Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th December 2011, 00:32   #1306
Team-BHP Support
 
suhaas307's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,055
Thanked: 6,601 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by koushik View Post
Suhaas it is the overall diameter of tyre which is taken in to account. Merlin seems to be already very tall and while selecting tyre size this factor is also taken in to account. The tyre size 235/75R15 has been judged digitally looking to the spy pictures.The actual tyre size could be different.But certainly it does not seem to be 17" .
Well, going by current standards, the logical step would be 17" wheels. Considering that the current Safari runs on 16"(?) But only time should tell, I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
I still hope they are giving us a much better product. They seem to have put in so much effort & testing across the continents. Logically, if the guts are new, then why not a new skin too ? It does not make sense to move 2 steps ahead in the engine/GB area, and then just do a partial refresh of the body. And this is what is making me skeptical !
Exactly!

I completely agree with your opinion, and that's what I've been trying to say. If they have changed the SUV completely underneath, then why not take a little time out and get a proper design-team to whip up something extraordinary, instead of the same old bottle with new stickers and labels. Which makes things even more skeptical, IMO. Why would Tata change a whole lot on the inside if they haven't bothered much with it on the outside. Me thinks this is just a big face-lift rather than an all new SUV.

Tata could have really taken the battle to Mahindra. but they have missed a trick or two. I hope I'm forced to eat my words, honestly!
suhaas307 is offline  
Old 27th December 2011, 01:07   #1307
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ludhiana
Posts: 525
Thanked: 207 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

From Exteriors this car really looks a Generation ahead of the current Safari, especially its styling with Sharp lines is giving it a completely new character now.
For me, I liked its Trapezoidal Exhaust end pipes the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y@SH View Post
Lastest spy shots during the ad shoot. Also posting a pic from AI, of an interior shot because it hasnt been posted on this thread yet.
Thanks once again for the pics.
Though its Interiors looks really Classy with much Improved design & fake Wood Inserts but don't you thing its Gear lever is too long & Spindly, against shorter one of the Current 2.2 VTT Safari & Stereo position is too angled(like Bolero).
Definitely not seems to be a LR Design Input.
CRtorquefan is offline  
Old 27th December 2011, 01:11   #1308
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,449
Thanked: 6,431 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
If they have changed the SUV completely underneath, then why not take a little time out and get a proper design-team to whip up something extraordinary, instead of the same old bottle with new stickers and labels.
Probably they didn't want their hands full with two entirely "new" models at the same time [Aria & new Safari]. Probably what if this is a test run before bringing in the completely new Safari [feed-backs]? I can't really see any other reasons for this. They could be running more and more testing with the platforms to be used in the future Safari. To me, this seems quite logical. Safari is an aspirational brand with the max scores for the looks. So they might have wanted to retain the looks till the ALL-NEW-SAFARI hits the road in a couple of years time. Probably this is the first step towards a completely niggle free product. I would rather like TATA to take baby steps than start running without the foundation in place - see where the Aria has landed!

I had so much expectation from Aria - has not worked out. Hope at least the Merlin brings in total confidence in the brand.
swiftnfurious is online now   (1) Thanks
Old 27th December 2011, 10:17   #1309
Distinguished - BHPian
 
jkdas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Thiruvananthapu
Posts: 9,661
Thanked: 1,389 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

The best part is that they avoided that chrome work! Phew!
Now, what is that thing on which Tata logo is now placed? Could have avoided I guess.
I also see new alloys/rim!

And hope they have added disc brakes for the rear.
jkdas is offline  
Old 27th December 2011, 11:32   #1310
ACM
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ACM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,152
Thanked: 2,457 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
From Exteriors this car really looks a Generation ahead of the current Safari, especially its styling with Sharp lines is giving it a completely new character now.
For me, I liked its Trapezoidal Exhaust end pipes the most.
Yep had me wishing that they had given those on the Aria as well. So here is something that the Aria could take from the Safari rather than the other way around.

