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Old 2nd October 2011, 16:48   #991
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by dinesha View Post
Comparison of Merlin viz-a-viz Safari to put things in perspective and clearity....

Click to enlarge
Looking at it from the side/ front profile, anyone can make out that its a Safari with some cosmetics.

Now who will be willing to pay more price for these hideous silver door handles and front chrome grill cladding which looks totally out of place and the wheel underneath, I wont!!.

It doesn't make sense, unless Merlin is the only model available and Safari discontinued at the existing (now lower due to XUV competition) price point.
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Old 2nd October 2011, 17:05   #992
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Now XUV500 is the price police jeep for Tata Aria/Safari/Merlin and other 10-15 Lakh priced sedans
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Old 2nd October 2011, 17:20   #993
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Aah I can help you there, as per insiders info the door handles will be body colored. Its still the same body panels but whats different are:
  • Built on the Aria X2 chassis
  • Improved drivetrain
  • New suspension set up
  • Both resulting in far better handling and driveability
  • New better interiors
  • ABS with rear discs
Now this definitely makes it a lot better than the present gen Safari. Now how good it is vis a vis XUV500 is a debate one can only make after Tata launches it. No doubt the XUV500 is all new, a monocoque, new looks (the pros and cons of either are debatable), feature packed and to top it all terrific value for money.

What will decide the Merlins fate will be how Tata decides to price it. Cheaper than the XUV500, then I believe its game on!!
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Old 2nd October 2011, 17:41   #994
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

If Merlin has to be a volume seller then Tata must offer 7 seater all front facing with dececent boot space for family journeys. Features must exceed XUV and more importantly Price must be significantly lower to XUV as it is not brand new design. Top end Merlin 4x2 variant with alloy wheels, fabric seats must be not exceeding 9.75L if it has to make some volumes.
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Old 2nd October 2011, 17:53   #995
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
What will decide the Merlins fate will be how Tata decides to price it. Cheaper than the XUV500, then I believe its game on!!
Pricing is key. Tata is making a huge margin on flogging a 10 year design, although a very good one. Merlin maynot be able to fight the XUV500 but atleast, it can take sales away from higher end Scorpios.

I am surprised that they have put chrome cladding and other bells and whistles, but not thought about offering a front facing third row which is available in all the Land rover vehicles with third row seating.
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Old 2nd October 2011, 18:02   #996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread
Aah I can help you there, as per insiders info the door handles will be body colored. Its still the same body panels but whats different are:
[*]Built on the Aria X2 chassis[*]Improved drivetrain[*]New suspension set up[*]Both resulting in far better handling and driveability[*]New better interiors[*]ABS with rear discsNow this definitely makes it a lot better than the present gen Safari. Now how good it is vis a vis XUV500 is a debate one can only make after Tata launches it. No doubt the XUV500 is all new, a monocoque, new looks (the pros and cons of either are debatable), feature packed and to top it all terrific value for money.

What will decide the Merlins fate will be how Tata decides to price it. Cheaper than the XUV500, then I believe its game on!!
Does the current Safari have ventilated front discs? Is there a significant difference in braking performance with ventilated discs vis-a-vis solid ones? I ask because it doesn't anywhere say that the XUV has ventilated discs in front. I believe the Safari does - though please correct me if I am wrong.

Without the bells and whistles, I think at Hari's estimated pricing the Merlin will still find buyers. But if they really want a best seller, they'll wait for Mahindra to revise their prices and then launch at the current Safari prices with a reasonable feature list, but with the current Safari 4x4 setup. What say?
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Old 2nd October 2011, 18:19   #997
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by harimakesh View Post
If Merlin has to be a volume seller then Tata must offer 7 seater all front facing with dececent boot space for family journeys. Features must exceed XUV and more importantly Price must be significantly lower to XUV as it is not brand new design. Top end Merlin 4x2 variant with alloy wheels, fabric seats must be not exceeding 9.75L if it has to make some volumes.

Hi!!

As Harimakesh and most Bhpian's have pointed out , not only the pricing but also ,what is being offered is a key factor.

There are two things which come to my mind that Tata Motors should consider before they launch Merlin Vis-a-vis XUV-

aa)Look at the tremendous response, drama , anxiety that XUV has generated and all that has turned in to a gala booking session wherein people have put in money even without a test drive. Tata Motors now exactly know the mantra of a successful launch , taking clue from the XUV.

bb)They have delayed the launch,as I got to read in the forum itself. The earlier launch was for the coming festive season.May be they knew what the XUV would be like ?? and what whey would be pitching Merlin against?? Or may be its a wait and watch approach??

The above is purely my 2 cents and my opinion . I have seen the Merlin being tested extensively on NH4 and found it zippy and should be great as from what I have seen.
But one thing I dint like is the way these Merlin test drivers drive . They are definitely a hazard on road .

Cheers,
Naj
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Old 2nd October 2011, 23:50   #998
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by naj View Post
Hi!!

But one thing I dint like is the way these Merlin test drivers drive . They are definitely a hazard on road .

Naj
Even I have observed that. I think they are over bothered about escaping the lenses of photographers. Due to this, they are not thinking about safety of other vehicles around , which is wrong IMO.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 01:11   #999
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The Merlin is going to be another softie. Pal mentioned it in his Post. Hence I suppose one Can be certain that the low ratio gearbox will not be on offer. With the existing model continuing along with the merlin, a customer is only left with option of buying the current gen 4*4.

