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Old 23rd November 2011, 13:03   #1231
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

@ACM & @ra'ul @smsrini

I think you guys are missing the point. I don't think anybody is saying that Merlin will be a bad product, and I am sure all of us have a *friend* who test drove the XUV and decided to wait for the Merlin. Personally, I would do the same as well.

However, if Tata prices it like the Aria, it will be doomed. I am sure your two friends will buy it, but we are discussing the general market here. Not one friends decision to buy a Merlin.

You have to realize that despite being an inferior product, Scorpio outsells the Safari 4 to 1, the XUV is a vastly improved product and Safari will be pretty much dead, and we will have to see if Merlin can hold the 1000 a month numbers or will be come direct competition for the Pajero 2.8 (in sales numbers not price), i.e 2 to 300 units a month.

Basically to sum it up the success/failure of Merlin will depend on how Tata prices it.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 23rd November 2011 at 13:05.
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Old 23rd November 2011, 13:23   #1232
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
@ACM & @ra'ul @smsrini

Basically to sum it up the success/failure of Merlin will depend on how Tata prices it.
I agree. And once they price it well, they would also have to create a lot of buzz around it. I maybe very wrong in my thinking here. But the general public has sort of moved on from Safari. Yeah it still looks good to them , they find it's macho looks appealing. But thats it and perhaps maybe a little more.

IMO, as a Safari fan/well wisher/owner/repeat-owner/prospective future buyer, my counsel to TML would be to first get the product execution right. It should be a reliable and a robust product to the last screw tightened. Second. Some basic product attributes need to be improved on. Weight reduction, shorter turning radius are some points that come to my mind instantly. Third. Price correction to reflect the new realities post XUV launch. Fourth. After the above three things are done (), let every damn car buyer know that what you have produced is the best out there. And let them know that again and again.

Last edited by rrsteer : 23rd November 2011 at 13:27.
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Old 23rd November 2011, 14:26   #1233
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
@ACM & @ra'ul @smsrini

I think you guys are missing the point. I don't think anybody is saying that Merlin will be a bad product, and I am sure all of us have a *friend* who test drove the XUV and decided to wait for the Merlin. Personally, I would do the same as well.
I went through a lot of posts and there are enough comments that imply Merlin will be a bad product, sales dud etc. Also, I drove the XUV and not a *friend*

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
However, if Tata prices it like the Aria, it will be doomed. I am sure your two friends will buy it, but we are discussing the general market here. Not one friends decision to buy a Merlin.
I am discussing the cars only. Period. The sales of a particular car does not really matter to me as long as the product is good and is serviced well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
You have to realize that despite being an inferior product, Scorpio outsells the Safari 4 to 1, the XUV is a vastly improved product and Safari will be pretty much dead, and we will have to see if Merlin can hold the 1000 a month numbers or will be come direct competition for the Pajero 2.8 (in sales numbers not price), i.e 2 to 300 units a month.
The XUV is indeed a vastly improved product and deserves the sales it's generating. My point is why do you compare it with the Safari/ Merlin? Is it because the two companies are traditional rivals?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Basically to sum it up the success/failure of Merlin will depend on how Tata prices it.
True. And that factor is certainly helped by the XUV pricing.
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Old 23rd November 2011, 15:13   #1234
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by smsrini View Post
Put the Spare wheel back on the door or behind the rear door on a separate mount.
Significantly improve the plastics, fit & finish.
Shed about 100kilos, of body weight. Aluminium bonnet, doors, roof, tailgate
Improve the front suspension quality
Implement the facelift - nose, headlamps, bumper, fenders.

and you have a winner on hand!

cheers!
If they do not do any of this, but just make a reliable vehicle where less than 1% owners have issues(small or major) it will sell.
Every second or third owner of the Safari has an ownership thread full of mails to Tata motors about this failed or that failed.
This is true for their "flagship" product Aria also. They have to realize that for quality people are willing to pay that extra price.
A fortuner costs twice as much as the Safari, while offering nothing more, except promise of reliability.
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Old 23rd November 2011, 17:08   #1235
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
@ACM & @ra'ul @smsrini

I think you guys are missing the point. I don't think anybody is saying that Merlin will be a bad product, and I am sure all of us have a *friend* who test drove the XUV and decided to wait for the Merlin. Personally, I would do the same as well.