Oh! for a proper integrated infotainment system in the Safari.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I think this was a problem more on the older lot. The newer lot with the hydraulic stabilizer thingy at the bottom did not have the same issues from what I have heard. Safari owners could confirm.

Anyways so many other SUVs have the spare wheel on the door. Safari is not the only one. Even the relatively flimsy Gypsy does. So I'm sure they could have solved the issues once and for all and still left the wheel there.

It looks rally bland without it. I wouldn't be surprised is some enterprising fabricators/workshops make a fast buck with a "devolution" reverse fix once this is launched! You could then boast of having two spare wheels instead of just one ....
Nope the problem persits the wt of the spare wheel gets the rear door rattling even on the current Safari. The safari door by itself is also quite heavy and the tyre and rims are also much larger than in the case of say the Gypsy. Besides moving the tyre down helps lower the centre of gravity and give the car increased stability so there are additional benifits as well. most of the SUV's worldwide are going down this route.

The two spare wheels idea is tempting but in the real world would only make sense of a hard core offroader or rally championship but as a daily ride lugging such a large extra wheel around for the looks would not be too smart. - Though must acknowledge it does get the mind thinking.

The other thing is that when they remove the spare wheel the new door hinges etc may be of a lighter design as they do not need to cope up with the extra wt.

Last edited by .anshuman : 27th December 2011 at 20:22. Reason: Back to back posts merged. Thanks
ACM is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 27th December 2011, 12:31   #1311
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,942
Thanked: 3,178 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Nope the problem persits the wt of the spare wheel gets the rear door rattling even on the current Safari. The safari door by itself is also quite heavy and the tyre and rims are also much larger than in the case of say the Gypsy. Besides moving the tyre down helps lower the centre of gravity and give the car increased stability so there are additional benifits as well. most of the SUV's worldwide are going down this route.

The two spare wheels idea is tempting but in the real world would only make sense of a hard core offroader or rally championship but as a daily ride lugging such a large extra wheel around for the looks would not be too smart. - Though must acknowledge it does get the mind thinking.

The other thing is that when they remove the spare wheel the new door hinges etc may be of a lighter design as they do not need to cope up with the extra wt.
What about the Sumo (old) type design where the spare wheel is not really mounted on the door directly but onto a pipe frame mount that swivels separately at the same door pivots?

I was assuming that a retrofit of the entire older Safari door (and hinge) assembly would be possible. The shape looks exactly the same .... would need to check out the exact dimensions of course. Not to mention cutting and welding on a brand new car.

If the chassis of the Merlin is the same as the old (current) Safari, and not the new Aria platform as some are imagining, then how do they accommodate the wheel at the bottom?

Assuming that ground clearance would remain the same, this would necessitate a pretty significant "well" - which would then in turn significantly impinge on the already compromised sitting height (floor to roof) for the two unfortunate passengers in the rear.

This is one thing no one has been able to properly report on in any of the "spy" sightings going around all over the Internet.
ebonho is offline  
Old 27th December 2011, 12:36   #1312
ACM
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ACM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,152
Thanked: 2,457 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
What about the Sumo (old) type design where the spare wheel is not really mounted on the door directly but onto a pipe frame mount that swivels separately at the same door pivots?

I was assuming that a retrofit of the entire older Safari door (and hinge) assembly would be possible. The shape looks exactly the same .... would need to check out the exact dimensions of course. Not to mention cutting and welding on a brand new car.

If the chassis of the Merlin is the same as the old (current) Safari, and not the new Aria platform as some are imagining, then how do they accommodate the wheel at the bottom?

Assuming that ground clearance would remain the same, this would necessitate a pretty significant "well" - which would then in turn significantly impinge on the already compromised sitting height (floor to roof) for the two unfortunate passengers in the rear.

This is one thing no one has been able to properly report on in any of the "spy" sightings going around all over the Internet.
They shift the fuel tank further ahead closer to below the middle row seats. - possibly remove the spare jack from that place and shift it to the rear section on one of the inside side panels.

The Old Safari door actually may fit but it will really not be worth it.

The sitting height need not necessarily be compromised with proper packaging as in the Aria with the tyre below as well - of course it has a longer rear section.

Going back to the sumo way of doing things does not seem a be a nice idea. for the new safari.
ACM is offline  
Old 27th December 2011, 12:37   #1313
BHPian
 
Ranga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 319
Thanked: 41 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Look wise its a big let down . After XUV , customers expectations is on Cloud nine . Not sure why TATAs don't want to learn from there earlier mistakes .
First it was Aria
Second the Sumo Grande design .
Third its now Merlin .

Strongly feel there needs to be a thought process change in the top ( TATA Motors ) for designing new cars in India
Ranga is offline  
Old 27th December 2011, 12:54   #1314
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DL9C
Posts: 2,521
Thanked: 2,252 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranga View Post
Look wise its a big let down . After XUV , customers expectations is on Cloud nine . Not sure why TATAs don't want to learn from there earlier mistakes .
First it was Aria
Second the Sumo Grande design .
Third its now Merlin .

Strongly feel there needs to be a thought process change in the top ( TATA Motors ) for designing new cars in India
Looks is a department where you can't please everyone. It's a very subjective thing.

I think TATA is learning from its mistakes. Trying to iron out the niggles by testing it as much as possible is surely a good sign. Whether they have been successful or not, time will tell. As far as Aria is considered, I don't think it was the product that lacked, rather the pricing did it in.

Overall, it's not as bad as I thought it would look. Waiting for the official launch and prices now.
Dry Ice is offline  
Old 27th December 2011, 13:18   #1315
BHPian
 
Ranga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 319
Thanked: 41 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
Looks is a department where you can't please everyone. It's a very subjective thing.

I think TATA is learning from its mistakes. Trying to iron out the niggles by testing it as much as possible is surely a good sign. Whether they have been successful or not, time will tell. As far as Aria is considered, I don't think it was the product that lacked, rather the pricing did it in.

Overall, it's not as bad as I thought it would look. Waiting for the official launch and prices now.
I totally agree what u say on looks . Can't please every one . If u carefully look at the new cars launched from TATA there are lot of similarities .

It started with Manza . The same look was copied in Aria , Indica V2 designs .

They have not been able to come out of the design cycle and look at a fresh prospective .

If u see cars like XUV , its been a fresh thought prospective ( Again some like and some don't like )

We should appreciate the new thought process of design from the new vehicle launch.

Imagine u wait for a Merlin to arrive for 2-3 years and it looks & feel like a old design ( Same old engine 2.2 , no changes , Same old gear ratios with no changes what so ever ??? )
Ranga is offline  
Old 27th December 2011, 13:21   #1316
Team-BHP Support
 
suhaas307's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,055
Thanked: 6,601 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranga View Post
Look wise its a big let down . After XUV , customers expectations is on Cloud nine . Not sure why TATAs don't want to learn from there earlier mistakes .
First it was Aria
Second the Sumo Grande design .
Third its now Merlin .

Strongly feel there needs to be a thought process change in the top ( TATA Motors ) for designing new cars in India
I believe it's a good thing that Tata is refraining from outlandish designs and sticking to handsome and clean lines on all their cars. None of their cars' designs are offensive in any way, although the same can't be said about the XUV. While the XUV is a striking car with some handsome bits, I believe that they've gone a little overboard, with the hair on the front grille (seriously looks un-shaved ) and the motif on the brake-lights.

The Aria is a good looking MUV. Like a modern looking Tatafied Innova in some ways. But that only makes it look like a minivan and not a proper SUV. The Safari has always looked good, even after a decade and a half of existence. While the Scorpio needed umpteen face-lifts, the Safari only needed finishing touches and garnishing every now and then, and it still looked great.

But it's time is over now. And I was expecting another new, handsome and inoffensive looking SUV. More importantly, 'NEW'.

But it looks like a face-lift and that's what is disappointing.

However, if they have done well to iron out the niggles and improve its internals, I'm sure it would still be a great product.

But I'm still going to wait for an 'all-new-SUV' and it seems to me that my wait will continue.
suhaas307 is offline  
Old 27th December 2011, 13:34   #1317
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DL9C
Posts: 2,521
Thanked: 2,252 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranga View Post
I totally agree what u say on looks . Can't please every one . If u carefully look at the new cars launched from TATA there are lot of similarities .

It started with Manza . The same look was copied in Aria , Indica V2 designs .

They have not been able to come out of the design cycle and look at a fresh prospective .

If u see cars like XUV , its been a fresh thought prospective ( Again some like and some don't like )

We should appreciate the new thought process of design from the new vehicle launch.

Imagine u wait for a Merlin to arrive for 2-3 years and it looks & feel like a old design ( Same old engine 2.2 , no changes , Same old gear ratios with no changes what so ever ??? )
We can't single out TATA in that case, VW, Hyundai, Mitsubishi come to my mind immediately. In fact, everyone seems to be addicted to the 'family-look' concept these days.

All I can say is, lets wait for the official launch and official test drive by the mods to ascertain whether it's still the old engine, old gearbox or have they improved on it.

EDIT:

Let's also not forget, this is just a face lift for the Safari and not a completely new iteration. And IMO, they have done well in terms of just a face lift.

Last edited by Dry Ice : 27th December 2011 at 13:38.
Dry Ice is offline  
Old 27th December 2011, 17:24   #1318
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: LA <--> Bombay
Posts: 459
Thanked: 132 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Talked to my dealership's guys on the upcoming Merlin when I went for my Aria's test drive before registration. They say that the Merlin is now quite similar to the Aria and the Tata folks have heavily taken their learnings from the Aria and put in in the Merlin.

Also, prices are going up from Jan 1 on most of the models but they said that the Merlin would be well priced taking the competition in consideration.

Cheers
sahakar is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 27th December 2011, 18:03   #1319
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 1,477
Thanked: 158 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaks15 View Post
Pic in an email I received from a friend telling me this is the final version, no more changes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohandasnikhil View Post
Here's some pics of the Safar running tests that I had caught on the Pune Highway. Putting them up now, cos the thread was locked earlier
The front of the Safari looks great and the TATA have done a very good job in getting this vehicle and hope they do not mess it up by pricing it high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y@SH View Post
Source: GOW , Autocar India

Lastest spy shots during the ad shoot. Also posting a pic from AI, of an interior shot because it hasnt been posted on this thread yet.
I just hope the new advertisements are good. I still remember the old safari ads, what fun! Still love seeing them on youtube specially Reclaim your life & Lines.
Man the Safari looks like an Wagon R from the back without the Spare wheel mounted at the back, never expected such kind of look on the Safari.
gowda79 is offline  
Old 28th December 2011, 10:56   #1320
Senior - BHPian
 
raj_5004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dubai/Mumbai
Posts: 5,078
Thanked: 2,031 Times
Default re: Tata Merlin - Safari replacement? *UPDATE* Uncovered Pics on Pg 90

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
Let's also not forget, this is just a face lift for the Safari and not a completely new iteration. And IMO, they have done well in terms of just a face lift.
When TATA had a new platform to work with, it could have gone all the way & come up with an all new model instead of just a new face on the same 14 year old design.

No doubt, the ride MAY be better, dash MAY be better, NVH MAY be better, etc... but then why the same body?
raj_5004 is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Toyota Fortuner Facelift Spied! *UPDATE* Uncovered pics on Pg.6 aravind.anand The Indian Car Scene 361 21st December 2011 10:58
New Audi A8 uncovered sidindica The International Automotive Scene 25 25th November 2009 14:17
Uncovered: Audi A7 5 door coupe sidindica The International Automotive Scene 3 21st November 2009 22:49
[pics] 20-year old Corvette uncovered with 3300 miles on it Vert1go The International Automotive Scene 78 11th June 2009 08:13
Renault Megane III Caught Fully Uncovered aaggoswami The International Automotive Scene 13 11th September 2008 18:12


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 00:54.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks