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Old 25th July 2012, 00:31   #376
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

wow! so Jetta is probably the safest amongst the cars i have mentioned probably. and I anticipated that. knew that Jetta being VW and German, would definitely have impeccable build quality. and so does Laura for that matter.

I somehow have this doubt about XUV from beginning. since the first time I saw it, that how safe it would be given the fact even the front wheel arches, bumper etc are made of fibre. though most bumpers are made of fibre today but the ones in fortune, endy etc look far more tough.

anyways... also saw 2012 Innova's interiors today. looked pretty well built and robust and good. the car looks good inside-out. specially the new metallic blue shade. but chances are you can be mistaken for a driver if self driving! so out of question.
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Old 25th July 2012, 07:00   #377
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Originally Posted by vb-san
but in my understanding there is no other car in this range /segment which offers that. And on the Jetta, you get all the safety features which is available on the versions sold abroad (UK, AU etc.), which is not quite the case with other cars in the sub-20 lakh segment.
It is only the Germans who give all the Euro spec stuff and charge for it. Even Toyota Altis comes only with front airbags. And the Fortuner at 27 lacs on road doesnt have the side curtain airbags!
Even Toyota is short changing the Indian consumer!
In the sub 20 lac segment even the dear old Yeti has all the safety kit and more!
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Old 25th July 2012, 07:41   #378
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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My point of view is- if the something jumps in front of you at speed, in SUV if you swerve the chances of rollover are extremely high, while a low slung car's will be much more likely to stay in control.
Why should you sverve at high speed at all? Safest thing to do is to brake, use engine braking and continue in a straight line as far as possible. Indian highways are notorious for being unpredictable. If you sverve to avoid, you may be hit by a tailgaiting vehicle, you may go offroad, may hit a stone, the moving object you wanted to avoid may backtrack and come on to your path (believe me its a common behaviour with the villagers who run back and forth across a road). Be it a sedan, SUV or even a bike, please be safe and try to your best to brake, but do not put your life at risk by trying out other avoiding manuvers.
Yes whatever car you have, ABS/EBD will help you continue steer and you may gently steer while braking, away from the intruder.
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Old 25th July 2012, 08:04   #379
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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wow! so Jetta is probably the safest amongst the cars i have mentioned probably. and I anticipated that. knew that Jetta being VW and German, would definitely have impeccable build quality. and so does Laura for that matter.
In the end it boils down the personal preferences. Check out these vehicles in contention personally, do the research, and arrive at a decision. If you really want a bit of SUV like practicality and close to sedan-like road manners, Yeti probably is the right option.

If I am in the market within this space, I will limit my choices into the VAG trio (Jetta, Laura & Yeti), and the Fluence E4.

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
It is only the Germans who give all the Euro spec stuff and charge for it. Even Toyota Altis comes only with front airbags. And the Fortuner at 27 lacs on road doesnt have the side curtain airbags!
Even Toyota is short changing the Indian consumer!
In the sub 20 lac segment even the dear old Yeti has all the safety kit and more!
Definitely, that’s one reason that I was always responding in favor of the European when you were evaluating it along with a used Tucson
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Old 25th July 2012, 09:48   #380
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Why should you sverve at high speed at all? Safest thing to do is to brake, use engine braking and continue in a straight line as far as possible.
In a panic situations, you respond out of reflex and don't have time/presence of mind to think and act as to what is right/wrong. Swerving (in addition to braking) is most natural instinct and when you do, sedans are definitely more stable against rolling. In fact the sun wisor on many SUVs carry caution not to indulge in sudden maneuvers (like you can do in a sedan)
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Old 25th July 2012, 10:50   #381
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by magikrider View Post
also the point you made about the horrendous after sales is something to worry about. where as mahindra guys are taking good effort to provide good after sales service.
Many here have suggested cars from VAG group & Renault. But do check out this thread before looking at any German/Czech/European car.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...rman-cars.html (PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!)

Plus there are several other threads (bad experiences) in this forum about VAG cars.

