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Old 23rd November 2010, 17:59   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
but I'll have to stick with SUV for the sake of my sanity.
Ah, your post reminded me of your Grand Vitara. It's got balanced road manners too. If only MUL offered a diesel and interior quality worth the price.

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Originally Posted by Kairalee View Post
I often feel that many SUV owners dont have a real logical reasons
Just to make my intentions clear : I am NOT deriding anyone who bought any SUV for whatsoever reason. Not every Porsche owner does 300 kph on a daily basis, and neither should all SUV owners be expected to rough it out every weekend. The main intention of the opening post is to make the advantages & disadvantages amply clear. Fact is, a modern sedan is the better / more enjoyable choice for most out there. If you don't need the 3rd row of seats or rough road package, a sedan will keep you more satisfied. There's a reason why my garage doesn't include an SUV yet. It may when the need arises, but for sheer driving pleasure on the open road, I'm happy with my sedans.

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
In the West (and thanks to Jairam Ramesh, even here!) SUVs are associated with gas guzzling and therefore inherently bad for the environment.
The 8 cylinder American SUVs are guzzlers. But the 9 - 10 kpl Scorpios hardly so. Nope, I don't think the diesel Indian SUVs are guzzlers at all.

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Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
Then an idiot on a bike bumps into it (while we were standing still) and scratches the passenger side front and rear doors. 2 days later another idiot gives a foot long scratch on driver's side rear bumper.
Do you think SUVs don't get scratched?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
This is where the cars like Foresters score.
The Forester has left me surprised with its ability on broken roads. For a certain BHPian on the Indian rally circuit, it's a favourite for recces. The Forester could go further than most wannabe SUVs can, and with panache. Too bad that it never really got a great engine under the hood.

Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate-dsc01377.jpg

Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate-dsc01649.jpg

Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate-dsc01654.jpg

Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate-dsc01663.jpg

Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate-dsc01725.jpg

Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate-img_3463.jpg

Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate-img_3522.jpg

Last edited by GTO : 23rd November 2010 at 18:01.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 18:00   #17
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I think majority of buyers are stuck between head and heart. Heart says Fortuner, Head says Superb/Laura/Accord. Well for obvious reasons i.e. Size of the vehicle, luxury feel etc. If only there were bigger city roads in India, we could have seen relatively more SUVs.

Last edited by Vibhanshu : 23rd November 2010 at 18:02.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 18:02   #18
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For super smooth highways its surely Sedans 1up on SUV's but that's not all. A vehicle is often bought on a no. of counts, which includes City run-abouts, highways usage, people haulage, bad roads, farm-house trips, holiday jaunts, etc.

Now, Sedans make a lot of sense specially if seating is limited to 2-4 occupants. Enter another perspective, "The great Indian roads & conditions" & suddenly sedans start appearing as most un-suited. Why, bumper to bumper traffic, typical Indian family sizes(huge), carry a lot of luggage around, condition of roads in majority of Country are poor, flooding after drizzling, etc, etc. & the list could go on.

Also, like OP mentioned, "Image : Who doesn't want to look cool? A macho SUV can give your social standing a massive boost". Now, why do many people buy sedans? Just for that "I own a big car" image. So, on image, I think its a toss-up between the two depending what one wants to portray, "muscle" or "status".

An SUV's running costs(fuel) would be equal or less than a petrol sedan. While sedans are safer than SUV's, as opposed to OP's views.

How often do we get a chance to explore that 0-100 timings, traffic on our roads is already maddening & most would not want to get entangled with Law where the bigger car is always considered to be at fault.

I don't see the tech. advancement is sedans, they've remained almost the same for decades. SUV's use the same tech. but do cost more.

Sedans are a foreign concept, the legacy of the erstwhile British empire. They were never developed/designed for Indian road conditions. We are yet to develop the for India vehicles. Typically a vehicle with high ground clearance, seating for 5-7, low on maintenance, cheap spare parts, high mileage, etc. suits our Country the most. Now, this could be called an SUV or a MUV or a cross-over.

Hatches actually make infinite more sense than sedans but we tend to choose the later because of the "image" factor.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 18:07   #19
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@GTO : Nothing better than this post. Thanks for this.

As you pointed out both are equally good and have their own preferences. But in the India which we are living in today an SUV is better.The roads are broken, the traffic is very unregulated and the people who trouble you is generally the TATA cars(sorry Mr. Tata). The Wingers, the magics, The Sumos are the main trouble makers with some Cows and Sheeps(of course some pigs also!) making up to the amazing experience we have on the road. Oh and how can we ever forget our great Cycle Villagers who are trying their level best to find some space for themselves after all we are crossing their village and not the other way around!

Now the sedans here are not the best option. The braking arguing is good but the current generation Suvs are not far behind. The safety factor is obviously more since in the worst case scenario at-least you can be safe in your seat.

The city driving is dominated by the auto wallahs and the motor cycles who think they are Casper the friendly ghosts who can get out of any bit of space available and by chance if their invisible bike gives some scratches "senorita in bade bade sheron main aisi choti choti batein toh hoti rehti hain" but this sentence suddenly becomes "sorry bhaiya" when in an SUV.

So my vote is a definitive SUV (I dont own even a single SUV yet but i vowed not to buy a Sedan again!)
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Old 23rd November 2010, 18:12   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
For super smooth highways its surely Sedans 1up on SUV's but that's not all. A vehicle is often bought on a no. of counts, which includes City run-abouts, highways usage, people haulage, bad roads, farm-house trips, holiday jaunts, etc.
I do all kinds of highway driving and my sedans serve me just as well. Of course, I don't encounter rough roads too often, and its a fact that Indian highways are improving by the day. As mentioned in the opening post, if you frequently travel on completely destroyed roads (as Samurai does), an SUV is the better choice. I don't and hence stick to my sedan.

Quote:
Now, Sedans make a lot of sense specially if seating is limited to 2-4 occupants.
True. None of my cars - save for the Indigo - can seat 5 comfortably.

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Now, why do many people buy sedans?
If you need a boot, which most Indian families do, a sedan is the default choice. How many hatchbacks have 400 - 500 liter boots again?

Quote:
An SUV's running costs(fuel) would be equal or less than a petrol sedan.
Apples to apples please. If you want to compare diesel SUVs, do so with diesel sedans (there is no dearth of them in any segment). A diesel sedan is way more fuel efficient. And last I checked, C segment sedans are way more reliable than Safaris & Scorpios too.

Quote:
How often do we get a chance to explore that 0-100 timings, traffic on our roads is already maddening & most would not want to get entangled with Law where the bigger car is always considered to be at fault.
Not everyone goes drag racing everyday. However, a faster can will be:

- More enjoyable to drive
- Complete overtaking manouveurs quicker and hence, safer

Quote:
I don't see the tech. advancement is sedans, they've remained almost the same for decades.
Compare a 10 lakh sedan to a 10 lakh SUV and you'll know what I'm talking about. Start with the feature list, the T-Jet's rear disc brakes or the Ventos beautifully calibrated suspension. The Safari & Scorpio can only dream on. The Fortuner's interiors are similar to an Innova...sit in one, and then jump into a Skoda Superb. Also, please show me a 15 lakh SUV with DSG gearboxes or paddle shifts. Heck, show me a 10 lakh SUV that has the fit & finish of an everyday C segment sedan.

Quote:
Sedans are a foreign concept, the legacy of the erstwhile British empire. They were never developed/designed for Indian road conditions.
Sorry to say, but this statement completely lacks logic. 99% of India commutes in hatchbacks & sedans. Somehow, they are managing to do so perfectly well. There is nothing "foreign" about the sedan concept.

Last edited by GTO : 23rd November 2010 at 18:14.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 18:23   #21
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My consideration for an SUV were

1. Family/Group travelling.
2. With a driver, Sedan becomes cramped for a family of 4.
3. Less driving strain - In sedans back of the mind you always concentrating for Pot holes, Speed arresters etc while in SUV you can simply enjoy driving immaterial of road condition.
4. Safety - My family feels very safe travelling in SUV. They are ready to go any where in it.
5. Road respect - Bigger vehicle gets more road respect.
6. 50% of non metro roads are bad - SUV is ideal.
7. Discover Hills - Places like Leh needs a SUV.
8. Off roading - SUV is a must.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 18:28   #22
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Thanks GTO.
U made the decision for me. Was swinging between a Scorpio, Tjet and a Cedia.
Had a bone jarring experience while driving down to Mangalore and was sold about the Scorpio. But then that was only a 50km patch. the remaining 900 kms was tarmac! Driving the Scorpio in Pune can be quite a task!
Cedia sadly is out because of the iffy Mitsubishi attitude. One never knows when they will discontinue something! Amazing car though.
I think the Tjet is the one. anyways I am done with diesels.
The Tjet review was really good too. If a review can make a car desirable this was it!
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Old 23rd November 2010, 18:39   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I do all kinds of highway driving and my sedans serve me just as well. Of course, I don't encounter rough roads too often, and its a fact that Indian highways are improving by the day.
I was speaking of the majority of Indian population who have to deal with broken, no or very rough roads frequently.

Quote:
If you need a boot, which most Indian families do, a sedan is the default choice. How many hatchbacks have 400 - 500 liter boots again?
I was again talking of majority of people. Most of the boots go un-used or used very sparsely.

Quote:
If you want to compare diesel SUVs, do so with diesel sedans (there is no dearth of them in any segment).
SUV's make sense in diesel & are as efficient as petrol sedans.

Quote:
Not everyone goes drag racing everyday. However, a faster can will be:
- More enjoyable to drive
- Complete overtaking manouveurs quicker and hence, safer
Some people enjoy driving an SUV more than a Sedan, so that would be a personal choice.

SUV's give a better view of the road ahead & so we could say "safer".

SUV's are not bought because they are fast but because they serve different purpose.


Quote:
Start with the feature list, the T-Jet's rear disc brakes or the Ventos beautifully calibrated suspension. The Safari & Scorpio can only dream on. The Fortuner's interiors are similar to an Innova...sit in one, and then jump into a Skoda Superb. Also, please show me a 15 lakh SUV with DSG gearboxes or paddle shifts. Heck, show me a 10 lakh SUV that has the fit & finish of an everyday C segment sedan.
So, tech. advanced just because of "features"! Remember there are many useless features too. Bottom line is the your car should brake right, discs or no discs doesn't really matter. Safari, Scorpio come with ABS optional, many sedans untill late did not offer ABS as an option. Skoda & its features, I think everybody knows about that story, features need to work all the time & not urge the user to drive the car to the garage before making use of them. Just the presence of a few more features does not make a car more tech. advanced. Tech. advancement should make a car reliable first, rest comes later. Not the case with Skoda, as everyone knows.

Quote:
Sorry to say, but this statement completely lacks logic. 99% of India commutes in hatchbacks & sedans. Somehow, they are managing to do so perfectly well. There is nothing "foreign" about the sedan concept.
"Logic", that's unique to everyone! Even before the advent of cars, people were somehow managing & managing good. So, its not just about managing I guess! I would still stick to "copy the British" concept that Indians follow & this is carried on to car purchase too.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 18:48   #24
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I think the reason I am going to stick to SUVs is because of the flexibility they offer.

1)No doubt the Safari cannot hold a candle to our Honda City's road dynamics, but it is the vehicle we count on when we have to do a Jalandhar - N.Delhi to and fro in a single day (yes - thats 950 odd kms in less than 20 hrs). And yes the NH1 is under construction with lots of diversions but is still a road sedan lovers can enjoy on.

2) An SUV is also the best family vehicle. It has the capacity to bring the family together like no other. Last year I did a trip to the Jalori pass in HP from Jalandhar with my father, my mother, my wife , my sister, my uncle, our bags and baggage and me all nicely tucked inside the Safari. We had a blast of a trip. And the best part of the holiday was when we were on the road munching miles, exploring hills cocooned together inside the warm (it was winter) and comfortable confines of our Safari. And just for this ability of a SUV, I am willing to sacrafice a hundred times the better driving dynamics of any sedan.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 18:56   #25
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Excellent thread! Even I was debating the same with myself. Please do consider the riding comfort for tall people, people with back problems and elderly who have a difficult time entering and exiting a sedan.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 19:05   #26
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I guess the reason why GTO started the thread itself states why folks want best of both worlds in these current trends as symbolized by the Yeti.

Many folks (including me) may not need three rows of seating. But a 5 seater with an amazing boot space, coupled with a powerful engine, and high GC would be ideal. All this with a compact proportion of size would make one ideal city and highway vehicle. A 4x4 is some thing which many wont need.
All folks need for most cases is powerful beast with high GC to tackle Indian roads.

