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Old 20th July 2011, 10:57   #526
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Hmm, new gearbox, and Dual mass flywheel!
I guess Tata will be factoring in the cost of retro fits(which will come, no doubt about that), and this may make this safari quite a bit more expensive.
Does this mean old Safari owners may have a paid option to upgrade their gearboxes ?

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Originally Posted by condor View Post
Can still be side-opening type door, but with the handle placed in the center, hidden below that strip of chrome.
If the handle is in the center, then it would be a top-open. You'd want maximum distance of the handle (effort) from the hinge (fulcrum). Safari doors are *heavy*.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajchetan View Post
Do we spot a key hole in the Chrome Strip...
Marked the Hinge and the Key Hole. I think doubt cleared about the door being top Hinged..
I can spot a similar "keyhole" like structure right in the middle of the chrome strip. Hope these are not light plays. About the hinge, I am still not convinced. The shape of the door is a typical hatch back, top hinged one , like you'd find in an Innova. The hinge that you have marked out (great find !) is the lower one -- then where would the upper one be ? If you see the rear door is not one block, but has a mild fold in the middle near the glass part. Difficult to imagine how this kind of a door opens side-ways, but maybe it's just me.

However, I'd be very happy if your words turn out right - I'd hate any "Innovavation" in the Safari ;-)
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Old 20th July 2011, 11:04   #527
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

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Originally Posted by sarcar View Post
Does this mean old Safari owners may have a paid option to upgrade their gearboxes ?
No, I mean new safari owners may get improved components via retro fit few months after they buy their car.
For example, we got new timing kit, power windows, ECU upgrade etc., as Tata found defects in the original design.
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Old 20th July 2011, 11:32   #528
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

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Originally Posted by rajchetan View Post
Do we spot a key hole in the Chrome Strip...

Marked the Hinge and the Key Hole. I think doubt cleared about the door being top Hinged..

Can anyone throw some light on the bulge above the Glass Area marked as 1 in the previous pics.... its not matching / making any sense.
This is a test mule of the Merlin. I think they might have intentionally omitted the rear door handle which will be there when the SUV is announced.
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Old 20th July 2011, 11:44   #529
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

I have a feeling the door will open both ways, the top part along with the glass (half door) will open on hinges like hatch backs for easy access with an option of opening the entire unit where the lower part will open like the existing safari.

Something similar to what Land Cruiser has or had. I hope its like that.
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Old 20th July 2011, 11:54   #530
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

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Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
Or is it a two piece design?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazmaan View Post
I have a feeling the door will open both ways
Even I thought so, but position of the hinge is too low isn't it?
Hinge and location of the footstep indicates that it is side open. But design of the upper half of the door is again confusing. Lets wait for the confirmation from scoopmasters!
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Old 20th July 2011, 11:59   #531
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Quote:
Originally Posted by tazmaan View Post
I have a feeling the door will open both ways, the top part along with the glass (half door) will open on hinges like hatch backs for easy access with an option of opening the entire unit where the lower part will open like the existing safari.

Something similar to what Land Cruiser has or had. I hope its like that.
One can't have the top half (Glass Area) open upwards if the rear opens sideways. The hinge on the RHS does indicate a sideways opening door.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcar View Post
Does this mean old Safari owners may have a paid option to upgrade their gearboxes ?


If the handle is in the center, then it would be a top-open. You'd want maximum distance of the handle (effort) from the hinge (fulcrum). Safari doors are *heavy*.


I can spot a similar "keyhole" like structure right in the middle of the chrome strip. Hope these are not light plays. About the hinge, I am still not convinced. The shape of the door is a typical hatch back, top hinged one , like you'd find in an Innova. The hinge that you have marked out (great find !) is the lower one -- then where would the upper one be ? If you see the rear door is not one block, but has a mild fold in the middle near the glass part.
The key hole does appear to be in the chrome strip and the handle could be just below that area in the chrome strip and if assisted by dampner this could still prove to be convenient.

The cylindrical area on the right does does not look to be anything but a hinge. We could all still be wrong but frankly how the door opens no longer makes a difference, with the wheel out of the way, it will look the same irrespective and be as convenient or not irrespective. Personally if feel sidway opening doors are a bit easier to manage and take less effort to close.

The retro fits that were referred to was assuming that something maynot exactly work out and need an upgrade.

But the reality is that most of the stuff mentioned including updated gearbox and DMF - Dual Mass flywheel are already running with the same engine in the Aria and that too after almost two years of internal field trials so retrofits will not be required.
I think there are being misunderstood as options that can be fitted to existing current Safari's - that may not be too easy, and would definately not be something that TATA would plan or perpare kits for.

Last edited by ACM : 20th July 2011 at 12:04.
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Old 20th July 2011, 12:23   #532
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
One can't have the top half (Glass Area) open upwards if the rear opens sideways. The hinge on the RHS does indicate a sideways opening door.
It is very much possible Honda CRV did have it see attached pics. As a matter of fact the lower placement of hinge makes sense for this kind of a design and the bulge on the center portion to make it more sturdy.

Source: Pics from Google.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by tazmaan : 20th July 2011 at 12:24. Reason: Pics source not mentioned
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Old 20th July 2011, 12:24   #533
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Hmm, new gearbox, and Dual mass flywheel!
I guess Tata will be factoring in the cost of retro fits(which will come, no doubt about that), and this may make this safari quite a bit more expensive.
If the confidence of TML engineers in the product is anything to go by, I dont think this may be the case....but then time will tell.

as regards cost, the Merlin is expected to be 1-1.25L more expensive than the equivalent Safari, so that cost hike hsuld be more than enough to cover the cost of providing updated and better performing parts.
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Old 20th July 2011, 12:32   #534
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcar View Post
If the handle is in the center, then it would be a top-open. You'd want maximum distance of the handle (effort) from the hinge (fulcrum). Safari doors are *heavy*.
But have you noticed that Safari has the lightest handle, even for those heavy doors ? I often wonder how does it all hold up.

I dont think it is really a problem. Remember, the boot of most cars opens by means of a cable mechanism. And the boot is not really light. There could be a cable to from the center of the door to the lock unit, which can release the door. And the grip in the door (center area) can be used to physically open/pull the door outwards. Most likely there's going to be a damper to assisst the door movement.
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Old 20th July 2011, 12:55   #535
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Quote:
Originally Posted by tazmaan View Post
It is very much possible Honda CRV did have it see attached pics. As a matter of fact the lower placement of hinge makes sense for this kind of a design and the bulge on the center portion to make it more sturdy.

Source: Pics from Google.
Tazmaan thanks for this prespective.

I don't think what we see looks like what we have in the CRV.

Though we see 1 hinge on the right bottom, there is surely one more above hidden either below the chrome bit or in a cladding portion above it, or within the width of the door itself.

The current safari does have a hinge above as well as for the sideways movement, and one lower down in the exact same place as what we see visible in the snaps.
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Old 20th July 2011, 15:40   #536
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
But have you noticed that Safari has the lightest handle, even for those heavy doors ? I often wonder how does it all hold up.
There is a hydraulic push-out assist for the rear door.

In general, I spent part of my lunch-hour looking at the rear hinges of my Safari. The hinges in the current design are
(a) not very visible
(b) kind of on the outside of the D-pillar

I noticed that the curvature of the rear door in the current Safari and the one in the picture are pretty much same so that should not be a reason why you cannot have side opening doors (i.e I retract my earlier statement !)
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Old 20th July 2011, 15:56   #537
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcar View Post
There is a hydraulic push-out assist for the rear door.
This h.p-o.a unit is there for the rear door. Not the passenger doors. Under normal usage, even for the rear door, this actually slows down the normal speed of opening the door. So there's more load on the handle (since you are holding the handle as you pull the door open, and the push-out assist is actually preventing the door for opening quickly).

Even for the other 4 doors - the doors are heavy, and yet operated by very light door handles.
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Old 20th July 2011, 16:05   #538
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

@condor: On flat surfaces the rear wheel mounted on the rear door plays as a puller so one does'nt has to really pull the rear door out, just unlock it and it kinda opens automatically due to added weight of rear wheel. This happens on my 7 year old Safari with leaking hydraulic on the rear door.
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Old 20th July 2011, 16:12   #539
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

Not impresed with the looks, Something more radical and futuristic is what was needed, after 13 years this is what they come up with?
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Old 20th July 2011, 16:36   #540
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pic on pg34 & pg41

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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
@condor: On flat surfaces the rear wheel mounted on the rear door plays as a puller so one does'nt has to really pull the rear door out, just unlock it and it kinda opens automatically ..
yaar, I have this feature on my Sumo. And if I let it open on it's own it takes so much time that I could do a couple of push-ups till then

No, there is no problem in the unit I have.

I think we are going a lil OT. Let's wait for the Safari to come so that we can see how the rear door opens on that ..
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