However, if Tata prices it like the Aria, it will be doomed. I am sure your two friends will buy it, but we are discussing the general market here. Not one friends decision to buy a Merlin.

You have to realize that despite being an inferior product, Scorpio outsells the Safari 4 to 1, the XUV is a vastly improved product and Safari will be pretty much dead, and we will have to see if Merlin can hold the 1000 a month numbers or will be come direct competition for the Pajero 2.8 (in sales numbers not price), i.e 2 to 300 units a month.

Basically to sum it up the success/failure of Merlin will depend on how Tata prices it.
Agree totally on what you say,
Success will indeed depend upon price among other things.
We do need to see if the current Safari itself can hold numbers to the Combination of Scorpio and XUV let alone the New Safari (Merlin).
The friends of the kind that I mentioned atleast will possibly in numbers be a smaller lot. Possibly just as like the number of people who like the Idea of the Thar out here - not getting into the vehicle itself out here. A different set of customers may actually be picking it up.

Except the small bit that,
I don't think that we are/ I am missing the point - we all have different take and different points that we are getting across.

It is just that the Safari has been positioned in a certain manner (for good or for bad, intentionally or due to circumstances created by the Scorpio is not really in question.) Infact Scorio never initially got into the Safari market share it just created a more VFM vehicle a 1/2 segment lower and more people went for the vehicle at that price point. It is finally us that tend to club the two in the same category especially considering that most alternatives for a long time came at twice the price point.
The Merlin which is likely to be the new Safari - just by looks - may or may not excite / appeal to people as much as the the older Safari. It may or may not actually be a better quality product than the XUV. There are too many uncertain elements.

Since we have already been asked by the mods once to stick to the topic, would like to say that reports and views are inconclusive on the above. And Pricing absolutely not known. M&M sprang a big surprise on the price front when the XUV came out, TATA may or may not do that. We will know in time. Similarly we may or may not fall in love with the New Safari looks all over again and it may evoke passions with certain people or may not hard to tell clearly from a camoflaged vehicle.

If certain things are so apparent to us they would be to those at TATA as well, and it is expected that they take care of that.

Lets wait for some better snaps and better details of the interiors. Unfortunately however much we may be able to figure out overall how the vehicle would be roughly in appearance and specs and even quality through some one here or there seeing / snapping it, we will possibly never know till launch the pricing aspect - unless someone really sneaks really valuable inside info out.

I guess now we are looking earliest at a Jan release. Lets wait it out.
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Old 23rd November 2011, 17:22   #1236
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

A different take so a separate post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If they do not do any of this, but just make a reliable vehicle where less than 1% owners have issues(small or major) it will sell.
Every second or third owner of the Safari has an ownership thread full of mails to Tata motors about this failed or that failed.
This is true for their "flagship" product Aria also. They have to realize that for quality people are willing to pay that extra price.
A fortuner costs twice as much as the Safari, while offering nothing more, except promise of reliability.
TSK I really don't know, Indian market is a hard one to understand.

Yes no doub't there is no question about the expectation that less than 1% of the owners / vehicles should have issues.

But how exactly to do as a 5 reflect the masses who buy vehicle, I guess TBHP members and posters are really a bit (or a lot) more passionate and aware about cars and they possibly do have higher expectations and when things do not go as per our expectations (which could be higher) we do voice it out. So yes while all manufacturers would should have a clean experience even for even people more aware / passionate about cars, and yes while we need to be fanboys to not acknowledge that TATA vehicles do have among the higher rate of having issues compared to others. Yet the % in masses terms would not be as skewed as on the forum simply because a lot of what we feel are issues are very livable for the lot. [That does not stop us from wanting higher quality standards].

So while the Fortuner is an incredibly reliable vehicle with almost no niggles and superb service compared to the Safari and possibly to some extent to the Aria as well. Many who went in for the Safari 10-13 years back for 8-11L would not have been able to afford a Safari even if it was at say 14-17 lacs vs the Fortuner at 22 odd (even if the more expensive Safari or slightely cheaper (for the time) fortuner been available then. I guess there is a place for the Scorpio and Safari as well even with some niggles especially if they get the pricing correct and quality is workable even if not bang on. - Things definately are improving for all the Indian brands over time. Fast enough or not is another debate.

