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Old 4th November 2010, 04:16   #91
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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Finally, all products from Honda are in the minus. Wonder why?
Exactly the same thoughts came on me, all the Hondas have gone down in sales, interesting.

Waiting for the counts from Beemers and Mercs. Nice numbers there by Audi Qs
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Old 4th November 2010, 11:56   #92
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I don't see why everybody seems to be whining over sales of the Jazz and Micra. A Rs 7 lakh hatchback sells as much as it deserves. Honda cannot bring the price down with the existing model and by 2012, expect an engineered for India (next-gen) Jazz at a slightly lower price.

Nissan Micra IMHO is doing reasonably well. 20 odd dealers and 1000+ equates to over 50 cars per dealer per month. Once more dealers are added, we can see some rise.

8000 odd for Santro is an awesome achievement. Tier-II cities do the trick for Hyundai Santro. i20, Swift, i10, WagonR and Alto have taken over the hatchback segment.

I feel sorry for Linea. Wonderful machine let down by Tata aftersales and Fiat's image. Will their No.2 spot in JD power contribute to higher sales in the future?
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Old 4th November 2010, 13:36   #93
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I think Fiat's going no where with their anemic engines and poor fit and finish. Both Punto and Linea are sold as premium products without being suitably justified (save for the gorgeous Italian styling and brilliant chassis). IMHO only way up for Fiat is to improve quality and dish out more performance from Punto and Linea diesels.
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Old 4th November 2010, 13:54   #94
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Originally Posted by octane_100 View Post
I think Fiat's going no where with their anemic engines and poor fit and finish. Both Punto and Linea are sold as premium products without being suitably justified (save for the gorgeous Italian styling and brilliant chassis). IMHO only way up for Fiat is to improve quality and dish out more performance from Punto and Linea diesels.
I seriously doubt that. The only issue is the brand image. Only minority of people care about the engines and fit and finish. These things don't matter for Indian buyers. It is just the brand image which is synonymous with overheating padmini's and somewhat with the moody discontinued brands Peugeot and Renault. C'mon most Indians are first time car buyers. They don't even care about engine power. People who do are less than a percent or a fraction of that. Their are other sluggish cars that sell.

FIAT needs to do a VW in advertising but it can not. The success of such a campaign is not guaranteed because FIAT ain't VW. FIAT also doesn't have as much money as VW to spend. VW is probably the richest company ever and can do a lot by consistent/innovative advertising alone. FIAT barely talks about what it is.

The niggling problems in FIAT cars isn't helping matters either. Let's face it, FIAT's are still not as trouble free to own as even an Alto or Santro. Let alone Honda's that it is competing with in case of Linea. Tata dealers are villagers compared to VW and Honda, and I am talking about the biggest FIAT/Tata dealer here in Pune. Trust me, the engine power issues are the least of FIAT's concerns.
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Old 4th November 2010, 17:28   #95
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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Honda sales are down a lot!
332 for Jazz is way too low and I thought the sales are picking up given the number of Jazz I see on the road!
Feel bad being a fellow owner!
Amazing, isnt it? Even I find it unbelievable that Jazz numbers would be down by half in October- especially with as much as Rs.1 Lakh discount going on! Isn't something wrong with that data?! Or is it possible that the results of the discount would show up only in November sales figures? Any insights anyone?

Originally Posted by blue_pulsar View Post
Wow! i20 is the king of premium hatches! And it deserves to be! I just hope that the 1.2 is replaced by the 1.4 at the same price. Rightly geared, the 1.4 100bhp should be a cracker. I somehow believe it would touch 10K then.
I am not sure I agree with that sentiment about I20 deserving to be no:1. It probably is no:1 going by those numbers but that does not necessarily make it deserving of no:1 position. I am not disputing its selling by truckloads (so it must be good for many of them), just that it doesnt deserve so much praise and attention as a premium hatchback.

Mind you, I had almost booked an I20. I went through the entire process and then finally I couldnt convince myself that it was good enough for the 7 lac OTR price for the model with ABS that I wanted. The killer was the steering column/suspension sound. I did some serious research on the steering column rattling noise issue (tried getting some answers with Hyundai dealers and Hyundai corporate) and in my final test drive on the badlands of Sarjapur Road-> Parapana agrahara(the worst possible non-road in bangalore) revealed a very bad ride and the strange sound from the area beneath the steering column.

Originally Posted by RS_DEL View Post
A couple of random thoughts.

There were quite a few complaints about i20 steering column related problems. Has this problem been resolved if it was due to an engg design shortcoming? Or were these complaints restricted to a batch/a few customers? Or is this a case "take the plunge and deal with issue later?
The answer from my research is a "no"! I sold my old car almost a month back and I have been researching I20 all along. I kept postponing the booking trying to get some answers on the rattling noise. In could not find any concrete answers inspite of talking to many dealers and service personnel. Sales manager from Trident Hyundai, I-nagar branch even denied ever hearing about this complaint from any customer. He challenged me to take his test drive car and put it through paces at the time and place of my choice to test out the rattling sound. I did! And boy am I glad, I did!!! I took the car on October 19th down 10AM down the Sarjapur road towards parapana agrahara via the primus/gear schools and boy did it rattle away to great glory! My mother, wife and myself all looked at each other and said, "nah"! There was no way, I was going to book an I20 AFTER that! I am glad I took up that test drive otherwise I would have just fell for the sweet-talking sales guys...Its a good car, mind you, just that at 7 lacs OTR, I dont want to be dealing with that rattling sound off the bat.

I plan to write more in detail about my recent experience with Hyundai sales/ service, test drive and my final decision on why did not book and I20 and why I bought the car I bought as soon as I am 25 posts old!


