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Old 30th September 2011, 09:36   #976
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by VeluM View Post

The All New Safari will be launched later, and that probably will use the same chassis and other elements as the Merlin, but will probably have a new body-shell as well. That could then be compared with the XUV500, but again only once we know what it is all about (detailed specs).

.
I think the XUV is a monoque design(first indigenous one).
Safari and Scorpio are ladder on frame. Even Merlin is ladder on frame.
Tata's monoque SUV was supposed to be the X2, or was it X3? I don't know the exact name.
Maybe Tata abandoned the X2/X3 and came up with the brilliant idea of Aria, in a market where people do not buy minivans, even if sold by Mercedes/BMW etc.,
If you look at a vehicle like Aria, its actually priced fine for a mature market. But in a market where minivan like designs are considered "taxi" influenced something like Aria will have a hard time finding takers.
Now XUV has come, Aria will face even tougher competition.
As for the Merlin, now Tata has to price it at safari levels. How many people will go for a face lifted safari VX (costing 12L for 2WD) when similarly equipped XUV costs less?
Remember, already lot of people buy Scorpio over the safari, which is , frankly speaking, not as good looking as the safari.
Now you have a new kid on the block. the people who were paying 13.XX for 4x4 VX now have an AT vehicle.

And I saw some comments on offroadability etc., but remember, barely 1-5% of safari customers are 4x4 owners, and out of that maybe 1 in 10 do offroading.
As for trail driving (ladakh etc,) innova can also do that, so XUV will do that just fine.

Tata has a big headache on their heads, unless mahindra increases XUV price by 2 lakhs a few month after launch (I suspect it will be slightly over 13.00 after a few months)
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Old 30th September 2011, 09:59   #977
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by v1kram View Post
Is it a typo or you really meant it?
AFAIK, ARIA is doing in three figures every month (apart from one month) and for that category it is doing in decent numbers.
It was a typo. I meant four figures. However, I do not think it is doing decent numbers. It is struggling around the 200 mark. Anyway, this is a Merlin thread and I don't want to OT. Let's wait for the Merlin pricing and then talk.
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Old 30th September 2011, 14:11   #978
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Agree with Tanveer here.

At this price point and features the XUV500 is a sure shot competition killer no matter if the Merlin comes now. (unless they keep the pricing real low).

And the ARIA is nowhere near competition, too high price, now that the market can see XUV with near same features.

Lets not forget that the Safari + modifications = Merlin, XUV500 is a totally new design.
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Old 30th September 2011, 14:25   #979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu
Agree with Tanveer here.

At this price point and features the XUV500 is a sure shot competition killer no matter if the Merlin comes now. (unless they keep the pricing real low).

And the ARIA is nowhere near competition, too high price, now that the market can see XUV with near same features.

Lets not forget that the Safari + modifications = Merlin, XUV500 is a totally new design.
I agree with Tanveer too. But let's also not forget that the prices of the XUV are introductory, and we don't know what it will be priced at once the offer ends. Which is why all this talk about Tata having to revise the prices of all their vehicles from the Aria downwards is extremely premature, and is dragging the Merlin thread off onto a tangent about price discussions.

No news from Pal for a while. What's cooking?
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Old 30th September 2011, 14:47   #980
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeluM View Post
I agree with Tanveer too. But let's also not forget that the prices of the XUV are introductory, and we don't know what it will be priced at once the offer ends. Which is why all this talk about Tata having to revise the prices of all their vehicles from the Aria downwards is extremely premature, and is dragging the Merlin thread off onto a tangent about price discussions.

No news from Pal for a while. What's cooking?


If you check the thread listed below, you'll see that there's a difference of more than 2.5L between the ex-showroom prices for the top end variants [2WD and AWD] of Aria and XUV500.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2525907

I am sure M&M are not that suicidal a company that they would increase prices by 2.5L and negate whatever advantage they have built up with their intro pricing strategy. The price difference between Aria and XUV500 would remain quite substantial even if they increase prices by 50k over a period of 6-8 months.

That is precisely why I totally agree with tsk1979 and dadu when they imply that TML really need to take some hard decisions w.r.t pricing of the Merlin now.

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 30th September 2011, 15:08   #981
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

What it takes for them to lower the price? IMHO Safari should start near to 6 lakh figure. With the current equipment level, 6 lakh is sufficient. In US Toyota Highlander starts at $28000. If same vehicle come to India, it will be priced between 30 - 40 Lakhs .

I feel XUV price is right price to the value and all other cars including Scorpio/Safari are high priced vehicles in India. This should spark war of prices and ultimately the consumer will benefit. Remember, no manufacturers are doing favour to Indians by lowering prices. Prices are much much lower in many other markets in the world. It is question of pricing right.

So, Tata Merlin Price should be between (If it is replacing Safari)

Tata Merlin Lx: ~6,00,000.00 Rs.
Tata Merlin Vx: ~9,20,000,00 Rs.

And Tata Aria prices should be betwen:

Tata Aria Lower Version: ~ 9,50,000.00 Rs.
Tata Aria Higher Version: ~ 13,00,000.00 Rs.

Amin...

Are you listening TATA? Otherwise consumer will say OK, TATA, BYE BYE.