Safety is extremely important but so is reliability. In India, breaking down in the middle of nowhere can be as dangerous as having an accident. I would be more willing to put my money on top end XUV rather than any car from the VAG group.
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Old 25th July 2012, 11:39   #382
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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In a panic situations, you respond out of reflex and don't have time/presence of mind to think and act as to what is right/wrong. Swerving (in addition to braking) is most natural instinct and when you do, sedans are definitely more stable against rolling. In fact the sun wisor on many SUVs carry caution not to indulge in sudden maneuvers (like you can do in a sedan)
Thats why we practice panic braking. All good driving instuctors recommend practice. I am not debating sedan vs suv roll over possibility, however performing dangerous sverving moves on a sedan May cause fishtailing. How to cater for that? Recommending a sedan because it wont roll over does not make sense. For arguments sake suv helps you see more due to high seating so you can plan your moves better than a sedan esp in fast moving traffic
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Old 25th July 2012, 12:26   #383
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Thats why we practice panic braking. All good driving instuctors recommend practice. I am not debating sedan vs suv roll over possibility, however performing dangerous sverving moves on a sedan May cause fishtailing. How to cater for that? Recommending a sedan because it wont roll over does not make sense. For arguments sake suv helps you see more due to high seating so you can plan your moves better than a sedan esp in fast moving traffic
I agree that SUVs let you have better view and that to some extent negates the disadvantage of stability/roll over tendency.
Here is an interesting statistics
SUV Rollovers, Statistics
"SUVs will experience rollovers more than 75 percent more than regular cars. Furthermore, the NHTSA reports that despite great improvements in standards between 2006 and 2009, the safest SUVs are still more likely to rollover than the least safest sedans or coupes."
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Old 25th July 2012, 14:43   #384
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

Interesting Stat.
Whats the corresponding stat for Cross-overs?
Cheers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
SUV Rollovers, Statistics
"SUVs will experience rollovers more than 75 percent more than regular cars. Furthermore, the NHTSA reports that despite great improvements in standards between 2006 and 2009, the safest SUVs are still more likely to rollover than the least safest sedans or coupes."
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Old 25th July 2012, 14:53   #385
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Why should you sverve at high speed at all? Safest thing to do is to brake, use engine braking and continue in a straight line as far as possible. Indian highways are notorious for being unpredictable. If you sverve to avoid, you may be hit by a tailgaiting vehicle, you may go offroad, may hit a stone, the moving object you wanted to avoid may backtrack and come on to your path (believe me its a common behaviour with the villagers who run back and forth across a road). Be it a sedan, SUV or even a bike, please be safe and try to your best to brake, but do not put your life at risk by trying out other avoiding manuvers.
Yes whatever car you have, ABS/EBD will help you continue steer and you may gently steer while braking, away from the intruder.
Obviously, braking is the first option but, a lot of times you have to sverve to avoid hitting the obstacle. Hence, better handling cars (sedans) are safer than suvs. IMO, only safety advantage SUVs provide over comparable sedans is that they dont go under heavy vehicles in case of collision unlike sedans, especially in india where bumpers of trucks and buses are placed way to high for the sedans and impact is taken by cabins of sedans instead of bumpers.
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Old 25th July 2012, 16:37   #386
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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On Paper, your requirements match the XUV pretty well. But as they say, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. So you should check the XUV out thoroughly before goingi in for one. I did, and came away unimpressed by it on most counts- but thats a very personal view and your may be just the opposite.

Have you considered the Aria? suits your requirements to the T and from what we read on the forum, looks like TML is making a sincere effort to push the Aria.

It is a brilliantly engineered car, that is let down by atrocious after sales suppport.

Also, if you can extend your budget a bit, check out the Captiva. I was not even considering it as my next car, but one drive changed my view and i ended up buying it! tehre are great deals on it as of now (2L off!)
I think you got a very good deal on the captiva indeed. I just checked and was told by a dealer that only 2011 model is available and with a discount of only 25000. would come unto 23L on road approx. other dealer said they are out of stock of the current model and will have to check and see if any is still available with the plant and the discount again only 35000! so way above my budget and not worth it as its already discontinued. XUV looks way too VFM in comparison.

now again going back to the discussion we had in previous posts... would love to go with an VAG group sedan or fluence but i think maybe an SUV will be better for my requirements. Yeti, somehow i feel is too small and with hardly any road presence. and will not meet my requirements.

Last edited by magikrider : 25th July 2012 at 16:39.
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Old 25th July 2012, 18:41   #387
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Yeti, somehow i feel is too small and with hardly any road presence. and will not meet my requirements.
Have you TDed one?
If not, go and take a TD and your opinions will definitely change.

