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Old 7th November 2010, 00:34   #106
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Originally Posted by avi550m View Post
A heavier car needs more power to push it along, and would also probably have a heavier steering.
That's not totally correct. With power steering, the weight of the car doesn't decide whether the steering is light or heavy after a point. Fiat, typically uses Hydraulic Power Steering (HPS) which is, by nature, somewhat heavy at low speeds. Maruti uses Electronic / Electric Power Steering (EPS) which feels lighter. The HPS on Fiats has more feel and feedback than the EPS on Marutis, but I am not sure if it is a generic rule. The HPS on Indica doesn't give as much feedback as the HPS on a Palio.

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I don't know why they couldn't retrofit the K12 engine into the Punto.
I don't think Fiat has the licence to make Suzuki petrol engines. It's MSIL which has the license to make (one) Fiat diesel engine in India.

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Let's face it, the Maruti's are more tinny but consequently, lighter.
The new-gen Marutis are not so light. The Swift diesel is a few kgs heavier than the Palio Multijet. I think it has to do with the fact that the new Suzukis are designed for European markets and have to be heavier to satisfy their taste in ride and handling. I think.

Last edited by architect : 7th November 2010 at 00:36.
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Old 7th November 2010, 12:18   #107
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Any ideas of Nano sales so low?

Is it already losing steam?

I would have expected Nano to gradually go over the 10K mark especially since it had clocked around 8K in the previous month.

Vento at 1600 odd is impressive,SX4 needs to come out with a diesel soon.Although fair to say,with only the petrol version it manages to hold to no 2 in the segment(behind ANHC by a long distance).
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Old 7th November 2010, 19:01   #108
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Originally Posted by avi550m View Post
I think part of Fiat's problem (apart from perceived image and after sales) is the fact that their cars are simply too heavy, as they are more sturdily built. Let's face it, the Maruti's are more tinny but consequently, lighter. A heavier car needs more power to push it along, and would also probably have a heavier steering.

Let's look at for instance, the Punto 1.2 = 1145kgs 67bhp
Other premium hatches with 1.2 engines
i20 = 1065kg 80bhp
Swift = 1000kgs 84bhp
Micra = 930kgs 75bhp
Polo = 1030kgs 74bhp
Jazz = 1055kg 89bhp

The same weight problem plagues the Indica Vista 1.2 = 1135kgs, 67bhp.

Fiat has suffered because it did not tune its engines properly and has not given engines which are anywhere near the top of the class (at least in Petrols). I don't know why they couldn't retrofit the K12 engine into the Punto.
.
I was browsing the net and I found this review from Jeremy Clarkson on 2006 Grande Punto 1.4 Fire (which should be more or less the same model what we have)
Jeremy Clarkson Fiat Grande Punto review | Driving - Times Online

It seems like even he is facing the same problem as we are here, not powerful enough to drive.
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Old 8th November 2010, 16:49   #109
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Skoda
Laura : 385
Fabia : 756
Superb : 420
Yeti : 102

I see the Skoda Fabia figures going up.. is it mainly due to the new Fabia launch?

Do you see the momentum continuing or is it just the hype related to all new model launches?

GTO is there a way of figuring out how many were diesel and how many were petrols?

Thanks,
Kunaal
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Old 8th November 2010, 17:08   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Sedans sorted by selling numbers:
Nice work romeomidhun

It actually makes sence to have an analysis like this one. Infact the next time round, lets also mention the price range for each car Ex say mumbai and see how they stack up vs the prices.

One does overall see the pattern, emmerge for the major vehicles doing well, but then there is Honda city doing much better than it's pricing on such a scale, and then there was also the Superb selling more than the Laura this month within the same brand itself.
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Old 10th November 2010, 12:21   #111
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*Update* Mercedes added to the opening post. Not a good month for the three-pointed star, the E especially has delivered a rather average performance. Notice how the niche vehicles (M, R, GL etc.) add up to the overall numbers.

Quote:
Mercedes
C Class : 169
SLK : 3
SLS AMG : 1
E-Coupe : 3
E-Cabrio : 1
E-Class : 137
S-Class : 64
M-Class : 20
GL-Class : 16
R-Class : 16
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Old 10th November 2010, 13:24   #112
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Indeed a very average performance from Mercedes. The gap between E Class & A6 and C Class & A4 has reduced considerably in October.

I think the performance is especially average, when you take into consideration that Mercedes delivered 150 of the 430 odd cars sold coming out of a single order only last month!

