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Old 16th December 2005, 12:01   #16
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Originally Posted by islero
Alto and Zen do have crumple zones. Indica too. 800 dosent.
You know what... The funniest part is even the newer 800 is supposedly having crumple zones! Although Maruti says so indirectly in an article on passenger safety (quote: all maruti cars have crumple zones... unquote) there is a straight reference to it in another article (Ref: http://www.cybersteering.com/cbmain/...s/mar800n.html). It becomes apparent then that all other Maruti cars, zen, alto and any other will also "have them".

However the fact is that in a vehicle which is small and resultingly as cramped as a 800 is or even the Zen is how effective are the crumple zones? Is there any data available as up to what speeds those are effective in case of a collision? I suspect for 800 it won't be of use beyond 15/15 Kmph and simlarly for Zen it won't be beyond 20/20 Kmph.

Even Indica with those huge crumple zones and which has been extensively tested in India's only integrated Crash Test facility with simulations and real crashes using crash test dummies is safe upto 60kmph impacts. That will be a max of 30/30 at symmetric speeds!

Last edited by Zappo : 16th December 2005 at 12:03.
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Old 16th December 2005, 12:11   #17
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Originally Posted by dceite
hmmm.. thanks Zappo. The last article is from officiale TATA website, and at laaaaaast i see the word "crumple zones". Much relieved now .. So then, all it needs is some airbags, and voila, you have the Safest small car in India!.. Swift beware!...

Now the next big question is Zen. Does it have em?
Thats true. Indica is already the safest car in its category. Why, Indica even comes with airbags, albeit you have to import such a version from abroad You know why the Indica's (not the two spoke versions) steering boss is designed the way it is? Bcoz they are designed to accomodate airbags.

Maruti's and others get hampered for two reasons. One is that they have not undergone any real life crash test. That is a known fact. (Even the Mahindra Scorpio has not for that matter). So there is nothing to validate the crash impact on the crumple zones even when they have them. Second problem is that of the size. Indica is roomy... just peer inside that huge engine bay. or for that matter the inner paddings and the panels. For most other cars there is so much lesser space to play with. That directly impacts the crash worthiness of the vehicle. If the Indica has those flared panels on all sides it is not just for the looks (that they look musculine is an additional bonus)...
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Old 16th December 2005, 12:32   #18
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dceite, the Tata indica sells in Europe. So It needs to meet the basic safety requirements.
Infact the side impact protection is amazing(Have been hit by a high speed 800). As for frontal impact the car holds on pretty well too. Rear impact safety is also impeccable.

From the safety point of view its one of the best cars in this segment, definately better than wagonR or Santro.



Thats mine just after the crash with a santro. After the hit the santro was on its roof. the imact was side/front mix as you can see the car slightly bent towards the left side(The hit was from drivers side, on the bumper, like a scrape. Me at around 20-30kmph at time of hit, santro around 50-60)

Last edited by tsk1979 : 16th December 2005 at 12:40.
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Old 16th December 2005, 20:29   #19
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Hi,

Here are pics of crumple zones of corsa which i am currently driving:





Pictures taken by SE T610.


Last edited by abhibh : 16th December 2005 at 20:31.
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Old 18th December 2005, 15:37   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo
You know what... The funniest part is even the newer 800 is supposedly having crumple zones! Although Maruti says so indirectly in an article on passenger safety (quote: all maruti cars have crumple zones... unquote) there is a straight reference to it in another article (Ref: http://www.cybersteering.com/cbmain/...s/mar800n.html). It becomes apparent then that all other Maruti cars, zen, alto and any other will also "have them".
My M800 manual mentions on page "0-2" : "Your vehicle has monocoque body construction which provides for certain crumple zones in the body which absorbs larger part of the impact enegy......."

but still...these "crumple zones" won't be as effective as those on other more modern cars!
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Old 3rd July 2007, 19:21   #21
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I have a doubt here: Can the 1-lakh car from Tata possibly have crumple zones? I know that Tata makes some really safe cars but can it provide them at this price? I heard that it will have a metal body only. Does that mean no crumple zones?
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Old 3rd July 2007, 21:27   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Thunder View Post
I have a doubt here: Can the 1-lakh car from Tata possibly have crumple zones? I know that Tata makes some really safe cars but can it provide them at this price? I heard that it will have a metal body only. Does that mean no crumple zones?