Last edited by anujmishra : 30th September 2011 at 15:12.
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Old 30th September 2011, 15:37   #982
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

So any insider information now on when the Merlin is going to be launched. XUV must have set up some sort of major 'hulchul' at TaMo.

Merlin launch is pretty much the only piece of the puzzle pending before all wanna-be SUV buyers go for the XUV without a second thought.

Cheers
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Old 30th September 2011, 17:27   #983
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
Disagree. Nano is not what Tata is using to build their premium/brand image - though Nano has certainly helped them to demonstrate their engineering/packaging capabilities. It's the Aria which Tata is using to prove that they can deliver a "premium" vehicle with quality.

Also, the "failure" of Aria is greatly overstated. Does every Tata vehicle have to be selling in 1000+ numbers to be considered a success? Please compare the Aria sales to the similarly priced competition - you will find that in most months, the Aria manages to outsell almost everything (Captiva, Yeti, Endeavour) except Fortuner. Which means people looking for a Rs.15-20L vehicle find a good value proposition in the Aria (features/quality-wise). That's the "vote" of the market looking for a Rs.15-20L car. People looking for a Rs.10-15L vehicle will naturally look elsewhere.
Well, let's agree to disagree Flagship vehicle according to me is the vehicle which people associate the vehicle with. Cost has nothing to do with being a flagship product else Kizashi would be the flagship vehicle of Maruti.
I agree that Captiva, Yeti and Endeavour are not selling in good numbers but I never called them a success. You can afford to have low number if you are going the CKD route, but running an assembly plant with such low numbers is going to be very difficult.
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Old 30th September 2011, 18:35   #984
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
What it takes for them to lower the price? IMHO Safari should start near to 6 lakh figure. With the current equipment level, 6 lakh is sufficient. In US Toyota Highlander starts at $28000. If same vehicle come to India, it will be priced between 30 - 40 Lakhs .
NEAR APPROPRIATE PRICES. Old LX buyers within recent 24 months should be refunded of fleeced excess amount

but in reality Tata has foolishly inflated their Vista above 6Lakh price band now

Last edited by GTO : 2nd October 2011 at 12:07. Reason: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post; a long quote inconveniences our mobile users
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Old 1st October 2011, 04:18   #985
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

I believe Tata will wait till 2012 for XUV500s price increments before launching the Merlin. This will enable them to do a few things:
  • Have an Auto Expo launch thus more attention
  • The increased XUV500 prices will give it more room to play with.
  • Discount and finish existing Safari stocks.
But the XUV500 launch will teach Tata important lessons. Had the Aria been initially launched in 2WD variants at lower introductory prices it would have clocked far better sales figures and created positive vibes in the market. It would have also got a good lead time over the XUV500. Now instead people view it as slow seller while the XUV500 hogs the limelight.

They get another opportunity to set the record straight with the Merlin.
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Old 1st October 2011, 09:57   #986
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

But then again like a Safari/Aria fan on this forum commented, Tata makes more money per car so they are happy selling lesser cars. Kind of like Ferrari :-)

It is amazing how fans of a certain brand will try to give a positive twist on a bad situation.
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Old 1st October 2011, 12:27   #987
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
But then again like a Safari/Aria fan on this forum commented, Tata makes more money per car so they are happy selling lesser cars. Kind of like Ferrari :-)

It is amazing how fans of a certain brand will try to give a positive twist on a bad situation.
That's too good addict, I really like it. Yes, no one wants to get beaten up in the war of arguments. Arguments are arguments and no one can say it is wrong or right.
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Old 1st October 2011, 12:30   #988
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
I believe Tata will wait till 2012 for XUV500s price increments before launching the Merlin. This will enable them to do a few things:
  • Have an Auto Expo launch thus more attention
  • The increased XUV500 prices will give it more room to play with.
  • Discount and finish existing Safari stocks.
But the XUV500 launch will teach Tata important lessons. Had the Aria been initially launched in 2WD variants at lower introductory prices it would have clocked far better sales figures and created positive vibes in the market. It would have also got a good lead time over the XUV500. Now instead people view it as slow seller while the XUV500 hogs the limelight.

They get another opportunity to set the record straight with the Merlin.
I agree, In light of the XUV500, specifically the VFM the XUV500 represents and speaking from a buyers point of view (a view obviously shared by many), TATA really needs to seriously rethink the merlin.

Only two ways I can see the merlin surviving is, significantly lower price tag and interior space (where I think the XUV500 is a let down).

If I were in TATA's shoes, I'd just scrap the merlin and focus on a more deserving safari successor.
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Old 1st October 2011, 15:45   #989
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Anyone from TATA pls let us know whether Merlin will have 4L or it will be a soft-roader like XUV.
Atleast to me this is only thinng for which I am ready to wait for another 1-2 months for Merlin otherwise I am booking XUV
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Old 2nd October 2011, 16:36   #990
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Comparison of Merlin viz-a-viz Safari to put things in perspective and clearity....
and for those who want to pit it against XUV5OO..

Click to enlarge
Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90-merlinvssafari.jpg

Last edited by dinesha : 2nd October 2011 at 16:51.
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