Thus Just a slightly different take on the %ages.

Now so in summary so that we do stick to the topic the relavence of the same rant with the New Merlin is that overall people have to feel it is VFM relative to the price it offers and the quality promisse that we see it delivering upto (we will never know for sure at launch).
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Old 24th November 2011, 01:37   #1237
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
From whatever we've seen of the Merlin, I have a feeling that Tata cannot take the fight to the XUV with this vehicle. If the XUV's price stays at similar levels (after the intro. pricing is over, say no more than a 40K increase), the freshness of that product would trump the Merlin's overhauled Safari design. My strategy would have been to simply replace the Safari with the Merlin (still call it Safari), then come out with a completely new version whenever it's ready. While Safari has had a lot of niggles, there's still some halo around the brand (Safari, not Tata) with the less automobile inclined. It might be a good idea to invest in that brand.
, ideally Merlin should be pitched against the Scorpio but as many Scorpio VLX customers are themselves moving in for XUV, guess merlin top end 4X2 would also be pitched against w6. There is an overlapping segment here.

But somehow i feel if merlin is priced at what current safari is 7.95 onwards there would be a lot of churning of potential xuv customers going in for merlin. Its a gut feel, no market research to back up my theory.
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Old 24th November 2011, 18:10   #1238
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaks15 View Post
But somehow i feel if merlin is priced at what current safari is 7.95 onwards there would be a lot of churning of potential xuv customers going in for merlin. Its a gut feel, no market research to back up my theory.
I feel that tata must not only price merlin on par with XUV but also increase the customer experience. Mahindra has the so called purple club / relationship manager for XUV who is someone like a personalized representative for M&M. Tata must have a similar concept for Merlin, IF they want to compete with XUV. I doubt because, when tata did not bother for a 20 lac vehicle (Aria) why would they do that for a vehicle which costs half as much.
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Old 25th November 2011, 08:49   #1239
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Request mods to close the thread till some concrete news evolves from TML itself regarding Merlin.

A lot has been speculated about the vehicle, but there is still no official news about the vehicle or any new launch from Tata.
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Old 25th November 2011, 10:11   #1240
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajess_in View Post
Request mods to close the thread till some concrete news evolves from TML itself regarding Merlin.

A lot has been speculated about the vehicle, but there is still no official news about the vehicle or any new launch from Tata.
+1

All the fluffy talk and speculation is only doing one thing ..hogging bandwidth.
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Old 26th November 2011, 00:29   #1241
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Thread closed until some solid info comes along. If anyone has concrete information to share, please "report this post" and the thread will be reopened.

Last edited by GTO : 26th November 2011 at 13:38. Reason: Adding a line. Thanks
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Old 24th December 2011, 08:18   #1242
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Arrow All-New Tata Safari Merlin caught fully undisguised!

Pics of the all-new Tata Safari caught completely undisguised. Official unveil at Auto Expo in Jan.
Source
Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90-6559623927_5618336f78_b.jpg

Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90-6559623511_15a27367f0_b.jpg

P.S: The original thread appeared locked, hence creating this new one to post the pics. Please move to the original thread if found necessary. Thanks.

Last edited by Scorcher : 24th December 2011 at 08:19.
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Old 24th December 2011, 08:28   #1243
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Default

Awesome stuff!!!, looks like they are doing a video shoot, with the bars on the bonnet. Expect a commercial soon.
Jan Auto EXPO is expected for lot of actions, hope they get the price right

Last edited by arvindmanju : 24th December 2011 at 08:34.
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Old 24th December 2011, 10:58   #1244
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Default Re: All-New Tata Safari Merlin caught fully undisguised!

The car looks CLASSIC to me! Although the front Chrome treatment could have been better. But, the overall looks are better than any Safari produced till date for me, this I am saying after owing a TCIC Safari and a DICOR (currently).
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Old 24th December 2011, 11:10   #1245
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Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Superb! But why does it have the name Safari instead of Merlin?
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