A Yeti 2WD would be an ideal example. RAV4, RVR etc all together can make this an amazing segment starting at 11-12L and topping at 15-16.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 20:04   #27
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An excellent thread!!guess it had to come before but anyways...

This is exactly the same question i had in my mind a few months back-should i go for the driving pleasure of a sedan or the 'bad-road'ability of an suv?Coming from the same place as Samurai, the point in favour for suv is really strong!!the roads here are nothing short of hopeless and once monsoons come, the situation just worsens!!

I finally opted for a sedan simply because i enjoy driving and no suv, including soft-roaders come close to sedans in driving pleasure!true you cant enjoy it once the roads get bad after monsoons but when you do get to enjoy driving, you really can enjoy much better in a sedan!!

Personally an suv is best for the macho image and for its ability to scare autos, bikes etc from coming in your way-this is an important factor in India!!also if your commute includes bad roads for most of the time of the year, again it makes sense!also if the space factor is important!but for all other reasons a sedan is anyday better
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Old 23rd November 2010, 20:18   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I'm seeing a large number of queries in our "What car?" sub-forum inquiring about SUVs. The justification usually given is highway driving. BAAH, I say. Nope, I don't buy that reasoning at all. Sedans are faster, efficient and immensely more satisfying to drive, especially on the highway.

Which is safer?

Well, the debates wide open on this factor. A sedan's superior handling & braking capabilities will help you avoid that accident in the first place. Plus, SUVs are prone to roll over too. On the other hand, you can't argue with sheer size & metal. In a head on collision between a Captiva & a Cruze, or a Safari and an Indigo, I do feel occupants of the former will suffer less injury.

The best of both worlds:

Crossovers are based on sedans, yet styled as SUVs. Cars like the Yeti / CRV / Outlander are nearly as much fun to drive as their sedan siblings and bring some SUV advantages too. However, in many areas, they are neither "here" nor "there". For instance, these crossovers lack the sheer ruggedness & offroad ability of SUVs. Plus, due to their weight, they aren't as quick or efficient as sedans. Of course, it doesn't help that they cost more than their sedan siblings either.

SUMMARY

In a nutshell, buy an SUV only if you need the three rows of seats, rough road package or AWD. But for all things else, there is no substitute for the driving pleasure that a powerful sedan or hatchback can give you.
Thanks GTO. Very well analysed and logically put forth by you.This a very debatable topic and so many pros and cons will prop up in almost every post.
Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate-dsc02958.jpg

Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate-dsc02957.jpg

Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate-dsc02960.jpg
(all pictures from my collection)
Now in the pictures above, one can see what the high centre of gravity and ground clearance can result into, once let loose!
For me the plain reason it has to be a SUV is for the fortress like feel,ruggedness,brute looks and the macho feeling these offer to the driver and safety these offer to the family members seated.
I have learnt driving on jeeps and have extensively driven them for years at a stretch for long distances.
Owning cars for many, many years made me miss everything the jeep had to afford and which had become a habit with me.
Now with my new Scorpio, I am back on my old saddle, even though I still own two cars. No matter what the Hon'ble Union Minister of State for Environment and Forest may label me as- even a criminal, but I must fulfil my wishes!
I would recollect the fact that a SUV during an impact, hits a car at the window or upper door level. The bumper of the SUV is perched at that level on an average. The SUV passengers are seated high above and hence the chances of car/sedan passengers being seriously/ injured/maimed in the event of a collision with a SUV are far greater.
And GTO your last word about crossovers reminds me of the Honda Street or the Hero Winner, which were neither motorbikes or scooters.
But these two wheeler crossovers are nevertheless very popular in the SE Asian markets.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 20:26   #29
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@GTO, A look at the state of highways in kerala would explain why many would go for a SUV. Some road craters are more punishing on the vehicles than offroading.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 20:31   #30
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I've only one reason to state, I prefer an SUV in India because, bigger my car, louder the horn, I get right of my way.

If it were somewhere in the west, I certainly prefer a sedan or even a small car.

PS - People will even start yielding way with an additional flag in the bonnet & a golden numbered reg plates

Last edited by aargee : 23rd November 2010 at 20:34.
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