Last edited by FlyingSpur : 5th November 2010 at 17:45. Reason: Please use the EDIT function instead of posting back-to-back posts within 20 minutes. Thanks.
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Old 4th November 2010, 19:10   #96
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Punto seems to have got a second life - with the T-Jet
It's the Linea which got the T-Jet Engine option recently, Not the Punto. Linea's sales have dropped this month.
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Old 5th November 2010, 11:07   #97
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Post Fortuner vs CRv

In the SUV segment, Fortuner is the leader. Also looks like the main loser is the CRV, the <30 figure is really bad. I think Honda takes note and does something about it.
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Old 5th November 2010, 15:07   #98
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FIAT target sales 2010: 46.000 cars
Jan-Oct 2010: 20.607 cars

What happens?

Statistics on Fiat India: Sales of Fiat cars in India
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Old 5th November 2010, 16:22   #99
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3 R8s ! good stuff.. any ideas as to which colours and locations? 1 is ranbirs red one i guess.. or that would have definitely been booked before October for him to get delivery last month right?
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Old 5th November 2010, 17:09   #100
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FIAT should bring an engine which is comparable to Suzuki's K Series/the Kappa from Hyundai(1.2L) in Punto and price it at Figo levels. Also try reducing the weight of the car by 25-50Kg to increase the performance of the car.

IMHO for an average customer, handling and ride quality comes with least priority. He looks at the space inside and maybe the engine(diesel/petrol) to come to a conclusion. He doesn't care if it is a VGT or FGT powered engine and most cars today have good suspension to soak over the irregularities on the road.

All he wants is a car to move him from A to B with good F.E. and possibly good A.S.S. So it is perfectly understandable that he prefers Manza over Linea. No dirty tricks here If FIAT didn't think that TATA cars will cannibalize their sales, then they can be classified foolish.

And if FIAT wants to sell cars in India, then they better start bringing cars that the majority here needs and possibly induce their racing DNA into it rather than showcasing ride and handling in a country where majority is obsessed with mileage.
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Old 6th November 2010, 09:35   #101
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Originally Posted by nvkale2 View Post
My God ! Exactly same happened with me. The moment he said this I replied" My grandfather owned FIAT1100, my father owns Padmini, My elder brother owned Uno and I am also going to own a FIAT. Even if you don't sell I'l import the lowest model of FIAT by paying 200% tax". He was just speechless for next 5 mins thinking , he got caught while stealing something.
VFM matters and I think selling Fiat and Tata cars under the same roof is quite difficult without even having such salesmen. Look at the Dzire, how it sells. People looking for the size or the appearance of size( which equates to more bang for the money). When we finalized the purchase of the Punto thats when the Manza was released. When I saw it the for the 1st time I was impressed by the size of it but the killer blow comes when you see the price tag. Most people who aren't so interested the form factor will go for the tata cars.
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Old 6th November 2010, 13:24   #102
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About FIAT, i feel that while the cars are VFM, the whole FIAT experience is not very confidence inspiring. When i went for the Figo titanium, I was offered the Punto Emotion for just 6.2 Lakh OTR in trivandrum, less than 20 grand more than what i paid for the Figo. While figo and Punto were evenly matched as products(we already had a palio(sold the palio since then) and Fiesta. so experience with both carmakers), the TATA-FIAT dealership experience was not confidence inspiring. So ended up buying the Figo. FIAT has to invest in it's *** and sales teams to get anywhere in terms of sales. I have always felt that FIAT is more interested in it's engine sales :(.
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Old 6th November 2010, 16:22   #103
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I am not a big Fiat myself but 1700 for Linea +Punto makes me sad. It's a nice looking, decent-performing set of vehicles and much worse sells much better in this country.

Perhaps tying up with Tata and selling competing vehicles under the same roof is not such a good idea?
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Old 6th November 2010, 18:19   #104
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Dzire : 9644
Swift : 12948
This is got to be the 2nd best selling un-facelifted 5 year old model in India, after the Alto. If they were capable of producing 30k units PM (20k Swifts+10k Dzires), the will be still snapped up immediately.

Me thinks it can comfortably maintain these numbers for upto 2 more years, even with the same model.
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Old 6th November 2010, 22:31   #105
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I think part of Fiat's problem (apart from perceived image and after sales) is the fact that their cars are simply too heavy, as they are more sturdily built. Let's face it, the Maruti's are more tinny but consequently, lighter. A heavier car needs more power to push it along, and would also probably have a heavier steering.

Let's look at for instance, the Punto 1.2 = 1145kgs 67bhp
Other premium hatches with 1.2 engines
i20 = 1065kg 80bhp
Swift = 1000kgs 84bhp
Micra = 930kgs 75bhp
Polo = 1030kgs 74bhp
Jazz = 1055kg 89bhp

The same weight problem plagues the Indica Vista 1.2 = 1135kgs, 67bhp.

Fiat has suffered because it did not tune its engines properly and has not given engines which are anywhere near the top of the class (at least in Petrols). I don't know why they couldn't retrofit the K12 engine into the Punto.

Something Positive about the Jazz's high price and low sales? By creating an image of a very premium hatch, I guess the 2CV small car would have an even better image in the customers eyes, hence Honda can get away by charging a slight premium on that model also. Of course, before than, they would be watching the Etios veryyy carefully.

I guess in India, the better strategy seems to be launch higher end products first, say C-Segment vehicles and above, and later on launch cheaper small cars. That way, they become an aspiration for people to go in for the brand. Conversely, making a premium image shift upwards is difficult, just look at Maruti and Hyundai, who find selling Rs. 10lakh+ vehicles difficult, as compared to Honda, Skoda or Toyota.
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