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Old 29th September 2011, 12:58   #961
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Mahindra has given Tata a huge headache with the pricing of XUV500. If Safari prices are being reduced, it's probably a good indicator of how the Merlin is going to be priced. Now, if Merlin is not the "all new Safari" and the "all new Safari" is coming later, then its pricing is also going to be a headache for Tata.
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Old 29th September 2011, 15:51   #962
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

The XUV500 being launched now is brilliant for the market. Now Tata will have to position the Merlin carefully and more importantly cheaper!!
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Old 29th September 2011, 15:51   #963
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
Well well, I would any day put my money on Ratan Tata than on Anand Mahindra. Nothing against his competence, but sorry Mr. Mahindra, you should immediately sack your chief designer and get rid of that saber tooth grill!
Hey there AK!

I believe the forum is in agreement that TMLs UV designs have been ... whats the work im searching for - sophisticated perhaps ? ... in comparison with what M&M has been dishing out. One expects that the Merlin will be further evidence to support this belief.

At the end of the day one must acknowledge the fact that a large section of the janta does have a penchant for over-the-top styling. The critics have been and will always be a minority, as opinion makers and more importantly as customers.

This is where I get the impression that M&M has its fingers on the pulse of the average Indian consumer (in their segment of operation) in terms of styling, powertrain, features, dimenison and the most important factor of them all - pricing.

I see a log of posts bashing the designers @ M&M for what they did with the XUV. Perhaps im repeating what I had posted - they have dished out a slightly more sophisticated version of what the Indian motoring public has been lapping up, ie the Bolero, Scorpio & Xylo. One only needs to look at the sales volume of Sumo+safari vis-a-vis bolero+scorpio to make an informed guess on which of the two tycoons to back!

Both Mr Tata & Mr Mahindra are worthy of praise as stalwarts of the Indian automotive Industry. Its evident that are driven by passion for what they do and the market they operate in.
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Old 29th September 2011, 16:12   #964
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
Mahindra has given Tata a huge headache with the pricing of XUV500. If Safari prices are being reduced, it's probably a good indicator of how the Merlin is going to be priced. Now, if Merlin is not the "all new Safari" and the "all new Safari" is coming later, then its pricing is also going to be a headache for Tata.
XUV 500 is 3L cheaper to Aria . TATA ruined the Aria party instantly with its insane pricing. Mahindra has priced the XUV reasonable.

TATA's Grande GX is 8.7L if some one stretches the budget with 2L they have XUV which is better product. Same goes with Safari . TATA will have problem in recovering its lost investments of Nano with its recent price increase across all passenger models with not much of value additions to them.

Now XUV pricing will force TATA to ensure Merlin/Safari top line must go below 10L for what they offer.
For prospective buyers trend is good

Last edited by harimakesh : 29th September 2011 at 16:14.
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Old 29th September 2011, 16:55   #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harimakesh
XUV 500 is 3L cheaper to Aria . TATA ruined the Aria party instantly with its insane pricing. Mahindra has priced the XUV reasonable.

Now XUV pricing will force TATA to ensure Merlin/Safari top line must go below 10L for what they offer.
For prospective buyers trend is good
the XUV pricing while astonishing is only temporary. Will have to wait and see what they finally price it at after two months. Singing praise at this point is well, pointless.

I don't think this will impact Tata's pricing strategy. They haven't reduced the prices of any vehicle in the recent past, as far as I know. We also know that the XUV is not an off roarer, though designed like one merely to please the aspirations of the buyers. For someone truly interested in an SUV, the Safari still makes sense, although true off roaders will still look at the Jeeps/Gypsys.

Finally, the XUV inaugural pricing overlaps with the Scorpio as well. I don't see Mahindra dropping the Scorpio prices when the recently launched bare bones version is still fresh in our minds as being overpriced. Rest assured, the gap between the Aria and XUV will close shortly, and widen between the XUV and Safari.
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Old 29th September 2011, 17:55   #966
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by VeluM View Post
I don't think this will impact Tata's pricing strategy. They haven't reduced the prices of any vehicle in the recent past, as far as I know.
They have also never priced their vehicles ridiculously like Aria in the past. I think they will definitely take a note of XUV's pricing. If they want Aria to be a success, they will have to price it lower and Merlin has to be priced accordingly.
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Old 29th September 2011, 18:12   #967
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by VeluM View Post
the XUV pricing while astonishing is only temporary. Will have to wait and see what they finally price it at after two months. Singing praise at this point is well, pointless.

I don't think this will impact Tata's pricing strategy. They haven't reduced the prices of any vehicle in the recent past, as far as I know. We also know that the XUV is not an off roarer, though designed like one merely to please the aspirations of the buyers. For someone truly interested in an SUV, the Safari still makes sense, although true off roaders will still look at the Jeeps/Gypsys.

Finally, the XUV inaugural pricing overlaps with the Scorpio as well. I don't see Mahindra dropping the Scorpio prices when the recently launched bare bones version is still fresh in our minds as being overpriced. Rest assured, the gap between the Aria and XUV will close shortly, and widen between the XUV and Safari.
Tata has made the Aria to have become their Jazz in terms of Pricing. Aria doesnot sell purely due to 20-25% inflated prices. With their Sterling pounds earning through JLR Tata can absorb the loss and pretend they have not made any blunder with Aria's pricing Strategy.

TATA currently has three PURE sales duds

Aria is not selling
Nano is not selling at all
Grande is not selling

Now in agressively competitive 2011 informed buyers filled Indian auto market, Tata cannot idle and expect repeat of their old glories i.e Sumo making fastest 100K unit sale and the likes in their least competitive era.

Last edited by harimakesh : 29th September 2011 at 18:13.
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Old 29th September 2011, 18:51   #968
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by cediafan View Post
They have also never priced their vehicles ridiculously like Aria in the past. I think they will definitely take a note of XUV's pricing. If they want Aria to be a success, they will have to price it lower and Merlin has to be priced accordingly.
Aria is Tata's flagship vehicle - so I don't think Tata is going to cut its price. It's there to build Tata's brand image. And I would say Tata has succeeded in a way - the only complaint against the Aria seems to be its price and not its quality (or quality vis-a-vis price).

The Merlin on the other hand does not have that "burden" and it could (should) be priced to under-cut the XUV500.
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Old 29th September 2011, 19:01   #969
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
Aria is Tata's flagship vehicle - so I don't think Tata is going to cut its price. It's there to build Tata's brand image. And I would say Tata has succeeded in a way - the only complaint against the Aria seems to be its price and not its quality (or quality vis-a-vis price).

The Merlin on the other hand does not have that "burden" and it could (should) be priced to under-cut the XUV500.
Aria is not Tata's flagship product. If anything, I think Nano is Tata's flagship product. Who determines a product's success? It is the end user who decides whether a product is successful or not. In Aria's case, the market has clearly given its vote. It has been almost an year and Aria has not been able to go upto three figure sales. I agree that Merlin is not directly pitted against XUV but it will still have to priced sensibly. Safari sales are going down and if Tatas think that they will fix the niggles and make some (substantial?) improvements and charge a couple of lacs more than Safari then they are in for another rap on the knuckles.
Remember that the 10-15 lacs space will get crowded. Korando might fall in this bracket and Duster might fall in the lower end of this bracket. This space is exactly placed like the small hatch segment a couple years back. No one can get away with a 'premium' pricing anymore!

Last edited by cediafan : 29th September 2011 at 19:10.
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Old 29th September 2011, 21:32   #970
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by cediafan View Post
Aria is not Tata's flagship product. If anything, I think Nano is Tata's flagship product. Who determines a product's success? It is the end user who decides whether a product is successful or not. In Aria's case, the market has clearly given its vote. It has been almost an year and Aria has not been able to go upto three figure sales.
Disagree. Nano is not what Tata is using to build their premium/brand image - though Nano has certainly helped them to demonstrate their engineering/packaging capabilities. It's the Aria which Tata is using to prove that they can deliver a "premium" vehicle with quality.

Also, the "failure" of Aria is greatly overstated. Does every Tata vehicle have to be selling in 1000+ numbers to be considered a success? Please compare the Aria sales to the similarly priced competition - you will find that in most months, the Aria manages to outsell almost everything (Captiva, Yeti, Endeavour) except Fortuner. Which means people looking for a Rs.15-20L vehicle find a good value proposition in the Aria (features/quality-wise). That's the "vote" of the market looking for a Rs.15-20L car. People looking for a Rs.10-15L vehicle will naturally look elsewhere.

Last edited by StarrySky : 29th September 2011 at 21:35.
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Old 29th September 2011, 21:40   #971
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by cediafan View Post
Aria is not Tata's flagship product. If anything, I think Nano is Tata's flagship product. Who determines a product's success? It is the end user who decides whether a product is successful or not. In Aria's case, the market has clearly given its vote. It has been almost an year and Aria has not been able to go upto three figure sales. I agree that Merlin is not directly pitted against XUV but it will still have to priced sensibly. Safari sales are going down and if Tatas think that they will fix the niggles and make some (substantial?) improvements and charge a couple of lacs more than Safari then they are in for another rap on the knuckles.
Remember that the 10-15 lacs space will get crowded. Korando might fall in this bracket and Duster might fall in the lower end of this bracket. This space is exactly placed like the small hatch segment a couple years back. No one can get away with a 'premium' pricing anymore!
Is it a typo or you really meant it?
AFAIK, ARIA is doing in three figures every month (apart from one month) and for that category it is doing in decent numbers.
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Old 29th September 2011, 21:47   #972
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by architect View Post
^^ M&M's effort at the XUV 500 has been about building a new vehicle totally from ground-up.