For a city like Bombay, there are very few vehicles that beat the Yeti when it comes to practicality, frugality and its ability to take on any terrain with aplomb. It looked small to me too, at the first and second TDs but now, I feel, it is the perfect crossover for 90% of us.
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Old 26th July 2012, 11:44   #388
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Why should you sverve at high speed at all? Safest thing to do is to brake, use engine braking and continue in a straight line as far as possible. Indian highways are notorious for being unpredictable. If you sverve to avoid, you may be hit by a tailgaiting vehicle, you may go offroad, may hit a stone, the moving object you wanted to avoid may backtrack and come on to your path (believe me its a common behaviour with the villagers who run back and forth across a road). Be it a sedan, SUV or even a bike, please be safe and try to your best to brake, but do not put your life at risk by trying out other avoiding manuvers.
Yes whatever car you have, ABS/EBD will help you continue steer and you may gently steer while braking, away from the intruder.
On paper the best approach is to hit brakes and wait for the vehicle to stop. But in real life scenarios, a lot of times, swerving is a safer option especially when the obstacle is too close and you know collision is imminent if you continue in straight line.

I speak from experience, having driven few lakh kilometers on all kind of roads with both ABS and non ABS equipped cars, SUVs and low slung cars. The scariest incident i remember is-

Few years back a Indicab waiting at a crossing on highway suddenly decided to cross, without considering the oncoming traffic on highway at decent speeds, in a flash the cab was in front on me and before i could think my reflexes worked, i hit the brakes in my Elantra as hard as i could and steered in the small gap between car and divider and somehow managed to avoid hitting the cab. My friend on passenger seat asked me how did i do it?, i had no answer, my body reacted and reflexes worked, i still remember the brake pedal pumping back and seat belt pulling me back.

In such a scenario, i want to be in a well behaved sedan 10 times out of 10. I have spent tens of thousands of kilometers driving Scorpio mhawk and Fortuner and i can bet none of the SUV would retain their balance in such a scenario.



Even the relatively safe handling monocoque Duster is not as safe handler as Sedans. Fortuner was infamous for roll over incidents in South Africa, following which AWD, ESP and some changes to suspension were introduced.

Last edited by .anshuman : 26th July 2012 at 11:46.
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Old 26th July 2012, 17:00   #389
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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On paper the best approach is to hit brakes and wait for the vehicle to stop. But in real life scenarios, a lot of times, swerving is a safer option especially when the obstacle is too close and you know collision is imminent if you continue in straight line.
As I said earlier I am not disputing lateral stability of a low cg car versus high cg SUV. However using avoiding maneuvers as a reason of saying sedans are better in India is not correct. Especially when people panic and perform maneuvers which are not correct for the type of vehicle they drive. A SUV cant be termed unsafe if the driver doesnt know his and his car's limits.

My take is a SUV is always preferable in India especially on highways to cover large distances swiftly and comfortably. In the city if traffic is such a major problem, then a hatchback is the best bet. A sedan is nither here nor there. Not as manueverable as a hatch, not as dominating as a SUV, not as much space as a SUV, not economical as a hatch, not comfortable as a SUV. Well these are my personal views for a SUV.
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Old 26th July 2012, 17:17   #390
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Default Re: Should you buy an SUV? The definitive Sedan vs SUV debate

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Few years back a Indicab waiting at a crossing on highway suddenly decided to cross, without considering the oncoming traffic on highway at decent speeds, in a flash the cab was in front on me and before i could think my reflexes worked, i hit the brakes in my Elantra as hard as i could and steered in the small gap between car and divider and somehow managed to avoid hitting the cab.
I have faced something strikingly similar Anshuman.
I was driving from Delhi to Bangalore and had crossed Adilabad and was driving at around 110kmph with Priti in the passenger seat.
There was a hotel on the road ahead to my left around 200-300meters ahead and a private bus reversed onto the road suddenly without any warning.
My initial instinct was to brake and stop on the left but by the time I was near the bus, the bus started to come towards my left (into the parking to align itself) and I had to steer all the way to the complete right and managed to squeeze myself into the gap between the bus and the divider. I stopped exactly between the bus and the divider.

It was pure reflexes and nothing else which saved all 3 of us.

Coming to the point, would I prefer a sedan in future? No, because I was able to control my SUV successfully and, more importantly, such situations are few and far between. What is more frequent is erring truckers/tractors/bikers/buses, potholed roads, stones the size of footballs on 4 laners, rowdy auto wallahs...the list is endless and at situations like these, an SUV gives me safety, visibility, a bit of courage to hold my ground, and most of all, practicality.
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