Mercedes Benz gets order of 150 cars worth Rs 65 crore from Aurangabad - The Economic Times
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Old 10th November 2010, 13:49   #113
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Cannot wait for BMW Numbers to come in, I don't know if anyone recollects but in various threads I have said it that W212 will not be able to match in terms of the F10, and I suppose now everyone can see the results. Also BMW's final weapon is yet to come in Feb 2011 (F10 520d) also planned is it's corporate edition which will be looked at a later stage all in all BMW India is on a roll.

Still cannot confirm but with this month's numbers I guess BMW will also have overtaken Mercedes in terms of annual sales, so much for Mercedes going on launching niche models just to be in the press,

I also predicted 5000+ sales in the start of the year and considering they are not at 4651 units, with 430 sold in October 2010, that number will be crossed in November itself, I also think the same with BMW (still so excited to see their numbers)

Regards,

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Old 10th November 2010, 21:57   #114
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Surprising figures to me:
Aveo : 399
G. Vitara : 17
Prius : 10

This shows the still HM&M s wrong strategy for India:
Montero : 4

Is the booking/delivery happening?
Yeti : 102

I don't see one in CBE roads.
Aria : 344

This is expected, I do not think VW can sell super luxury sedans. They better try bringing Tiguan instead.
Phaeton : 0

Are this Govt/Military orders ot to normal public?
Gypsy : 405
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Old 13th November 2010, 11:56   #115
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*Update* BMW added to the opening post:

Quote:
BMW
3 series : 267
5 series : 343
7 series : 58
6 series : 0
X3 : 1
X5 : 41
X6 : 24
Z4 : 11
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Old 13th November 2010, 12:31   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by architect View Post
That's not totally correct. With power steering, the weight of the car doesn't decide whether the steering is light or heavy after a point. Fiat, typically uses Hydraulic Power Steering (HPS) which is, by nature, somewhat heavy at low speeds. Maruti uses Electronic / Electric Power Steering (EPS) which feels lighter. The HPS on Fiats has more feel and feedback than the EPS on Marutis, but I am not sure if it is a generic rule. The HPS on Indica doesn't give as much feedback as the HPS on a Palio.
Its not dependent on HPS or EPS. The manufacturer chooses the feel of the steering. An HPS can be made sufficiently light by boosting. I remember BMW boosting the power of its HPS during 2001 or 2002 on 3 series compared to the earlier ones. Why they do it might be dependent on their research.
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Old 13th November 2010, 14:28   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
*Update* BMW added to the opening post:
Impressive numbers from BMW. the new 5 is really doing well
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Old 13th November 2010, 14:44   #118
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745 cars by BMW is a HUGE number, compare this to Mercedes-Benz which only sold 430 cars including I assume the Aurangabad block deal. And boy oh boy is the 5 series doing good, this is beyond expectation, and surprised to see the 3 doing so good almost in it's final leg of production. I wonder what mercedes India is doing wrong but looks like they just do not understand what they need to do, this brings BMW's total numbers for this year at 4733,compare that to Mercedes who is now at 4651 units and also it takes back the crown from Mercedes-Benz of being India's #1 car maker which Mercedes had only for initial few months of 2010 and that was only due to the new 5 coming in which gave them few months of slow sales in that segment.

Also on a side note BMW has worldwide crossed the 1 Million mark this month, and the X1 in India is only going to take it higher so high that I wonder if in due time BMW India will be atleast 50% more then Mercedes-Benz?

Think about what I said until now I have never really been wrong about much of this but BMW India is really doing everything Indians seek, and I including a few other members are a standing example of how we changed sides from Mercedes to BMW.

Audi on the other hand can forget it's dream of wanting to be #1 they just cannot catch up at the pace BMW is, I also hate the fact that they love using their late entry as an excuse which is so not true, I know back in 2004 is when they opened some of their dealerships in Bombay and a sales outlet 1 year later in Ahmedabad which was later shut down.

Regards,
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Old 13th November 2010, 14:51   #119
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Superb numbers for BMW ! The 5 is back again ! The BMW SUV's too outsell Mercs by handsome nos.
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Old 13th November 2010, 15:01   #120
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S350L - E240 - Completely agree with you, BMW is definitely doing things right in the Indian market. Their maintenance plans & customer service are definitely helping.

From personal experience, our 320 D recently had to have a replacement of the engine damper pulley, due to which there was a lot of vibration in the steering wheel, seats etc. Part cost + labor was around Rs 30 K.

The car was out of warranty being a 2007 model as we had had bought a preowned car. A single email to BMW to help consider it under goodwill warranty was answered back with a call from the customer care within 3 hours. A lady with polished manners called me up & said they will surely consider. End of the day, i get a call from Navnit Bangalore saying the part will be replaced under good will warranty !

Such service is definitely praiseworthy considering some horror stories i have heard from few Mercedes customers.
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