Tata, on the other hand, seems to have tried a mix / match of what they have in the Safari and what they seem to have developed from the Aria.
I agree but Aria is a totally developed from scratch product. Especially the chassis design and all the calculations(hardpoints) have been freshly calculated. Before I go OT, back to topic of merlin.
lets not speculate more about Merlin, untill we hear about it officially. As such I am too tempted to believe the pics that leaked (merlin in a showroom) could be the real merlin, as it turned out to be in the case of XUV500.
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Old 29th September 2011, 23:10   #973
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

If TATA does not rethink about it's pricing strategy, about the ARIA and the Merlin, both are doomed in my humble opinion.
The Indian market as we will all agree is fiercely price driven and in that count M&M has come out with a shocker with the 500! For 11.95L you get it all...space, looks (very subjective of course!), and almost all the bells and whistles you can think off. Which other car will give you this much VFM in the Indian auto space today?
I specifically talked about the FWD W8 because lets face it, the 4X4 market is a rather niche market and if one has to look at volume sales, then 4X2 is what will be your mainstay. After the XUV pricing, no one, other than the most ardent fan is going to look any further, specially 1.5L-3L further at the Aria!
Now, the Merlin is the next thing I am personally looking out for. Of course, even if the prices are comparative, the fact that the Merlin has jump seats in the third row as compared to the regular seats in the XUV will probably play in the minds of quite a few prospective buyers as will the lack of some of the bells and whistles that we are inclined to favour.
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Old 29th September 2011, 23:12   #974
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by cediafan View Post
I think they will definitely take a note of XUV's pricing. If they want Aria to be a success, they will have to price it lower and Merlin has to be priced accordingly.
The XUV's prices are introductory prices. They will be revised, so we'll discuss the strategy then.

Merlin is not launched, there are no details apart from insiders generously contributing on TBHP, and we have no clue how it will be priced.

However, since it is learnt (again from the various sources) that Merlin will replace the top two versions of the Safari, we probably could expect prices to be similar to the GX and VX versions of the Safari. Not that bad, IMHO, for the improvements on offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harimakesh View Post
Tata has made the Aria to have become their Jazz in terms of Pricing.
TATA currently has three PURE sales duds
Aria is not selling
Nano is not selling at all
Grande is not selling
Aria is selling, and can't really be compared to the Jazz. Nano is not selling anywhere near as well as expected and the Grande isn't selling to well either. Not disagreeing on these two.

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Originally Posted by cediafan View Post
Aria is not Tata's flagship product.
It is, because it is Tata's most expensive and premium product. JLR are different brands altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cediafan View Post
It has been almost an year and Aria has not been able to go upto three figure sales. I agree that Merlin is not directly pitted against XUV but it will still have to priced sensibly. Safari sales are going down and if Tatas think that they will fix the niggles and make some (substantial?) improvements and charge a couple of lacs more than Safari then they are in for another rap on the knuckles.
As mentioned by v1kram, Aria has been doing around 200 per month sales with the exception of one month. It is also outselling most of its competition.

Since the Merlin prices are not out yet, why speculate and get upset about the purely speculative pricing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1kram View Post
Is it a typo or you really meant it?
AFAIK, ARIA is doing in three figures every month (apart from one month) and for that category it is doing in decent numbers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
I agree but Aria is a totally developed from scratch product. Especially the chassis design and all the calculations(hardpoints) have been freshly calculated.
Exactly. And since the Merlin uses the Aria Chassis, a completely new front suspension and Much improved underpinnings generally, the "Re-worked" 2.2 engine and all new interiors, there is really nothing old apart from the body shell, which they have worked upon too. Remember that the XUV500 also uses the Scorpio's engine, but power/torque are now comparable to that of the current Safari's.

The All New Safari will be launched later, and that probably will use the same chassis and other elements as the Merlin, but will probably have a new body-shell as well. That could then be compared with the XUV500, but again only once we know what it is all about (detailed specs).

IMHO, an improved Safari is what every Safari owner and aspirant wanted. Merlin is going a step further with improved underpinnings and handling (from reports), and new & improved interiors with much better quality. If they price it the same as the current GX and VX models, then I think I (as an aspirant) would be happy.

Current Safari owners can contribute as to whether or not Pal's revelations fulfil their requirements of the improved Safari - IF priced at the current GX/VX range.
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Old 30th September 2011, 02:00   #975
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by neel385 View Post
If TATA does not rethink about it's pricing strategy, about the ARIA and the Merlin, both are doomed in my humble opinion.
+1 to it! Very true statement. I am sure Safari, for what ever it was, it is, I think it was worshipped for the fact that, it was India's first luxury SUV(next to sierra) and in that time there was no Scorpio(correct me if I am wrong). There was a considerable shift in market once the Scorpio gen 1 was launched. But today, Scorpio and Safari hold lead in the SUV market over fortuner/endeavour/Pajeros/Vitara because there was no competition in the price band within which a Safari or a scorpio was available. Now the real competition starts as XUV with its very advanced and attractive interiors and features being exactly positioned within this band. Lets see where the Merlin is placed. I am sure the marketing and sales people in Tata will be by now rethinking their price strategy to compete XUV. Also remember, if Force one manages to push some good advertisements, it can punch a hole in Tata's pocket.
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