Crumple Zones, contrary to popular beleif, is not an add-on feature, it is generally accounted for at the time of design of the structure itself. It does not cost extra to accomodate in the design but needs consideration so that controlled deformation in case of collision can happen.

So any new car will have crumple zones if "designed" properly.
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Old 3rd July 2007, 23:36   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Thunder View Post
I have a doubt here: Can the 1-lakh car from Tata possibly have crumple zones? I know that Tata makes some really safe cars but can it provide them at this price? I heard that it will have a metal body only. Does that mean no crumple zones?
Take a straw and mount springs at the front and back. Now bump it into a wall and watch what happens. The springs absorb the impact and dissipate energy before it reaches the straw and the straw is not affected. Now if there were no springs, the straw would ahve absorbed the impact and deformed. That is the basic idea of crumple zones as you may already know.

When it comes to cars, the springs are replaced by mild strength steel in the engine bay and boot while the occupant space and chasis is reinforced by high strength steel. This means that you will need some unused space in the engine bay for the front section to 'crumple' and doesn't incur any extra cost.
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Old 3rd July 2007, 23:55   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islero View Post
Alto and Zen do have crumple zones. Indica too. 800 dosent.
This is a very old post but still wanted to clear it

Even the old very first generation Maruti 800 that came out in 1983 HAD crumple zones!! It is specified in the user manual!! How effective it would be who knows.

The user manual explicitly instructs the owner not to fit any extra add on bumpers in front as it could impair the effectiveness of crumple zones.
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Old 4th July 2007, 00:29   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
This is a very old post but still wanted to clear it
Even the old very first generation Maruti 800 that came out in 1983 HAD crumple zones!! It is specified in the user manual!! How effective it would be who knows.
The user manual explicitly instructs the owner not to fit any extra add on bumpers in front as it could impair the effectiveness of crumple zones.


thats great. Didnt know that.

Hmmm, coming to think of it, remember the MASS guys telling not to have crash guard in M800 cause it would not be good in case of accident.
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Old 4th July 2007, 00:31   #26
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Yup the 800 does have crumple zones and so does the zen. But its effectivity cannot be compared to more modern cars. Also side impact beams are very weak in the 800 and zen.
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Old 4th July 2007, 00:35   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post


remember the MASS guys telling not to have crash guard in M800 cause it would not be good in case of accident.
The crash Guards, the way they are fitted in the after-market, would direct the impact at members that are not designed to bear the first impact. Infact the front Bumper should always take the first impact and deform to absorb some of the forces.

However, having said that, one really gets to think about the Adventure, it has the front crash guard as standard , but I guess it is designed to transfer inpact to the front bumper rather than the sub-frame (but thats just a guess).
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Old 4th July 2007, 20:32   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayavi View Post
When it comes to cars, the springs are replaced by mild strength steel in the engine bay and boot while the occupant space and chasis is reinforced by high strength steel. This means that you will need some unused space in the engine bay for the front section to 'crumple' and doesn't incur any extra cost.
I see. So does this mean that the crumple zone of the Jeh(or whatever the 1-lakh car might be called) can be made as effective as a more expensive car, say the Indigo or the Logan? Or do they use different materials throughout the monocoque?
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Old 5th July 2007, 07:59   #29
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I am not sure that "crumple zone" are a "feature" in the normal sense of the term. The designer of the car takes this factor into consideration while creating the design. It is not a blank or vacant piece of real estate inside your car - it is a design feature, which enables the body of your car to collapse before the impact of collission reaches you. In India, sicne head on collisions account for lesser number of fatalities (so far), and fatalities from side impact have been more, the regulatory framework concenterates more on the side impact beams rather than crumple zones.
The Hindu Business Line : Crumbling in, for your safety
Please understand that merely having big cars does not mean that the car has a crumple zone.
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Old 7th July 2007, 17:03   #30
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Crumple zones are almost very common in all cars. and they do help in case of a severe accident. take the case of this swift, see how the car has crumpled along its designated crumple zone, and its tyre has projected face down towards and outwards to the road indicated in red circle area. the crumple zone is marked in white.



and sorry the bad image quality, i was driving when i took that!!
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