say this. I bought an Indica and it bombed . I sold it and got a Wagon R in exchange. I lost a lot of money on a car which promised to be VFM. I think I am entitled to be a little suspicious of Tata cars but despite that I am taking a leap of faith and spending 15L on a Tata car which has just been launched. That clearly means that I am convinced that this Aria is worth the investment. I hope that clears everything up.
I wonder why??

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Mahindra itself is better in quality and reliability as compared to Tata.
Just like Hyundai compared to Maruti.

Quote:
Maruti remains a good benchmark for reliability, and considering the cost and volume it produces, hats off to Maruti for giving reliability and service at low cost atleast in small car market.
I totally agree. Fuel efficiency and reliability is what we expect from Japanese cars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
TM sells much more trucks than AL and got much more wide range. Why would they need to learn from AL, i think it should be the otherway? Yes, Bolero is another story, some point TM need to pay attention to this sector.
Yeah. Other then that last few years Tata concentrated more on cars like Indica/Indigo, Vista/Manza, Nano rather then MUV/SUV segment. Unlike Mahindras, Tatas have put their hand in different segmants/vehicles at the same time.

Last edited by HammerHead : 28th October 2010 at 22:35.
HammerHead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2010, 08:43   #37
mxx
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 682
Thanked: 101 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default

Well, Tatas started passenger cars manufacturing in 1998 and this development was started from a clean slate and not by JVs
Maruti on the other hand brought in suzuki technology and products and manufactured it here. Suzuki manufactured their first car in 1954.
So, we are talking about more than 40 years head start in terms of technology and expertise in building cars.

If you take the case of hyundai which manufactured its first car in 1968. As recently as 20-25 years ago people were not comfortable buying a hyundai. That was because cars from hyundai prior to this period were not reliable and had lot of problems not just niggles. But now it is there with the Japs in terms of quality and is denting sales of Jap cars in the west. Here in India it is better built than maruti cars.
Why I take this example is, Tata has been consistently improving its products. If it keeps this pace we can see hyundai/maruti like niggle free well build products in less than 10 years.

At an interview Anand Mahindra said that without the Ford (escort) JV, scorpio would not have been possible. This explains why scorpio was a big leap in terms of Mahindra.
But Tatas never had JVs in passenger segment to get the expertise faster. Even without that IMO it is doing pretty good.
mxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2010, 10:27   #38
BHPian
 
deepakchiniwal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 347
Thanked: 27 Times
Default

I have owned a Tata and now own a Maruti. There are a lot of differences that are there. I owned a Tata in 2007 and Maruti in 2009

Barring the Pre sales, Engine (Petrol, which I owned) and Service I would still want to buy a Tata based on Quality that was there in 2007.

Take a simple example, on NH4 I happened to be driving the Indica XETA GLS@ 100 km/hr. I hit a Dog, stop the Vehicle immediately check for Damages. Surprise no Damage....I drive on to Hubli and travel back to Bangalore later. No Issues.

Same NH4 fast forward to 2010, driving a Dzire @ 110 km/hr, hit a Dog again. Stop the Vehicle immediately check for Damages, there you go bumper down broken, complete coolant gone, radiator gone, fog lamps gone. Total damage of 25K. Plus add to it 6k for Cab, 2 weeks without the vehicle.

I am wishing Tata improves the Quality still further reducing those panel gaps and others. Few Engines I guess they have taken care by JV with Fiat, get in fresh designs, get rid of the age old smiley face in front last but not least they revamp the entire service and dealers. Atleast they are not arrogant as VW, Skoda, and Maruti (selling the hot cakes like swift, dzire, alto etc) sales folks.
deepakchiniwal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2010, 11:29   #39
Senior - BHPian
 
amtak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai - The city of Sea Link!!!
Posts: 2,782
Thanked: 342 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakchiniwal View Post
Take a simple example, on NH4 I happened to be driving the Indica XETA GLS@ 100 km/hr. I hit a Dog, stop the Vehicle immediately check for Damages. Surprise no Damage....I drive on to Hubli and travel back to Bangalore later. No Issues.

Same NH4 fast forward to 2010, driving a Dzire @ 110 km/hr, hit a Dog again. Stop the Vehicle immediately check for Damages, there you go bumper down broken, complete coolant gone, radiator gone, fog lamps gone. Total damage of 25K. Plus add to it 6k for Cab, 2 weeks without the vehicle.
Just out of curiosity, which dog survived? My question might sound silly, but isn't it good that the car broke, rather than the dog's bones? Please replace a human being with a dog and you would know what I am talking about.

Sometimes, being tough does not necessarily mean, being safe.

Yes, I agree with everyone that TATA's have come a long way and I wish them all the success.

Thanks!

Last edited by amtak : 29th October 2010 at 11:32.
amtak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2010, 12:47   #40
Senior - BHPian
 
romeomidhun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,625
Thanked: 1,875 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakchiniwal View Post
Same NH4 fast forward to 2010, driving a Dzire @ 110 km/hr, hit a Dog again. Stop the Vehicle immediately check for Damages, there you go bumper down broken, complete coolant gone, radiator gone, fog lamps gone.
This is called pedestrian safety measures, I think. What amtak said is correct - need to consider both parties.
romeomidhun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2010, 13:02   #41
BHPian
 
deepakchiniwal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 347
Thanked: 27 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amtak View Post
Just out of curiosity, which dog survived?
Well, sadly answer to it is both the dogs did not survive :(
I ensured the bodies do not continue to be run upon by pulling them to the side.
deepakchiniwal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2010, 13:30   #42
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vizag
Posts: 1,981
Thanked: 1,337 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakchiniwal View Post
Well, sadly answer to it is both the dogs did not survive :(
I ensured the bodies do not continue to be run upon by pulling them to the side.
Deepak, you left them speechless.
pgsagar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2010, 13:46   #43
Distinguished - BHPian
 
supremeBaleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Weekdays@Chennai, Weekends@Kerala
Posts: 5,164
Thanked: 1,635 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami
In Oct 2005, we purchased Baleno, a car that is still working like a dream. we still have original 165 section S322. The only problem is that the so called automatic antenna is not coming out fully or going down fully.
165 section tyres came on the Lxi and the LXi does not have auto-antenna. Was the auto-antenna an after-market fitment or your car is a VXi with 185 section tyres ?
supremeBaleno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2010, 14:28   #44
BHPian
 
channelv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kochi
Posts: 107
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

I have driven both Tata and Maruti vehicles over a long period and I can say for sure, the quality in Maruti vehicles were a few notches above Tata in the initial Indica days but what I observed was that, Tata have genuinely tried to bring up the quality of their vehicles where as Maruti did otherwise to cut down costs.

Tata's new generation vehicles have a quality which is better or at least similar to Maruti vehicles of similar price segment. The problem I felt is not with Tata vehicle's quality but with the quality of their service. The service personals don't have a clue as to what the meaning of perfection is. They are still stuck in the old Indica days.
channelv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2010, 14:29   #45
BHPian
 
rohan_iitr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 992
Thanked: 401 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakchiniwal View Post
Well, sadly answer to it is both the dogs did not survive :(
I ensured the bodies do not continue to be run upon by pulling them to the side.
We need more people like you in Bangalore, the stray dog population is really high here.

Rohan
rohan_iitr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No hope for traffic sense? Study says quality of driving depends upon quality of government! tsk1979 Street Experiences 14 23rd April 2016 16:18
Indica Vista Quality Survey by TATA R&D Department. Anyone faced this ? mod-the-pc The Indian Car Scene 12 15th December 2009 16:56
Only if Tata could back a great 2.2 Safari Engine with product quality and service!!! ajit_72 Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 11 6th December 2009 20:53
Which (ICE Component) will make the most difference in Sound Quality? low_bass_makker In-Car Entertainment 43 7th April 2008 10:00
Tata 1 lac car, suzuki doubts quality ! GeekSrik The Indian Car Scene 52 13th December 2007 18:35


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:26.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks