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Old 22nd August 2011, 09:17   #631
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Probably it is just a plastic coverup thingy for time being .may be they will replace it with the rails as in safari now. I dont think it serves any purpose.

Air vents?
It looks like the aftermarket weather sheilds which we fit on front windows in cars. how on the earth would air enter through that being a closed window i dont think it requires a weather shield either

Last edited by geeash : 22nd August 2011 at 09:18.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 09:36   #632
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Force one is still a long way from being a serious threat to any of the Indian SUVs. People wont simply pump 11 lacs of their money into an unproven, unheard brand or product, also there's the big question mark of a poor distribution and sales network.

I think it will be a battle between the Merlin and the W201, the revamped old warhorse vs the contemporary new star!!
Agree on the part that the Force One wont be much of a competition. But as far as my knowledge goes and is being discussed in the relevant thread, the new Mahindra is being positioned above the Scorpio, ie in the 13-15lakh exshowroom price range, which would put it just higher than the Safari and more in Aria territory.

Though I hope Tata do drop the Safari prices a bit, over the range, as at present the Scorpio remains about 1lakh cheaper than the Safari.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 10:36   #633
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

does anyone have information of a possible launch date? as per my sources, teh Merlin testing is over and it is signed off for production, which means that the launch should be withing the next 2-4 weeks, but no news on it so far
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Old 22nd August 2011, 10:39   #634
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
... the new Mahindra is being positioned above the Scorpio, ie in the 13-15lakh exshowroom price range, which would put it just higher than the Safari and more in Aria territory.
The new Scorp is a new one, going by what is available so far. The Merlin looks more like a refreshed Safari than a new Safari. Hence should be priced between current Safari & the new Scorp. A little reduction in price of the current Safari will create room for the new vehicle while giving a push to the old one.

The Aria will remain in a different segment without direct competition from Mahindra.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 11:09   #635
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by condor View Post
The new Scorp is a new one, going by what is available so far. The Merlin looks more like a refreshed Safari than a new Safari. Hence should be priced between current Safari & the new Scorp. A little reduction in price of the current Safari will create room for the new vehicle while giving a push to the old one.

The Aria will remain in a different segment without direct competition from Mahindra.
I am sorry, but I dont completely get you.

As far as my understanding is, the Merlin will replace the current Safari all together and not co-exist with it.

And the Mahindra W201 will slot in above the Scorpio and not replace it. May be a bit of overlap between the top end Scorpio 4WD ATs and the base models of the new W201 will exist, just like there is now a bit of overlap in the price of the Aria and Safari.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 14:18   #636
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

^^ No, the Merlin will NOT replace the existing Safari soon. It will take a long time. The only thing is that 4X4 is available only with VX edition of current Safari though this has been the situation for a few months now.
Merlin should be placed slightly above the price brackets of each editions of current Safari, but may not have all corresponding editions like L, E, G & V.
I would expect only GX & VX having 4X2 and 4X4 in both the editions to maintain a status symbol for Merlin.

Just my thought except the first line on replacement.

Prem.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 14:44   #637
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by kaviprem View Post
^^ No, the Merlin will NOT replace the existing Safari soon. It will take a long time. The only thing is that 4X4 is available only with VX edition of current Safari though this has been the situation for a few months now.
Merlin should be placed slightly above the price brackets of each editions of current Safari, but may not have all corresponding editions like L, E, G & V.
I would expect only GX & VX having 4X2 and 4X4 in both the editions to maintain a status symbol for Merlin.

Just my thought except the first line on replacement.

Prem.
I am sorry, but that would make Tata the craziest car maker in all of history. Even Porsche with their complicated 911 range have never done done something as crazy as what you are suggesting.

Do you mean to suggest Tata will sell, two cars, which are largely the same to a common man, with a price difference of just a few thousand bucks???!!!! Why???For what reason???

I dont see any way as to how the Safari and Merlin can co-exist. The only possibility is the Merlin will replace on the GX and VX Safari only, while the Safari will continue in LX and EX variants. But again I really dont see why Tata would need to do such a thing. All this will do is split the volumes between the old and the new Safari, which is foolins in my view.

Selling an LX version of the Merlin at about 8lakh exshowroom poses no problem for the image of the Merlin at all. Both the Scorpio and Innova have cheaper versions, which are used as taxis, but people still buy the top end versions without much issue at all.

Last edited by julupani : 22nd August 2011 at 14:46.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 14:53   #638
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

^^ Buddy, read my update properly please. I didnt say, few thousands above. It may be few of tens of thousands above too ! I dont know or none [most ?] of us know now.
But, all we know for sure from the dealer and factory updates is that the current Safari and Merlin WILL CO-EXIST for a good amount of time.
Taxis - We all have crossed this discussion a long while ago that Safari/Merlin is not for Taxi market. Its a clear SUV range of product, not a MUV or people mover like Innova/Scorpio. Lets not start drawing a comparison chart in this thread please.

Prem.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 15:05   #639
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by kaviprem View Post
^^ Buddy, read my update properly please. I didnt say, few thousands above. It may be few of tens of thousands above too ! I dont know or none [most ?] of us know now.
But, all we know for sure from the dealer and factory updates is that the current Safari and Merlin WILL CO-EXIST for a good amount of time.
Taxis - We all have crossed this discussion a long while ago that Safari/Merlin is not for Taxi market. Its a clear SUV range of product, not a MUV or people mover like Innova/Scorpio. Lets not start drawing a comparison chart in this thread please.

Prem.
By a few, I didnt mean two or three, I meant forty or fifty. Even then I dont see any possibilty of having both a Safari VX and a Merlin VX together on the price list.

