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Old 2nd September 2011, 16:08   #706
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
A decade ago, Tata launched the Indica prematurely, without adequately testing the product or the manufacturing processes and much against the advice of their own production deptt. In the process, they burned their hands and were forced to launch the improved V2 later. It seems after that bitter experience, the management decided to adopt the policy of always erring on the side of caution, resulting in delayed launches. This is good as well as bad. The customer gets a better product (compared to earlier Tata products) but sometimes, as in the case of Vista which was designed in 2004, the product is obsolete at launch itself.

They should explore the possibility of producing a lot more prototypes so that testing can be done in shorter duration.
Dear Sir,

No offence meant but if TATA had learned their lesson at the time of first indica, then sumo grande - grande mk II wouldn't have happened. Similarly safari 2.2 would have been niggle-free product and they would have developed their own quadrajet by now. I personally love TATA products and feel they have matured a lot but still fact is fact, they are still below industry average
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Old 2nd September 2011, 16:24   #707
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
you are right and then wrong.

Aria's platform would be used for the NEW SAFARI.

Merlin is not the NEW SAFARI, its just a face-lift and cosmetic change.

NEW SAFARI is good 3-5 years away, Merlin is a stop gap filler, till the NEW SAFARI is unveiled!

please read each and every post, go through the whole thread before commenting and replying.

have a nice day and drive safe, oh yes....please wear the seat belt too!
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Originally Posted by Rahulk76 View Post
Seems like a improved product. A generalist view
TML MAYBE be providing

1. Rack n Pinion steering.
2. Same chassis as aria (hydrofoam based).
3. option for 3 row seating (front faced)
4. shares same engine and gearbox with Aria
5. Disc brakes all around.
The chassis is based on Aria. Therefore its new as per my information.

Lets see what gels out of this Merlin
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Old 2nd September 2011, 16:25   #708
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Merlin is not the NEW SAFARI, its just a face-lift and cosmetic change.
If so, how come those with access to inside information tell us that Merlin is much lighter and better handling than the existing Safari? Please refer to post nos. 229 and 237. X2 chassis is claimed to use hydroformed members for weight reduction.
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Old 2nd September 2011, 17:15   #709
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
If so, how come those with access to inside information tell us that Merlin is much lighter and better handling than the existing Safari? Please refer to post nos. 229 and 237. X2 chassis is claimed to use hydroformed members for weight reduction.
you can add me in the above catagory!

i cant give you all the information, i would again repeat that Merlin is NOT the NEW SAFARI. wait for atleast 3-5 years for that.

Merlin is a big improvement on the current safari.
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Old 2nd September 2011, 17:33   #710
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
you can add me in the above catagory!

Merlin is a big improvement on the current safari.
Gladly, and would therefore appreciate specifics on how the Merlin is better (interiors, ride/handling/steering, fit & finish) etc. I see a lot of "Could be" and "May be" from the inside sources, which doesn't really go beyond speculation. And a static date/time-frame of launch would be the most appreciated, IMHO

Last edited by VeluM : 2nd September 2011 at 17:34.
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Old 2nd September 2011, 17:34   #711
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
you can add me in the above catagory!
I have no hesitation in doing that, Mr well-connected!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Merlin is a big improvement on the current safari.
Aren't you contradicting yourself? On the one hand you say that Merlin is "just a face-lift and cosmetic change" but on the other hand you say it is a big improvement on the current Safari.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
i cant give you all the information, i would again repeat that Merlin is NOT the NEW SAFARI. wait for atleast 3-5 years for that.
Well, TML has already announced publicly that it will launch a new SUV positioned above the Safari. Not able to find the press report right now.
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Old 2nd September 2011, 17:50   #712
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90


Aren't you contradicting yourself? On the one hand you say that Merlin is "just a face-lift and cosmetic change" but on the other hand you say it is a big improvement on the current Safari.


cant a face lift be a big improvement on the current vehicle?



Well, TML has already announced publicly that it will launch a new SUV positioned above the Safari. Not able to find the press report right now


Merlin is the NEW SUV, but not the NEW SAFARI!

Last edited by Parm : 2nd September 2011 at 17:54.
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Old 2nd September 2011, 18:10   #713
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
cant a face lift be a big improvement on the current vehicle?
The words used by you in post no. 705 were "...it's just a facelift..." implying thereby that there aren't any substantive changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Merlin is the NEW SUV, but not the NEW SAFARI!
Merlin was described in that report as the Safari upgrade, not the new SUV which, according to that report, will be above Safari and is not to be confused with the Aria either.
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Old 2nd September 2011, 18:21   #714
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
The words used by you in post no. 705 were "...it's just a facelift..." implying thereby that there aren't any substantive changes.

Merlin was described in that report as the Safari upgrade, not the new SUV which, according to that report, will be above Safari and is not to be confused with the Aria either.
there is a difference in saying "just a face lift" and "only a face lift".

Merlin is just a face lift on the current safari with improvments on where current safari lagged!

the NEW Safari is still a few years away.

(please dont say i wrote 3-5 years earlier and now im saying few years!)

(we can go around in circles with our replies)
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Old 2nd September 2011, 21:50   #715
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by harimakesh View Post
Tata OR Mahindra both in comparison with any globally respectable quality in fit and finish have not acquired adequacy yet.
Why just Tata and Mahindra, What did Toyota do with Etios?
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The difference among them is Tata has sarkari laid back attitde to go slow on anything, on the other hand Mahindra relatively quick/ punctual.
Totally agree. TM takes a lot more time to introduce new products to fill the gaps. To compete with international brands with many existing products, TM need to reduce turn around time quickly, with out losing quality, which calls for more investments in R&D which will affect the profitability. So finding the right balance is difficult.....
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Old 2nd September 2011, 23:26   #716
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
Why just Tata and Mahindra, What did Toyota do with Etios?.

Licence Raj acclimatized Indian Manufacturers show others how to deteriorate and exploit Indian car buyers in India.

No where Etios will become a successful product for Toyota except In India.

Charging 1L premium for puny 1.3 diesel engine for hatch back car and remove Airbags/Alloy wheels features is a cheating trick that Indian companies like Maruti, Tata taught others in India. Globally no where you find these type of explotation in automobile scene.

Sorry for OT

Last edited by harimakesh : 2nd September 2011 at 23:28.
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Old 3rd September 2011, 12:44   #717
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
NEW SAFARI is good 3-5 years away, Merlin is a stop gap filler, till the NEW SAFARI is unveiled!
Whoa...looks like Safari is set to beat Amby as the longest production model in India...! Wonder when will these guys stop beating a dead horse and come up with new models. I sincerely hope JLR doesn't falling into Tata's pace of churning out new models.

Last edited by alabjarus : 3rd September 2011 at 12:46.
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Old 3rd September 2011, 13:00   #718
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by alabjarus View Post
Whoa...looks like Safari is set to beat Amby as the longest production model in India...! Wonder when will these guys stop beating a dead horse and come up with new models. I sincerely hope JLR doesn't falling into Tata's pace of churning out new models.
Whoa, there. There are a lot more cars which have been running for a lot longer. The Ambassador has been around for more than 50 years now. The Safari came only in 1998. Not to mention the Maruti 800 which is basically the same since 1986. The Alto is unbelievably similar to what it was when it was launched in 2000.

Though they should have brought in a new model a couple of years back already, but it did make a major jump with the introduction of the 3.0Dicor and then the 2.2L dicor. And now another major jump with the Merlin.
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Old 3rd September 2011, 13:14   #719
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Whoa, there. There are a lot more cars which have been running for a lot longer. The Ambassador has been around for more than 50 years now. The Safari came only in 1998. Not to mention the Maruti 800 which is basically the same since 1986. The Alto is unbelievably similar to what it was when it was launched in 2000.

Though they should have brought in a new model a couple of years back already, but it did make a major jump with the introduction of the 3.0Dicor and then the 2.2L dicor. And now another major jump with the Merlin.
Well, i really cannot say, who of us making all these comments on this thread will buy the New Merlin, Definately i would love to put my money into this product. Talking about old wine in new bottle, C'mon guys, why dont we remember the Jeep Willys, We still get it in a new disguise Most of the present manufactured cars by leading manufacturer in India is only a face lifted or Engine Lifted (Other manufacturer engine) products.

The Safari has been the best ever Indian Made SUV by far, No 2 ways about debating about this. I drool everytime seeing most of my friends drive the Safari, for me it beats all the Indian SUV's by a big margin, I am not worried about sales figures, even the BMW / Mercs sell in small quantity. The debate about Merlin being the New Safari or a different product is irrelevent to many guys like me, as i like to see Quality/ comfort (VFM) which only TATA products can give.

Lets give a fair chance for this product to roll out, and later lets start shooting our views. Dont jump the gun too early.

Assumptions is the mother of all *****
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Old 3rd September 2011, 13:56   #720
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

A lot of people talk about old wine in new bottle. Most comments make sense. But how many have actually tasted the old wine and how many are actually commenting based upon hear say.
Some say stop beating a dead horse. Well it doesnt look dead to me. The finer details of the upgrade are still unknown. There are a lot of known niggles in the current Safari.

TASS service network and A.S.S has improved by leaps and bounds. Where they lack is, in QC. If they have managed to fix that in this Merlin upgrade then its well worth the money. I believe that will be a quantum jump for TML and the Safari.
So lets wait and watch.
Having driven the Safari for all its worth I might just upgrade my current Safari to the Merlin if they have taken care of the niggles and QC and over all fit and finish.

Those expecting a Tata to be a Toyota can continue dreaming.

EDIT: I just saw the Safari website after years. It says fording capability of 300mm. They must be joking. Even a Maruti Alto can ford through 300mm. This is hilarious.

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 3rd September 2011 at 14:03.
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