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Old 17th July 2011, 00:26   #451
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Prem, I can guarantee you that forward facing third row seating in the Fortuner will be better than the side facing third row in the Merlin. Try sitting in a side facing seat of the Safari for couple of hundred kms and you will appreciate the Fortuners Third row seat.
Not only is the side facing seat in the present safari a pain, even the headroom is compromised. I am not very tall but its very irritating if the head continues to brush against the headliner. What adds to it is the taper of the roof, especially at the rear, which makes the head bang against the beam. Besides this, people have a tendency to keep a watch on the direction of motion, so people sit with a constant twist of the head, later results in shoulder ache.

Now even if front facing third row is added to the new vehicle, given the dimensional constraints, of the high rear floor and not enough pasenger room at the rear, not really sure if the third row will have adequate legspace (without compromising the middle row comfort). The headroom issue will also likely to remain.

Now this project is actually taking much longer than usual. Way back in 2009 Tata motors had mentioned a schedule of launches, the new gen Safari featured in that as one of the recent releases then. Wonder what's taking it so much time. In the intervening time, there were rumours of having the engine sharing deal with Fiat, even move upto Safari/Xenon (which was being evaluated to be marketed under Fiat badging). Lot of promising stories surfaced. Wonder where they are now.
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Old 17th July 2011, 09:42   #452
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Guys, when you are discussing the 3rd row side facing seats, you need to remember one thing: Those seats are put in mainly to meet CMVR rules for classification of vehicles. If those seats are not there, then you will end up paying hell of a lot more for those vehicles - or not be able to use them as personal vehicles. Those seats are there, they are there. It's not like you are going to use these seats every other trip. If you did, then this SUV is not what you should be having.
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Old 17th July 2011, 09:53   #453
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

"One man gathers what another man spills".

I just bought a Tata-Saf yesterday. One of the "emosional" reasons was to see my daughter and my niece in the rear side-facing seats, kind of jeep style, enjoying their childhood. In a couple of drives, my daughter likes it much and my niece once fell off the seat .. hahah .. and she liked it !! That's more fun.
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Old 17th July 2011, 10:16   #454
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Not only is the side facing seat in the present safari a pain, even the headroom is compromised. I am not very tall but its very irritating if the head continues to brush against the headliner. What adds to it is the taper of the roof, especially at the rear, which makes the head bang against the beam. Besides this, people have a tendency to keep a watch on the direction of motion, so people sit with a constant twist of the head, later results in shoulder ache.

Now even if front facing third row is added to the new vehicle, given the dimensional constraints, of the high rear floor and not enough pasenger room at the rear, not really sure if the third row will have adequate legspace (without compromising the middle row comfort). The headroom issue will also likely to remain.

Now this project is actually taking much longer than usual. Way back in 2009 Tata motors had mentioned a schedule of launches, the new gen Safari featured in that as one of the recent releases then. Wonder what's taking it so much time. In the intervening time, there were rumours of having the engine sharing deal with Fiat, even move upto Safari/Xenon (which was being evaluated to be marketed under Fiat badging). Lot of promising stories surfaced. Wonder where they are now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Guys, when you are discussing the 3rd row side facing seats, you need to remember one thing: Those seats are put in mainly to meet CMVR rules for classification of vehicles. If those seats are not there, then you will end up paying hell of a lot more for those vehicles - or not be able to use them as personal vehicles. Those seats are there, they are there. It's not like you are going to use these seats every other trip. If you did, then this SUV is not what you should be having.
with both of you, Its not that the Safari cannot have a 3rd row front facing seats, Its DAMN POSSIBLE, i have spent 6 months designing one and its put to constant use when we go on long drives, many a times myself (when i am not driving) and my wife sit on this last row. There is 0% stress or strain that we undergo sitting on the 3rd row.

Link for the 3rd comfortable row in the 3L Safari Dicor

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ch-safari.html (Pics: Fabricating a 3rd Row Bench for the Safari)

The thing is When i can do it work, i think TATA's have much better R&D team who can do a better job. Lets wait, and its really surprising to see that after so many speculated months, we still are not clear about what a Merlin actually looks like.
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Old 17th July 2011, 16:45   #455
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

I second Raghavendra here. Its possible to have a real comfortable front facing thrid rows of seats in the SAFARI. Hell, if TATA were to give him two Engineers for help and some funding, he could very well design them for the MERLIN.
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Old 17th July 2011, 16:46   #456
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcar View Post
"One man gathers what another man spills".

I just bought a Tata-Saf yesterday. One of the "emosional" reasons was to see my daughter and my niece in the rear side-facing seats, kind of jeep style, enjoying their childhood. In a couple of drives, my daughter likes it much and my niece once fell off the seat .. hahah .. and she liked it !! That's more fun.
Congratulations on your new Safari and I assume, your new ownership thread is in "Assembly Line".

Very true about your daughter's feel. My daughter of 6 years always want to be there and I have put a hard control that unless her cousin or someone accompanies her, she shouldnt be there [alone] for obvious safety reasons. So funny that she started asking my colleagues to sit with her in the trunk area when there are 2 or 3 seats left out in the front

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
with both of you, Its not that the Safari cannot have a 3rd row front facing seats, Its DAMN POSSIBLE, ....
Pavan, I think, we should meet as I want to have a look at the 3rd row sitting. Can you PM your number please ?

Prem.
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Old 17th July 2011, 16:50   #457
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Although one is yet to see a Merlin in metal the issue is a well equipped one, with better interiors, 3 front facing rows of seats, SUV profile will simply make the Aria purposeless. People would simply go for the New Safari/Marlin rather than the Aria especially since its cheaper.
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Old 17th July 2011, 17:13   #458
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Although one is yet to see a Merlin in metal the issue is a well equipped one, with better interiors, 3 front facing rows of seats, SUV profile will simply make the Aria purposeless. People would simply go for the New Safari/Marlin rather than the Aria especially since its cheaper.
I agree with you partially.

1) Merlin is NOT a SUV version of Aria and similarly, Aria is NOT a MUV/X-Over version of Merlin.
2) Both has different set of users.
3) Most of TBHPians might prefer Merlin b/w Merlin & Aria because of what we know internally running in these 2, hence, the decision of Merlin given its a lot cheaper [we are speculating here]. Still Merlin AWD is not in plan. It would be similar to Safari [4X2 or 4X4 variant].
4) Another possibility - "To be" owner might decide based on whether the vehicle would be self or chauffeur driven. Most likely, a chauffeur driven wouldnt want to buy Safari or Merlin

Thats all I can think of now

Prem.

Last edited by kaviprem : 17th July 2011 at 17:14. Reason: context mismatch.
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Old 17th July 2011, 19:57   #459
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Although one is yet to see a Merlin in metal the issue is a well equipped one, with better interiors, 3 front facing rows of seats, SUV profile will simply make the Aria purposeless. People would simply go for the New Safari/Marlin rather than the Aria especially since its cheaper.
Thoughts on different lines...

1. What if Merlin carries the exact same equipment level as Safari, the only difference being "quality" of parts! So Aria will still distinguish with all those extra features.

2. We already have seen news about the new Aria 4x2 which will be approximately 11.5L ex showroom or so [assumed] which makes it cheaper / pretty much in the same price range as the Safari VX trim ! So here a customer will get both options and will choose the car "which fits them better". With Merlin base version expected at the very same range, a customer has more choices as to what they need.

Now we will have to wait and see whether TATA will reposition the Safari range once Merlin is launched.
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Old 17th July 2011, 23:44   #460
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

With the tyre moving in below the rear, I really don't see too much space for a front facing third row seat, it would be nice to be pleasantly surprised, but somehow the Safari is not a people mover - was never meant to be - it makes a syle statement better than any other vehicle in its segment and price band. The third row being pointless though a sales impacting point also gives us a clue about the kind of audience being served by the safari. The last row was always meant for occational use and that too mainly by kids so one is looking at a couple, their parents and 2 small kids or one small and one elder child travelling in great comfort and style.

In some ways the Aria third row seats are similarly just for kids.

The fun is in driving these giants and making trips with nulear family +2 or best without those 2.

Last edited by ACM : 17th July 2011 at 23:46.
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Old 18th July 2011, 11:35   #461
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Guys, lets not get carried away with the comment that my friend at ERC made about the Merlin eating the Fortuner with people bringing in things like Brand value and resale value.

Keep in mind that my conversation was with an engineer who is closely involved withthe Merlin project, and quite senior in the heirarchy. His views are purely technical in nature and if the Aria is anything to go by, then his statement does not seem overly optimistic.

Anyone who has sampled the insides of the Innova, Fortuner and Aria will vouck that the Aria is significantly better in terms of percieved quality than either of the toyotas (note- I use the wod percieved quality, how it stacks up after a 100K kms, vis a vis the toyotas is something that remains to be seen). I admire Tata Motors and am a huge fan of the Safari, but I have been quick to crticse it in equal measure when warranted- heck, I sold off my 2and a half year old Safari after I was fed up with the niggles (that was the 3.0 L block). However, looking at the great improvements that TML has made in its recent products, I have reason to feel optimistic, and yes, part of that is due to nationalistic pride . I for one am eagerly awaiting hte launch of the Merlin and if it is launched before Diwali, I plan to buy one.
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Old 18th July 2011, 14:39   #462
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
It's not like you are going to use these seats every other trip. If you did, then this SUV is not what you should be having.
+ 1 to that, they should be looking @ Xylo or Innova

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Its DAMN POSSIBLE, i have spent 6 months designing one and its put to constant use when we go on long drives
Nice work done there. But as ACM said since spare wheel is going under the belly it may be difficult, lets wait and see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
. His views are purely technical in nature and if the Aria is anything to go by, then his statement does not seem overly optimistic.
+1 Remember seeing similar comments in ARIA thread. Now we know where ARIA stands in the sales chart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
. I for one am eagerly awaiting hte launch of the Merlin and if it is launched before Diwali, I plan to buy one.
Two of my friends are in the market for Safari and I asked them to wait till october. Safari has many fan following in India but interior quality is not up to the mark. They did lot of improvements in 2010 version but If they can match ARIA quality of fit and finish I see their sales improve.

Last edited by Latheesh : 18th July 2011 at 14:53.
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Old 18th July 2011, 14:48   #463
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

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Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
Safari has many fan following in India but interior quality is not up to the mark. They did lot of improvements in 2010 version but If they can match ARIA quality of fit and finish I see their sales improve.
+1. come December, we'll be in the market for a new vehicle and this time around i was thinking Safari. however, i'm not very pleased with the interiors. if they come up with Merlin by that time, i just might buy one
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Old 18th July 2011, 14:52   #464
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

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Originally Posted by gshanky View Post
If merlin was built on the same platform as Safari I am not sure if it will have a front facing 3rd row. However if it is built on ARIA we get the 3rd row but still a bit smaller I guess.

Front facing 3rd row is better for 7 passenger travel than side facing. Hope TATA delivers the front facing 3rd row.
Merlin is just a face lift of the current safari, its not based on Aria platform.

the ALL NEW safari has been delayed and will be a completely new platform, might be on Aria!
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Old 18th July 2011, 16:26   #465
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Merlin is just a face lift of the current safari, its not based on Aria platform.

the ALL NEW safari has been delayed and will be a completely new platform, might be on Aria!
Is this statement based on information in the public domain? If so can you please give a pointer to the source? Or do you have access to inside information?
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