The only possibility of the Safari and Merlin together, is the Merlin above 10lakhs and the Safari below it. And this will happen only if the Merlin cant be brought down to a price tag as low as 7.5lakhs, where the current Safari starts with its LX version.

Remember these cars are not completely different beings, but largely the same. Its completely obvious that the Merlin is a major facelift to the Safari and not a brand new car. It would be like Maruti selling the old Swift along side the new one.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 15:16   #640
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Well the old Alto (M 800) did sell along side the new one (current Alto) and the newest (A Star) all together for a long time.

The old Santro does sell along side the new one (I10) and it's been a long while. Just the name keeps changing. There are a lot of examples of these in the India market. The Fiesta Classic, Lancer and Cedia, Octavia and Laura, Accent and Verna being a few more.

There just may be those who want the rear wheel being the rear insite of the clear advantage of a different design as in the newer (Safari Merili) (the Merlin is clearly a project name and the Safari name will continue for sure.).
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Old 22nd August 2011, 15:19   #641
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If Maruti can do it, Ford can do it, Hyundai can do it, what's wrong in Tata doing it? Actually they already are doing it with the Indica and Sumo I guess.

Like Prem said, the current safari might be pushed down a li'l and they may stop a variant or 2. That will create enough of a gap for the Merlin to squeeze in with its 2-3 variants.

So effectively Tata will have a SUV offering starting at 7-8 and extending all the way till 14-15, with the higher paying junta getting a 'improved' product.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 15:42   #642
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Well the old Alto (M 800) did sell along side the new one (current Alto) and the newest (A Star) all together for a long time.

The old Santro does sell along side the new one (I10) and it's been a long while. Just the name keeps changing. There are a lot of examples of these in the India market. The Fiesta Classic, Lancer and Cedia, Octavia and Laura, Accent and Verna being a few more.

There just may be those who want the rear wheel being the rear insite of the clear advantage of a different design as in the newer (Safari Merili) (the Merlin is clearly a project name and the Safari name will continue for sure.).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
If Maruti can do it, Ford can do it, Hyundai can do it, what's wrong in Tata doing it? Actually they already are doing it with the Indica and Sumo I guess.

Like Prem said, the current safari might be pushed down a li'l and they may stop a variant or 2. That will create enough of a gap for the Merlin to squeeze in with its 2-3 variants.

So effectively Tata will have a SUV offering starting at 7-8 and extending all the way till 14-15, with the higher paying junta getting a 'improved' product.
In which of the cases, which you have so enthusiastically sighted, did the old and new cars look so much alike as the Merlin and the Safari do??

And what is the price difference between a M800, Alto and an A-Star. Are they even remotely similarly priced?? Are the i10 and Santro, or Fiesta Classic and Fiesta, or Accent and Verna in competition with each other??

So as of now as I see it there are four options.

1. Aria and Merlin be in competition with each other.
2. Safari and Merlin be in competition with each other.
3. Safari continues in LX and EX variant, while the GX and VX variants give way to the Merlin.
4. Merlin replaces the Safari completely.

Only the third and fourth options are even probable. The only reason why Tata would want to go for option 3 instead of 4 is if the Merlin cant be sold at 7.5L ex-showroom prices.

Last edited by julupani : 22nd August 2011 at 15:46.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 15:52   #643
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

To a guy eyeing only the SUV's mainly the New Merlin Safari will look sufficently different from the Safari 2.2 unlike between the Safari 3.0 and 2.2 dicors which looked
quite similar.

The Lancer and Cedia too are quite similar in that way as also the Santro and I10 and for that matter the M800 and Alto but then when one looks closely there are a lot of differences and the new merlin in that manner will be sufficently different from the current ones. Infact the old and new Indica which are totally different cars for all practical purposes look very similar and both exist concurrently.

So it is not really about how similar a vehicle is but about how different it is.

That said am not privy to TATA plans and so we are all just speculating while eagery awaiting the Safari Merlin.

Its fun to pay "marketing director fiction" and I do enjoy it - but now lets wait for more concrete news from those really on the know on the inside.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 16:18   #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani
In which of the cases, which you have so enthusiastically sighted, did the old and new cars look so much alike as the Merlin and the Safari do??.
We still don't have clean pictures of Merlin, front end or the interiors. So 'how much' different or alike cannot be gauged. I have a feeling Tata might give the Merlin an Aria-ish interior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani
And what is the price difference between a M800, Alto and an A-Star. Are they even remotely similarly priced?? Are the i10 and Santro, or Fiesta Classic and Fiesta, or Accent and Verna in competition with each other??.
Even if there is some competition, what harm does it do to Tata as long as its amongst their own models? They still sell a vehicle. Look at Maruti's offerings, don't their products compete with each other? And its often that a customer is drawn in by the base price but eventually goes for a higher spec'd version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani
So as of now as I see it there are four options.

1. Aria and Merlin be in competition with each other.
2. Safari and Merlin be in competition with each other.
3. Safari continues in LX and EX variant, while the GX and VX variants give way to the Merlin.
4. Merlin replaces the Safari completely.

Only the third and fourth options are even probable. The only reason why Tata would want to go for option 3 instead of 4 is if the Merlin cant be sold at 7.5L ex-showroom prices.
Lets wait and see what Tata finally does.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 16:27   #645
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Whatever it is TATA Merlin will defintely be a better product if not the best . Looking at the way TATA is going , Aria , new Indica , all seem to be better and quality issues seems to have dropped drastically . Lets hope for the best from our global manufacturer and keep our fingers crossed . Iam sure they are listening and will not disappoint .
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