The Safari is a tall suv, due to it's design the safari is not a aerodynamically efficient design as compared to other softies like captiva, xuv. While the latter softies can sustain serious speeds, the safari struggles to attain speeds above 140, and cruise at those speeds. The engine gets loud, and one really feels on the the edge. It was never built to dash across the Tarmac at speed. The xuv on the other hand can easily maintain 140 kmph. The point iam trying to make is the bulky safari or merlin Lacks the aerodynamic efficiency, which makes it slower that all the softies in the Market today.

With that being the case, the merlin exterior has undergone some cosmetic changes, but the huge bulk of the car largely remains intact. With no changes in engine and torque figures remaining the same, the merlin might not be able to transform into a true softie nor will is retain the character of the safari. The situation for tata's is " damned if you do and damned if you don't". One solution is to remap the engine to get more power, something on the lines of Hyundai Santa fe, lofty figures like 190+ bhp, and 420 nm of torque. With this kind of an engine config along with all the mechanical upgrades will help the merlin keep pace with the xuv and other popular softies. With the increased torque and an awd system it might still manage decent offroad duties. To match the competition things like ESP, hill climb and decent, inbuilt sat nav, blue tooth module, curtain airbags, better audio system, maybe a roof mounted DVD player, automatic climate control to name a few must also debut in the merlin. The list is exhaustive but the xuv has set the bar high. If it falls short on features the customer is more that likely to go for the xuv. The merlin might just end up akin to an old lady with cheap looking new makeup, which is far worst that the overdone look the ladies at mahindra managed with the xuv.

Another solution is to retain the low ratio gearbox which is now a unique selling point for the tata's for the price range that they have.

I don't know what's going to happen, but I would hate to see a good life style product like the safari/merlin turn into another dud.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 01:36   #1000
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

I don't understand why its taken Tata so long to get new models of the Safari, it can't be lack of resources or technology, it has to be will and after the XUV launch and a very lazy effort with Merlin it is not looking good for Tata.

There are far more expectations of them that what they are currently delivering. In between a couple of years ago there was a really good design of Prima but apparently that was killed. That's the kind of thing that excites the market and reinvigorates the brand and creates expectations. How can we have a 10 year old model still expecting to sell in 2011. Taking the consumer for granted and going slow of innovation is not a recipe for success.

Tata always had the more sophisticated image than Mahindra but their entire line is looking tired, jaded and out of place in today's market place. they need a refresh, new designers, new technology and deliver what we expect from the brand, the company and the leadership.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 12:57   #1001
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
The Merlin is going to be another softie. Pal mentioned it in his Post. Hence I suppose one Can be certain that the low ratio gearbox will not be on offer. With the existing model continuing along with the merlin, a customer is only left with option of buying the current gen 4*4.
I think this was the only thing for which I wanted to wait for Merlin, even from sources I heared the same thing that there is now plans for Merlin 4x4, they had not even made a prototype for same. If PAL is also confirming the same thing then I don't see any point in waiting for Merlin maybe I will book an XUV today.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 15:29   #1002
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pal View Post
right...

1) First up, the doubts of diluting the character by the reduced wishbone travel. Well dont sweat. If anything that may dilute the Safari feel are the korean looks-my strong opinion. Mechanically, it is, by DNA an sUv!

I cant see how the Merlin will turn into a softie and there is no insider info claiming the same. Its still built on a ladder frame chassis like pucca off roaders and I am sure it will be sold with 4x4 and a low ratio option. They already offer this on the Safari so in all probability should be present on the Merlin.
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Old 7th October 2011, 18:46   #1003
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by raul View Post
I don't understand why its taken Tata so long to get new models of the Safari, it can't be lack of resources or technology, it has to be will and after the XUV launch and a very lazy effort with Merlin it is not looking good for Tata.

There are far more expectations of them that what they are currently delivering. In between a couple of years ago there was a really good design of Prima but apparently that was killed. That's the kind of thing that excites the market and reinvigorates the brand and creates expectations. How can we have a 10 year old model still expecting to sell in 2011. Taking the consumer for granted and going slow of innovation is not a recipe for success.

Tata always had the more sophisticated image than Mahindra but their entire line is looking tired, jaded and out of place in today's market place. they need a refresh, new designers, new technology and deliver what we expect from the brand, the company and the leadership.
IMHO, the self-imposed hiatus from TATA in new launches maybe related to the quality issues and niggles which most products from their stable have faced till now. Frankly, their name has indeed gotten a real beating due to these issues and it is best they refrain from introducing half-baked products in to the market. It was high time, they took this step and if they can solve the quality issues, it will go a long way in reinforcing their name.

At the same time, it is very important that they do this in the shortest possible time.
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Old 9th October 2011, 22:30   #1004
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Not sure if the rear look of Merlin did come up in this thread, if not, this is how it is.

Name:  Tata-Safari-Merlin-2011.jpg
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Size:  27.6 KB

It does have freelander-ish look.

Edit: Just realized that it is a Sumo next to it; so this was taken at the same place where over head shot was taken.
Pic Source: FB

Last edited by Spinnerr : 9th October 2011 at 22:49. Reason: Added an aftrer thought
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Old 9th October 2011, 23:31   #1005
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

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Originally Posted by condor View Post
And another example about 4x4: Sumo 4x4 is available on only in the lowest variant. Not any of the higher levels. Though, 4x4 was available on the higher variants of Sumo earlier
Wasn't aware either that Sumo is available in 4x4. Can you give some details?

Thanks
OS
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